Gods Kingdom is now ruling. Are you one of its citizens?

[Nada]

No, YOU are not acknowledging what the WatchTower organization has said in the past. I am not saying this is what they are now claiming, I am saying that this is what they were claiming, and should the WatchTower make any such claims today, its followers would believe it because they place their faith on the organization, and not God. So if they are not prophets, they shouldn't be predicting ANYTHING.

Second, what you are saying is contrary to what JW's has said in their prior publications...at which they WERE claiming to be prophets and making predictions. It is simple, leave the predictions to the big boys, you know, the one's that God actually granted the gift of prophecies too.



"Now, in view of recent labor troubles and threatened anarchy, our readers are writing to know if there may not be a mistake in the 1914 date. They do not see how present conditions can hold out so long under the strain. We see no reason for changing the figures - nor could we change them if we would. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date for the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." Zion's Watch Tower 1894 Jul 15 p.226

You can't rebuttle the truth.

I did acknowledge it.I even explained it.

I notice though that when one cannot explain on scriptural matters, they will try to dig up anything to try to discredit the source.You cannot disprove what is pointed out about Gods Word, so you try to do other things to take focus off of whats really important.Its a common tactic used by those who do not possess an accurate knowledge of the truth.

Its very easy to see who is really doing Gods will.Those who are celebrating false holidays,using crosses,praying to saints,joining wars and killing people,being sexually immoral,voting for political figures etc..These are the ones not doing what God commands.

The ones doing the opposite of all of these things and going house to house preaching the Word of God to all the inhabited earth are the ones doing Gods Will.

Do you do this? Who else does this? I know the 1st century Christians did this.Paul did this.

Acts 20:20 You know that I have not hesitated to preach anything that would be helpful to you but have taught you publicly and from house to house.


Acts 28:23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus.

Who else does this?

 

[Nada]

I just read it Pegg, and I don't see the relevance.

Because of your lack of love, and disrespect, I no longer wish to carry on a discussion with you.You say things like ,"Hahahaha. Foolishness." I must go now.I want to speak to those who actually want to discuss the Word of God,respectfully.

 

[Pegg]

I just read it Pegg, and I don't see the relevance.

no, most people don't see the significance of it... but as this prophecy is being fulfilled today, the Watchtower is making known that we are living in the time of the end of the conclusion of the system.

All of the signs Jesus gave are now being fulfilled on a daily basis. Prior to the 1900's, there was no preaching of the good news! The nations had small conflics with one another here and there, but there was never a 'world war'. The great war of 1914 (WW1) is remembered as a turning point in human history...things changed from that point on.

Why did they change so drastically? Because of what happened when Christ became enthroned in the heavens. Revelation chapter 12 describes the heavenly 'woman' who gave birth to a 'son'.... and the dragon in heaven tried to destroy the Son. Verse 7 goes onto say what happened next:

7 And war broke out in heaven: Mi′cha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. ....12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.



Remember what Jesus said "keep awake" because he would be coming 'as a thief'

If you dont see the signs, you might not be found awake by him.

 

[outhouse]

but as this prophecy is being fulfilled today

.

Well it Is not.


Perceived by you maybe, not the rest of the real world

 

[Shak34]

You are still not understanding.IBS or JW's are not prophets.They have never claimed to be prophets.They do not prophesy.

I have to disagree with you on this one. In the April 1, 1972 Watchtower: They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them says:

"However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real kingdom of God. He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses"

According to that quote they did claim to be prophets.

Also,the IBS, when they were speculating about what would occur in 1914,never claimed Jehovah said what they were thinking.A prophet claims the word came from God.IBS never claimed what they thought about what would happen came from God.Thats was all what they thought.The only thing that truly came from God was what was already spoken of in the book of Daniel concerning the 2,520 prophecy.This was given to Daniel by Gabriel the angel.

The bottom of The Awake! used to say "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away."

May 15, 1984 Watchtower: 1914 The Generation That Will Not Pass Away says

"Jehovah’s prophetic word through Christ Jesus is: “This generation [of 1914] will by no means pass away until all things occur.”

