Gods Kingdom is now ruling. Are you one of its citizens?

[outhouse]

Jesus promised that he would return with the power of Gods kingdom. A lot of christians i imagine are still waiting for that to happen.

But what if someone told you that it has already happened and Jesus is already here ruling and changing the world?

What would be your initial response??

:biglaugh:

That covers it

 

[Twilight Hue]

Jesus promised that he would return with the power of Gods kingdom. A lot of christians i imagine are still waiting for that to happen.

But what if someone told you that it has already happened and Jesus is already here ruling and changing the world?

What would be your initial response??

My initial response would be to ask as to how is something like that is determined?

 

[Desert Snake]

My initial response would be to ask as to how is something like that is determined?

I assume from Bible verses. I'm waiting on those...but.. since I already believed that, or thought it was standard belief, it isn't like it's news to me.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I assume from Bible verses. I'm waiting on those...but.. since I already believed that, or thought it was standard belief, it isn't like it's news to me.

Wasn't the verses regarding the return of Jesus was that it would have caught the attention of the entire world? Descending from Heavan with a shout?

Aside from that, I remember as a Christian even, if someone had ever stepped forward and announced he was Jesus, would likely be brushed off, challenged through scriptures that he was not a false Christ, or asked to peform something that reflects his claim. During that time, I was expecting like many other Christians, the appearance of Christ in my lifetime, yet wondered as to what would exactly need to be done to estabilish validity that becomes certainty that such a person was indeed Jesus Christ. How would that even be approached?

 

[Desert Snake]

Wasn't the verses regarding the return of Jesus was that it would have caught the attention of the entire world? Descending from Heavan with a shout?

Aside from that, I remember as a Christian even, if someone had ever stepped forward and announced he was Jesus, would likely be brushed off, challenged through scriptures that he was not a false Christ, or asked to peform something that reflects his claim. During that time, I was expecting like many other Christians, the appearance of Christ in my lifetime, yet wondered as to what would exactly need to be done to estabilish validity that becomes certainty that such a person was indeed Jesus Christ. How would that even be approached?

I don't know, but since there is no 'break' in the rulership of Jesus in my theology, it doesn't affect whether I'm under the New Covenant or not.

For clarity, I'm a Deific Jesusist, i.e. Jesus as God, not a separate entity from the OT God.

 

[Pegg]

Do it!

What do you imagine happens with the establishment of Christs kingdom?

 

[Pegg]

My initial response would be to ask as to how is something like that is determined?

It is determined by the fulfilment of bible prophecies concerning the kingdom and by peoples response to that kingdom.

 

[Pegg]

I don't know, but since there is no 'break' in the rulership of Jesus in my theology, it doesn't affect whether I'm under the New Covenant or not.

For clarity, I'm a Deific Jesusist, i.e. Jesus as God, not a separate entity from the OT God.

Even the scriptures say that there was a gap between the Christ raising to heaven and the establishment of the kingdom:

Hebrews 10:12 But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet


The time of waiting indicates that Jesus kingdom would not begin to rule immediately following his ascension to heaven.

 

[Desert Snake]

Even the scriptures say that there was a gap between the Christ raising to heaven and the establishment of the kingdom:

Hebrews 10:12 But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet


The time of waiting indicates that Jesus kingdom would not begin to rule immediately following his ascension to heaven.

Then we were under the Old Covenant. The only way this isn't possible is if you don't think the New Covenant is a continuation of the Old...

Old Covenant--> New Covenant....Wheres the gap?

 

[savagewind]

The word waiting at Hebrews 10:13 can mean expecting and the word until can mean while. So the scripture might have nothing to do a period of the non activity of waiting. But can mean faith in God's purpose for The Earth. While he is risen he is expecting us to obey his command to disciple the nations.

 

[savagewind]

Then we were under the Old Covenant. The only way this isn't possible is if you don't think the New Covenant is a continuation of the Old...

Old Covenant--> New Covenant....Wheres the gap?

WHAT'S the gap?

 

[savagewind]

Why is it written in all scipture inspired "I tell you, he will see that they get justice, and quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8

 

[Pegg]

Then we were under the Old Covenant. The only way this isn't possible is if you don't think the New Covenant is a continuation of the Old...

Old Covenant--> New Covenant....Wheres the gap?

aren't we talking about the establishment of the heavenly kingdom?

