Gods Kingdom is now ruling. Are you one of its citizens?

[savagewind]

מַלְכוּ֙ דִּ֤י לְעָלְמִין֙ לָ֣א תִתְחַבַּ֔ל These words: a kingdom - that - for ever - shall - be destroyed

I think it means "hurt" not destroy, as the kingdom of righteousness, because of it's righteousness, hurts the standing of all other kingdoms.

Noah is an example of condemnation by means or righteousness. Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.

Romans 4:13
It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

 

[savagewind]

I do not know another scripture that says Earth will be without man rule other than what they say Daniel said at Daniel 2:44. Is there one?

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

JW's never said Jesus was to return,as in to earth,in 1914.Thats a misconception on the part of those who do not know the entire truth.JW's believe that Jesus Christ came to rule as King of Gods Kingdom in 1914.This rule is in heaven,not on earth.The reason JW's believe this is because of what Gods Word says about it in the 2,520 year prophecy mentioned in the book of Daniel.

The 2,520 year prophecy states that after this period of time is when Jesus Christ will sit on the throne of Gods Kingdom.According to the 2,520 year prophecy in the book of Daniel this began with the last king appointed being Zedekiah.He was dethroned by King Nebuchadnezzar in 607 B.C.E. Jerusalem was under Babylonian control since 618 B.C.E. but Jerusalem fell in 607 B.C.E.

So,God said that there would be no more kings appointed to sit on His throne.Gods throne became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted.This 2,520 prophecy, better known as the Gentile Times prophecy, is the period of time that no kings appointed by God would rule as Gods representatives.Gentile kings would rule.

So if you go 2,520 years into the future from the year 607 B.C.E. you come to 1914 C.E. 606+1914=2,520
From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years.

Ok,so now we have the end year of the 2,520 year prophecy being 1914 A.D. or C.E.
One might say,so what,what does that prove? What event of great significance 
happened in the year 1914? WWI.There had never in the history of the world been a war that involved the entire globe.The world was at peace for a very long time and out of nowhere World War I erupted, literally over night.It started with the assassination of 
Archduke Ferdinand,heir to the AustroHungarian Empire.He was shot to death along side his wife on June 28th 1914,by Serbian nationalist,in Sarajevo Bosnia.

This is what sparked WWI.

WWI also introduced military warfare never ever seen before like:Submarines,Tanks,Airplanes,Machine guns,Flame throwers,Chemical's etc..

WWI happening tells us something.It also happening at the end of the "Gentile Times" prophecy proves something.It shows how Jesus Christ has taken control of the 
Kingdom of God ,and is reigning King on Gods throne.It coincides with what is spoken of in Revelation 12:9 about satan and his demons being cast down to earth.

It also says in 12:12 "Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."

It also says this in 1 Peter 5:8 "Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.



So we have the end of the 2,520 year prophecy ending as WWI is starting.God stated that at the end of this 2,520 prophecy is when Jesus Christ would begin ruling as King.


There has been more blood shed in the 20th century than all other 19 centuries combined.Satan the devil has been cast down to earth and this happened when Jesus Christ took the throne.According to Gods Word in the holy scriptures this only happened after the 2,520 prophecy has been fulfilled.This occurred in 1914.

We don't know the entire truth?? Hmmm..

1902 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)


So they went from saying the above in 1902...to..

1914 "Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us." (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)

"Even if the time of our chang should not ocme within ten years"...what do you mean "even if", you are supposed to be Jehovah's organization??? Hahahaha. Foolishness.

 

[2ndpillar]

Jesus promised that he would return with the power of Gods kingdom. A lot of christians i imagine are still waiting for that to happen.

But what if someone told you that it has alreadyJo happened and Jesus is already here ruling and changing the world?

What would be your initial response??

Dear Pegg,
I would say someone is mixing up the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand, and the kingdom of God, which is to come. The kingdom of heaven is power and Spirit, of which you will see little under the present "ruler of the world is coming and he has nothing in me" (John 14:30)

 

[savagewind]

I would say someone is mixing up the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand, and the kingdom of God, which is to come. The kingdom of heaven is power and Spirit, of which you will see little under the present "ruler of the world is coming and he has nothing in me" (John 14:30)

This might be the best comment I have read on the internet.

 

[Nada]

We don't know the entire truth?? Hmmm..

1902 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)


So they went from saying the above in 1902...to..

1914 "Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us." (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)

"Even if the time of our chang should not ocme within ten years"...what do you mean "even if", you are supposed to be Jehovah's organization??? Hahahaha. Foolishness.