How are these not prophesies? Where in the bible did the creator promise that this generation that saw these events of 1914 would not pass away? The bible doesn't say 1914, but here Witnesses seem to be saying that God said it. By the way I did not add or take away from any of these quotes, they are exactly as they were printed.

 

[savagewind]

The Jehovah's Witnesses have changed the definition of generation as recorded at Matthew 24:34 many times. By now it is obvious they don't know what Jesus meant. I have proposed he meant the generation or family that believes him, trusts him and obeys him. So the generation that won't pass away includes all the people from the time of his death and resurrection until now. Please remember "they are all alive to Jehovah".

He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive. Luke 20:38

 

[Muffled]

thats good, but when do you expect the Kingdom of God to bring the changes on earth that have been promised?

I don't beleive I know which promises you are asking about.

 

[Muffled]

armageddon is one of the actions Jesus will take after being enthroned in the kingdom.

We are supposed to keep watching for the reality of that kingdom.

Matt 24:42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
43 “But know one thing: If the householder had known in what watch the thief was coming, he would have kept awake and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44 On this account, you too prove yourselves ready, because the Son of man is coming at an hour that you do not think to be it.

If people are unaware of the when the Kingdom begins its rule, how on earth will they be ready for when Armageddon strikes?

I believe you are in error. Armageddon takes place before Jesus takes His throne. It does happen after the anti-christ takes his throne.

Mat 24:15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),

I beleive this is a double fulfillment prophesy by Jesus and triple by Daniel. The first instance was in 70AD when the Romans tried to set up an idol in the temple. The second instance is future when the Anti-Christ sits in the temple and calls himself God.

 

[Muffled]

I believe it refers to the growth of God's kingdom after it's fulfilled arrival at Pentecost Luke 9:27. And according to John 3:5, one enters the kingdom from them on via water baptism in Jesus's name John 3:5/Acts 2:38.

I beleive you should refer to the meaning of the word "come." It does not mean grow. Also something that is already here does not need to come.

As my mother once said to me when she caght me playing with myself: "leave it alone; it will grow."

 

[Pegg]

I don't beleive I know which promises you are asking about.

try the following scriptures:

Matt 25:31-33
Revelation 21:3-4
Revelation 7;17
1Cor 15:24-26
Revelation 20:14
Psalm 37:9-10

and many more

 

[Pegg]

I believe you are in error. Armageddon takes place before Jesus takes His throne. It does happen after the anti-christ takes his throne.

Mat 24:15 When therefore ye see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand),

I beleive this is a double fulfillment prophesy by Jesus and triple by Daniel. The first instance was in 70AD when the Romans tried to set up an idol in the temple. The second instance is future when the Anti-Christ sits in the temple and calls himself God.

there is no temple anymore.

And the anti-christ has been in the world since the first century according to the bible:
1John 2:18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now (1st century) many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.

Who are the many antichrists that John is speaking about? Is is false christians if you continue reading John says "they went out from among us"

The antichrist are false christians ....and they are everywhere.

 

[savagewind]

:tribal:

 

[Ken Brown]

there is no temple anymore.

And the anti-christ has been in the world since the first century according to the bible:
1John 2:18 Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now (1st century) many antichrists have appeared, from which fact we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.

Who are the many antichrists that John is speaking about? Is is false christians if you continue reading John says "they went out from among us"

The antichrist are false christians ....and they are everywhere.

Shalom Pegg, agreed, the antichrist are false christians. Tell me what you think about when Satan fell from Heaven or was cast out:

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Jn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.


Jn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Did this happen in 1914, or did it happen when Yeshua suffered, died, was buried, and then rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Pegg]

Shalom Pegg, agreed, the antichrist are false christians. Tell me what you think about when Satan fell from Heaven or was cast out:

Lk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.


Jn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.


Jn 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Did this happen in 1914, or did it happen when Yeshua suffered, died, was buried, and then rose on the third day, according to the Scriptures? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

That is a good question. One thing i would just like to point out is that when the prophets saw a vision of a future event, they often wrote about it in past tense as if it had already happened....and likely Jesus did the same in this instance.