The new covenant is the basis for mankind to approach God just as the old covenant was a basis for approaching God. But it has nothing to do with Christs kingship or the actions he will take as earths new ruler. The covenant is between God and man, the kingdom is between Christ and man.

What is your understanding of the exactly what the kingdom is and what it will do?

 

[Desert Snake]

aren't we talking about the establishment of the heavenly kingdom?

The new covenant is the basis for mankind to approach God just as the old covenant was a basis for approaching God. But it has nothing to do with Christs kingship or the actions he will take as earths new ruler. The covenant is between God and man, the kingdom is between Christ and man.

What is your understanding of the exactly what the kingdom is and what it will do?

I think the Bible explains what Christs Kingdom is, but I think He already rules, there isn't some 'changing of rulership' going on.. in fact I find that concept sort of strange, like handing over a crown or something, I don't think that the earthly rulership means that Jesus is 'waiting' for kingship.

Also, to add, the NT was written by man, yes, inspired, but man authorship is also prone to conforming to pre-existing ideas of how the Divine nature of Jesus is portrayed and other concerns. I think we need to read between the lines sometimes, for example the Deityship of Jesus, it doesn't 'happen' at a certain point, it already is established. We are going to disagree on this, I already know, because of our denominations.

 

[savagewind]

The question "are you one of it's citizens" can't be answered correctly except by Jehovah's Witnesses. According to them you must be a JW to be a citizen of God's Kingdom.

If this is not true ladies, just print a Watchtower article refuting it. If it is true, then what wrong am I doing?

 

[Pegg]

I think the Bible explains what Christs Kingdom is, but I think He already rules, there isn't some 'changing of rulership' going on.. in fact I find that concept sort of strange, like handing over a crown or something, I don't think that the earthly rulership means that Jesus is 'waiting' for kingship.

Also, to add, the NT was written by man, yes, inspired, but man authorship is also prone to conforming to pre-existing ideas of how the Divine nature of Jesus is portrayed and other concerns. I think we need to read between the lines sometimes, for example the Deityship of Jesus, it doesn't 'happen' at a certain point, it already is established. We are going to disagree on this, I already know, because of our denominations.

ok, thats ok to disagree.

But what are you disagreeing with ? is it the scripture which says that when christ was raised to heaven he 'sat at the right hand of God awaiting until all enemies should be placed under his feet'

I would just ask you that if Christ has been ruling since his ascension, what does it mean that he is waiting? What for? and for how long?

 

[Desert Snake]

ok, thats ok to disagree.

But what are you disagreeing with ? is it the scripture which says that when christ was raised to heaven he 'sat at the right hand of God awaiting until all enemies should be placed under his feet'

I would just ask you that if Christ has been ruling since his ascension, what does it mean that he is waiting? What for? and for how long?

I think Jesus was ruling before his 'ascension', hence Oneness Doctrine, and I don't think that verse means He is 'waiting' for rulership, it seems either poetic, metaphor, or simply implying His status of Most High.
Even in trinity concept it is monotheistic, how do you hand a crown over to yourself?

 

[Pegg]

I think Jesus was ruling before his 'ascension', hence Oneness Doctrine, and I don't think that verse means He is 'waiting' for rulership, it seems either poetic, metaphor, or simply implying His status of Most High.

i've never heard that doctrine before, so i dont really understand it.

But pretty much all christians have been aware of a second coming of Christ. Even the Catholic Mass has a recitation of the words: “We proclaim your death, Lord Jesus, .*.*. we await your coming in glory. .*.*. Come, Lord Jesus!”

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture states:
“That Jesus Christ .*.*. will come gloriously at the end of the world ‘to judge the living and the dead’ is as established a dogma of Catholic Theology as is the dogma that he has already come and has redeemed mankind.”—Page 835.

So its a universally accepted idea that Christ would come again...i dont know of any denomination who believes his kingdom has always been here ruling.

But with that in mind, does that mean that you dont really expect Jesus to actually do the things he said he would do? ie, Matt 25:31 “When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left....41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.



When does everlasting life begin? When do the wicked get cut off from the earth? These are things he said he would do once in kingdom power...do you expect something different??

 

[Sapiens]

Horse pucky!

 

[Muffled]

Jesus promised that he would return with the power of Gods kingdom. A lot of christians i imagine are still waiting for that to happen.

But what if someone told you that it has already happened and Jesus is already here ruling and changing the world?

What would be your initial response??

I have teh Kingdom of God within me and Jesus is my King.