These people are not prophets.No JW has ever claimed to be a prophet.These early International Bible Students,as they were called before 1931,were expecting a change to come, but they were speculating, and really did not know what to expect.They knew because of what Russell had figured out, according to what it says in the holy scriptures,that the 2,520 prophecy would end in 1914 A.D. He did not prophesy this.Gods Word stated this.This information was given to Daniel by Gabriel the angel, and written in the book of Daniel.So it was never the IBS or the JW's that said they prophesied this.They just brought it to the attention of the world.They knew something of great significance would occur in 1914.

Charles Taze Russell was so sure about this that it was quoted in Newspapers and spoken of all around the world.He stated this information 30 years before it happened.Again it was not a prophecy,it was information according to scripture.When WWI happened almost overnight in 1914,the whole world freaked out and took notice of what Russell had stated 30 years earlier.

Russell did not make a prophecy.He just read and studied the scriptures to come to this conclusion.Its all there for anyone who has faith to see.It is not a IBS or JW prediction.It is the Word of God.

There were many things that these people were not correct about until the light became brighter.Just like "Christmas" and "Crosses." Once an accurate knowledge was acquired,they then knew it was not good and not of God.They did away with this and do not practice these things any longer.One does not come to know everything in a blink of an eye.Even the disciples,and many others, who learned from Christ, did not learn everything all at once.They had to gradually learn.One does not begin to run when they are born.One must crawl,learn how to walk and then they can run.Same with knowledge of the truth about Gods Kingdom.One is not born with all the knowledge.One must take steps in order to further their knowledge.God blesses you with an understanding of His word by grace alone.


How do you feel about the 2,520 year prophecy? Do you believe in it according to what is said in the book of Daniel? Do you think they wrong about it?

 

[YmirGF]

Jesus promised that he would return with the power of Gods kingdom. A lot of christians i imagine are still waiting for that to happen.

But what if someone told you that it has already happened and Jesus is already here ruling and changing the world?

What would be your initial response??

My initial response would be that they are daft. Upon thinking more deeply on the topic I'd say that they were definitely daft and perhaps highly delusional.

 

[Nada]

We don't know the entire truth?? Hmmm..

1902 "In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914." (The Time Is At Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99)


So they went from saying the above in 1902...to..

1914 "Even if the time of our change should not come within ten years, what more should we ask? Are we not a blessed, happy people? Is not our God faithful? If anyone knows anything better, let him take it. If any of you ever find anything better, we hope you will tell us." (Watchtower, Dec 15, 1914, p. 376.)

"Even if the time of our chang should not ocme within ten years"...what do you mean "even if", you are supposed to be Jehovah's organization??? Hahahaha. Foolishness.

So since Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and is supposed to be of Gods organization,does that then make Peter wrong and everything he did null and void, according to your view of things?
Of course not.....Gods organization is made up of imperfect humans.All of Jesus Christ followers are imperfect.There have only been 3 perfect people who have walked the earth.That is Adam,Eve and Jesus Christ.

Peter was even told by Jesus Christ that he was to be put to death and die.Peter did not understand the extent or the true meaning of what Jesus was saying because he did not yet have an accurate knowledge of the truth.Peter was using human wisdom to try to understand godly wisdom.Thats why Peter was trying to convince Jesus to leave and escape danger.

What did Jesus do when Peter said this? Jesus told Peter ,"behind me satan." Jesus was not literally calling Peter the devil.Satan means adversary.So,when Jesus called Peter "satan",he was merely implying that Peter had become a stumbling block for Jesus.Hence adversary.

Peter did not know fully at that time what Jesus meant.After some time, Peter then came to understand what Jesus actually was speaking of, and later became one of most influential servants.It was Peter and the rest of the original disciples that were chosen to preach to the lost sheep of Israel.

So we can see that even though Gods people make mistakes, and speculate, does not mean they are not of Gods organization.

 

[savagewind]

So since Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and is supposed to be of Gods organization,does that then make Peter wrong and everything he did null and void, according to your view of things?
Of course not.....Gods organization is made up of imperfect humans.All of Jesus Christ followers are imperfect.There have only been 3 perfect people who have walked the earth.That is Adam,Eve and Jesus Christ.

Peter was even told by Jesus Christ that he was to be put to death and die.Peter did not understand the extent or the true meaning of what Jesus was saying because he did not yet have an accurate knowledge of the truth.Peter was using human wisdom to try to understand godly wisdom.Thats why Peter was trying to convince Jesus to leave and escape danger.