When Jesus was soon to be executed, he stated that he saw Satan fall from heaven as if it had already happened. But if we consider the events after Jesus was killed, then it can all be put into perspective. Firstly, if Satan had already fallen before Jesus was exectuted, then he would not have had any power to kill Jesus because Jesus enthronement made him superior to all...and that includes Satan. If Jesus was superior to Satan, then how could Satan have killed him?

The scriptures tell us that after Jesus death, he returned to heaven and 'waited' for Gods enemies to be placed under his feet.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.

So Satan did not fall from heaven before Christ died... it had to be after. Therefore that prophecy of Jesus would have been fulfilled during that time of 'waiting' for all enemies (which includes Satan) to be placed as a stool under Jesus feet.

We believe that time began shortly after 1914. World events since 1914 certainly give evidence of this, and so does bible chronology from the prophetic writings of the book of Daniel. I would be happy to elaborate on that chronology if you wish to examine it further.

 

[savagewind]

....Firstly, if Satan had already fallen before Jesus was exectuted, then he would not have had any power to kill Jesus because Jesus enthronement made him superior to all...and that includes Satan. If Jesus was superior to Satan, then how could Satan have killed him?

We believe that time began shortly after 1914. World events since 1914 certainly give evidence of this, and so does bible chronology from the prophetic writings of the book of Daniel. I would be happy to elaborate on that chronology if you wish to examine it further.

The scriptures make no mention of the fact that Satan killed Jesus. Do they?

Ephesians 6:10 Finally, go on acquiring power in the Lord and in the mightiness of his strength. 11 Put on the complete suit of armor from God so that you may be able to stand firm against the crafty acts of the Devil; 12 because we have a struggle, not against blood and flesh, but against the governments, against the authorities, against the world rulers of this darkness, against the wicked spirit forces in the heavenly places. 13 For this reason take up the complete suit of armor from God, so that you may be able to resist in the wicked day and, after you have accomplished everything, to stand firm.

Surely as a man Jesus could have accomplished this also! Jesus has always been "superior to satan". How is this not true? Even if satan had not defected Jesus would have been superior as he has always been God's "first born".

 

[Ken Brown]

That is a good question. One thing i would just like to point out is that when the prophets saw a vision of a future event, they often wrote about it in past tense as if it had already happened....and likely Jesus did the same in this instance.

When Jesus was soon to be executed, he stated that he saw Satan fall from heaven as if it had already happened. But if we consider the events after Jesus was killed, then it can all be put into perspective. Firstly, if Satan had already fallen before Jesus was exectuted, then he would not have had any power to kill Jesus because Jesus enthronement made him superior to all...and that includes Satan. If Jesus was superior to Satan, then how could Satan have killed him?

The scriptures tell us that after Jesus death, he returned to heaven and 'waited' for Gods enemies to be placed under his feet.
Hebrews 10:12 But this man offered one sacrifice for sins for all time and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on waiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.

So Satan did not fall from heaven before Christ died... it had to be after. Therefore that prophecy of Jesus would have been fulfilled during that time of 'waiting' for all enemies (which includes Satan) to be placed as a stool under Jesus feet.

We believe that time began shortly after 1914. World events since 1914 certainly give evidence of this, and so does bible chronology from the prophetic writings of the book of Daniel. I would be happy to elaborate on that chronology if you wish to examine it further.

Shalom Pegg, let's say you are correct and that Yeshua seeing Satan fall from Heaven was speaking about the time frame of 1914, and not about how the Father was handing all power and authority over to HIM THEN, and that Satan was loosing it at that time (in Heaven). How do you explain John 11:30-33:

Jn 12:30 - 12:33
30 Yeshua answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 “Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

Was this also speaking about the time frame of 1914? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[savagewind]

Matthew 28:18 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth...." NWT

Will be given? No. Has been given.

 

[james2ko]

He did return in 1914. That is the point. Why do you think Matthew chapter 24 warns us of the many troubles to come upon the earth at the time of Christs presence?

Mat 24:29-30 "Soon after the trouble of those days, the sun will grow dark, the moon will no longer shine, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers in space will be driven from their courses. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of earth will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
​

Isa 24:23 The moon will grow dark, and the sun will no longer shine, for the LORD Almighty will be king. He will rule in Jerusalem on Mount Zion, and the leaders of the people will see his glory.