What did Jesus do when Peter said this? Jesus told Peter ,"behind me satan." Jesus was not literally calling Peter the devil.Satan means adversary.So,when Jesus called Peter "satan",he was merely implying that Peter had become a stumbling block for Jesus.Hence adversary.

Peter did not know fully at that time what Jesus meant.After some time, Peter then came to understand what Jesus actually was speaking of, and later became one of most influential servants.It was Peter and the rest of the original disciples that were chosen to preach to the lost sheep of Israel.

So we can see that even though Gods people make mistakes, and speculate, does not mean they are not of Gods organization.

Your examples are not of Peter preaching the word wrong. The quoted scriptures are about Peter's personal feelings. What are the faithful and discreet slaves personal feelings? Do you know? You trust them, you must know.

 

[Pegg]

Dear Pegg,
I would say someone is mixing up the kingdom of heaven, which is at hand, and the kingdom of God, which is to come. The kingdom of heaven is power and Spirit, of which you will see little under the present "ruler of the world is coming and he has nothing in me" (John 14:30)

why do you imagine the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are different things?

Do not the heavens belong to God? Could there be more then one rulership in heaven?

I dont think so.

 

[Pegg]

More Jehovah witness propoganda...I thought that Christ was to return in 1914? Or was that just one of many false prophecies by the Watchtower?

He did return in 1914. That is the point.

Why do you think Matthew chapter 24 warns us of the many troubles to come upon the earth at the time of Christs presence?

 

[savagewind]

why do you imagine the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are different things?

Do not the heavens belong to God? Could there be more then one rulership in heaven?

I dont think so.

If it is not possible that more than one rule be in heaven why was Satan thrown out? Also, you believe Jesus is not God, but Jesus rules in heaven. Doesn't he? If he does and of course Jehovah rules too then that is TWO.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

So since Peter denied Jesus 3 times, and is supposed to be of Gods organization,does that then make Peter wrong and everything he did null and void, according to your view of things?
Of course not.....Gods organization is made up of imperfect humans.All of Jesus Christ followers are imperfect.There have only been 3 perfect people who have walked the earth.That is Adam,Eve and Jesus Christ.

Peter was even told by Jesus Christ that he was to be put to death and die.Peter did not understand the extent or the true meaning of what Jesus was saying because he did not yet have an accurate knowledge of the truth.Peter was using human wisdom to try to understand godly wisdom.Thats why Peter was trying to convince Jesus to leave and escape danger.

What did Jesus do when Peter said this? Jesus told Peter ,"behind me satan." Jesus was not literally calling Peter the devil.Satan means adversary.So,when Jesus called Peter "satan",he was merely implying that Peter had become a stumbling block for Jesus.Hence adversary.

Peter did not know fully at that time what Jesus meant.After some time, Peter then came to understand what Jesus actually was speaking of, and later became one of most influential servants.It was Peter and the rest of the original disciples that were chosen to preach to the lost sheep of Israel.

So we can see that even though Gods people make mistakes, and speculate, does not mean they are not of Gods organization.

Well, Peter was one of Jesus' right hand men...and was still one of the leaders of the Early Church...

But what did God say about false prophets?

Deut 18:20-22

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."

The Watchtower has made many false prophecies and according to God, we don't need to bang with them.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

He did return in 1914. That is the point.

Why do you think Matthew chapter 24 warns us of the many troubles to come upon the earth at the time of Christs presence?

Hahahaha how are we to distinguish the troubles during that time from any other troublesome time in history?

 

[Pegg]

Hahahaha how are we to distinguish the troubles during that time from any other troublesome time in history?

they would have to be occuring simultaneously along with another sign that the world had never seen before.

You'll find what that sign is in Matt 24:14

 

[savagewind]

Matthew 24:14 saying the good news of the Kingdom will be proclaimed in all the earth for a testimony... A book can do that. This world is different than the world would have been had the Bible not been changed. I can certainly imagine if the book had not been changed the reality would be much better than it is now and everyone who would have it to read would have it by now. I can't imagine Jehovah being happy about having it distributed the wrong way it is.

 

[Nada]

Well, Peter was one of Jesus' right hand men...and was still one of the leaders of the Early Church...

But what did God say about false prophets?

Deut 18:20-22

"But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."

The Watchtower has made many false prophecies and according to God, we don't need to bang with them.

You are still not understanding.IBS or JW's are not prophets.They have never claimed to be prophets.They do not prophesy.Also,the IBS, when they were speculating about what would occur in 1914,never claimed Jehovah said what they were thinking.A prophet claims the word came from God.IBS never claimed what they thought about what would happen came from God.Thats was all what they thought.The only thing that truly came from God was what was already spoken of in the book of Daniel concerning the 2,520 prophecy.This was given to Daniel by Gabriel the angel.

So, Russell and the IBS knew from this information, already provided in the book of Daniel, that something of great significance would occur in 1914.They were not sure what, but speculated about it.They did not possess super knowledge that no one else had.They were just a step up and knew some things about it.They were trying to figure out what it was.Many things were discussed about it.It was not until it happened that they came to realize things.

With more studying they began to see more light and understand its true meaning and what had to happen.As time passed more knowledge came to light and they saw the changes that needed to be made.They stopped practicing holidays,stopped using crosses,stopped doing lots of things that contradicted Gods Word.The preaching work went full scale and more people began to take in accurate knowledge about God.Up to this point there still was not an accurate knowledge about God being preached to the entire inhabited earth.Since 1914 until now in 2014,100 years later,almost the entire world has come to understand Gods Word because of JW's.

These people know what it says in Matthew 24:36.They know that no one knows the appointed time of the end. Anyone can speculate about when this can occur, but no one knows for certain.Its like seeing some grey clouds in the sky.You know its going to rain but you don't know when exactly.


With more knowledge comes answers. The JW's know now that false religion has to be put to an end first before the end can came.False religion must be totally destroyed before the great tribulation can occur.This is what will trigger the great tribulation.



http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2012681

 

[savagewind]

Jehovah's Witnesses teach the Bible is inspired of God and unadulterated. So when they say "the Bible says" obedient humankind hears "God says". It is what they teach. When they are wrong they do not say the Bible might be wrong (it is) they say no one is perfect but our motives are ALWAYS (and forever) good.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

You are still not understanding.IBS or JW's are not prophets.They have never claimed to be prophets.They do not prophesy.

No, YOU are not acknowledging what the WatchTower organization has said in the past. I am not saying this is what they are now claiming, I am saying that this is what they were claiming, and should the WatchTower make any such claims today, its followers would believe it because they place their faith on the organization, and not God. So if they are not prophets, they shouldn't be predicting ANYTHING.

Second, what you are saying is contrary to what JW's has said in their prior publications...at which they WERE claiming to be prophets and making predictions. It is simple, leave the predictions to the big boys, you know, the one's that God actually granted the gift of prophecies too.

Also,the IBS, when they were speculating about what would occur in 1914,never claimed Jehovah said what they were thinking.A prophet claims the word came from God.IBS never claimed what they thought about what would happen came from God.Thats was all what they thought.The only thing that truly came from God was what was already spoken of in the book of Daniel concerning the 2,520 prophecy.This was given to Daniel by Gabriel the angel.

So, Russell and the IBS knew from this information, already provided in the book of Daniel, that something of great significance would occur in 1914.They were not sure what, but speculated about it.They did not possess super knowledge that no one else had.They were just a step up and knew some things about it.They were trying to figure out what it was.Many things were discussed about it.It was not until it happened that they came to realize things.

With more studying they began to see more light and understand its true meaning and what had to happen.As time passed more knowledge came to light and they saw the changes that needed to be made.They stopped practicing holidays,stopped using crosses,stopped doing lots of things that contradicted Gods Word.The preaching work went full scale and more people began to take in accurate knowledge about God.Up to this point there still was not an accurate knowledge about God being preached to the entire inhabited earth.Since 1914 until now in 2014,100 years later,almost the entire world has come to understand Gods Word because of JW's.

These people know what it says in Matthew 24:36.They know that no one knows the appointed time of the end. Anyone can speculate about when this can occur, but no one knows for certain.Its like seeing some grey clouds in the sky.You know its going to rain but you don't know when exactly.


With more knowledge comes answers. The JW's know now that false religion has to be put to an end first before the end can came.False religion must be totally destroyed before the great tribulation can occur.This is what will trigger the great tribulation.
How This World Will Come to an End — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226

You can't rebuttle the truth.

 

[Call_of_the_Wild]

they would have to be occuring simultaneously along with another sign that the world had never seen before.

You'll find what that sign is in Matt 24:14

I just read it Pegg, and I don't see the relevance.