Zec_8:3 "Thus says the LORD: 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the LORD of hosts, The Holy Mountain.'

Zec_14:9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be "The LORD is one," And His name one.​

At what point in 1914 did the sun and moon grow dark; when was it reported that all the people saw Christ coming in the clouds of heaven; and most importantly...Why is He not now dwelling and ruling in the midst of Jerusalem? As these verses clearly indicate and you've ignored long enough.

 

[Pegg]

Shalom Pegg, let's say you are correct and that Yeshua seeing Satan fall from Heaven was speaking about the time frame of 1914, and not about how the Father was handing all power and authority over to HIM THEN, and that Satan was loosing it at that time (in Heaven). How do you explain John 11:30-33:

Jn 12:30 - 12:33
30 Yeshua answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 “Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 “And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die.

Was this also speaking about the time frame of 1914? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Yes, this too refers to the future.

Jesus died in 33CE... decades later, the apostles still spoke of his rulership and kingdom as something a future time:

Titus 2:11 For the undeserved kindness of God has been manifested, bringing salvation to all sorts of people. 12 It trains us to reject ungodliness and worldly desires and to live with soundness of mind and righteousness and godly devotion amid this present system of things, 13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of our Savior, Jesus Christ


1Peter1:13  So brace up your minds for activity; keep your senses completely; set your hope on the undeserved kindness that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ

2 Peter 3:11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah, through which the heavens will be destroyed in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat! 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.


2Cor 4:3 If, in fact, the good news we declare is veiled, it is veiled among those who are perishing, 4 among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through


Notice in all these scriptures, the hope of the heavenly kingdom is still future... it has not occured yet. The Apostles are encouraging christians to keep waiting for it. And in their understanding, Satan was still the 'god of the system' even after Christ had been raised to heaven.

In Revelation chapter 12, the establishment of the kingdom is discussed but the woman who gives birth to the child is said to flee into the wilderness for a length of time... then after being in the wilderness for a set period of time, war breaks out in heaven and Michael the Arch Angle takes the lead in hurling Satan from heaven. When we turn to Daniels prophecy, we see the same events under discussion:

Dan 12:1 “During that time Mi′cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time.


So we believe that this time of distress refers to the outbreak of WW1 in 1914... that was a turning point in human history and it well describes the time of distress as discussed by both Daniel and Revelation.

 

[Pegg]

Mat 24:29-30 "Soon after the trouble of those days, the sun will grow dark, the moon will no longer shine, the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers in space will be driven from their courses. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky; and all the peoples of earth will weep as they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
​

Isa 24:23 The moon will grow dark, and the sun will no longer shine, for the LORD Almighty will be king. He will rule in Jerusalem on Mount Zion, and the leaders of the people will see his glory.

Zec_8:3 "Thus says the LORD: 'I will return to Zion, And dwell in the midst of Jerusalem. Jerusalem shall be called the City of Truth, The Mountain of the LORD of hosts, The Holy Mountain.'

Zec_14:9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth. In that day it shall be "The LORD is one," And His name one.​

At what point in 1914 did the sun and moon grow dark; when was it reported that all the people saw Christ coming in the clouds of heaven; and most importantly...Why is He not now dwelling and ruling in the midst of Jerusalem? As these verses clearly indicate and you've ignored long enough.

the events before this are also mentioned by Jesus a few verses earlier in Matthew 24:4  In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of wars and reports of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for these things must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.



The events describing the sun being darkened and moon not giving its light are mentioned later in Vs 29... so those events come later and are still future.

The Watchtower views it as still future:

17 Referring to the tribulation just ahead of us, Jesus said: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days [the destruction of false religion] the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”—Matthew 24:29,*30.
18 Hence, Jesus himself says that “after the tribulation of those days,” celestial phenomena of some sort will occur. (Compare Joel 2:28-32; 3:15.)

This will so startle and shock disobedient humans that they will “beat themselves in lamentation.” Many will “become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth.” But this will not be the case with true Christians! These ‘will lift their heads up, because their deliverance is getting near.’—Luke 21:25, 26,*28.