God's Name Removed from the Bible

[rusra02]

But you're not calling him by his name. it's a name that was just made up. Why are Witnesses Anglicizing his name. You don't translate a personal name. Also you got the whole reason why his name was not spoken by Jews mixed up. It was not out of disrespect but out of respect.

When you think about it if you're a Bible Publisher its probably the safest way to go to use a neutral name. Christians are really flummoxed when it comes to Gods identity. But witnesses put out their own translated versions of the Bible so I don't see where this is a problem for you guys anyway.

By the way as an Omnist there are aspects of your faith that I do admire. I like your Arian approach to divinity.

The name Jehovah, IMO, is a correct way to translate God's name into English. Personal names in the Bible have all been translated. Since God tells us that "...everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved", I believe it is essential we call God by the name he has given himself. (Joel 2:32) Otherwise, why have it in the Bible some 7,000 time?. But numbers alone aren't the whole story. The Bible urges "You young men and young women, old men and young together. *Let them praise the name of Jehovah, For his name alone is unreachably high. His majesty is above earth and heaven." (Psalm 148:12,13) God's name sets him apart from all other gods, and uniquely identifies him as the only true God. No other name or title does this.
You are right that Jws have restored God's name to it's rightful place in their translation, and so have other translations of the Bible.

 

[rusra02]

Replacement theology is dishonest. What you "believe" has no bearing on what is reality. The Jews were abstaining from vocalizing or writing the name far before the texts were written down.

That simply is not the historical fact. The Dead Sea scrolls, dated to the first century, feature the Tetragrammaton, showing God' distinctive name was removed after that time. Malachi, the last book of the Hebrew Scriptures, features Jehovah's name prominently.

 

[outhouse]

That doesn't make sense. .

Sure it does, you just need a touch up brother.

Please read up, because it is only you who is confused. William Dever or Israel Finkelstein would clear it up.


El and Yahweh were redacted into one, meaning one definition when monotheism was enforced into practice.

El was also replaced with Elohim.

History of ancient Israel and Judah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Israelite monotheism evolved gradually out of pre-existing beliefs and practices of the ancient world.[76] The religion of the Israelites of Iron Age I, like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved[77] and other ancient Near Eastern religions, was based on a cult of ancestors and worship of family gods (the "gods of the fathers").[78] Its major deities were not numerous – El, Asherah, and Yahweh, with Baal as a fourth god, and perhaps Shamash (the sun) in the early period.[79] By the time of the early Hebrew kings, El and Yahweh had become fused and Asherah did not continue as a separate state cult,


Israelites evolved from Canaanites and used some of their deities.

Notice above "like the Canaanite faith from which it evolved"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(deity)

In the Canaanite religion, or Levantine religion as a whole, El or Il was a god also known as the Father of humanity and all creatures, and the husband of the goddess Asherah

And 400 years after the formation of Israel around 800 BC we see some Israelites not all, attributing all Els powers and wife to Yahweh

You have seen the picture 800 BC of Yahweh and his Asherah?


According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,


It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE.


This video gives the best explanation here


[youtube]w7x9f3oPHlw[/youtube]
A History of God - YouTube

 

[outhouse]

Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Yahweh was eventually hypostatized with El. Several pieces of evidence have led scholars to the conclusion that El was the original "God of Israel"— for example, the word "Israel" is based on the name of El rather than on that of Yahweh.[10]:32 Names of the oldest characters in the Torah further show reverence towards El without similar displays towards Yahweh. Most importantly, Yahweh reveals to Moses that though he was not known previously as El, he has, in fact, been El all along.[39]

El was the head of the Canaanite pantheon, with Asherah as his consort and Baal and other deities making up the pantheon.[10]:33 With his rise, Asherah became Yahweh's consort,[40] and Yahweh and Baal at first co-existed and later competed within the popular religion

 

[sojourner]

That simply is not the historical fact. The Dead Sea scrolls, dated to the first century, feature the Tetragrammaton, showing God' distinctive name was removed after that time. Malachi, the last book of the Hebrew Scriptures, features Jehovah's name prominently.

Genesis is a lot older than the DSS. Besides which, the Tetragrammaton really has little to do with "Jehovah," as has been pointed out time and again.

 

[outhouse]

Genesis is a lot older than the DSS. Besides which, the Tetragrammaton really has little to do with "Jehovah," as has been pointed out time and again.

And does not address El in any way shape or form.

 

[Flankerl]

That simply is not the historical fact. The Dead Sea scrolls, dated to the first century, feature the Tetragrammaton, showing God' distinctive name was removed after that time. Malachi, the last book of the Hebrew Scriptures, features Jehovah's name prominently.

Pro tip: The Tetragrammaton is written down in the Tanakh. In Hebrew.

Crazy i know.

Nothing removed. Its been there since it was first written down.

 

[sojourner]

Pro tip: The Tetragrammaton is written down in the Tanakh. In Hebrew.

Crazy i know.

Nothing removed. Its been there since it was first written down.

Imagine that?! :roll eyes:

 

[savagewind]

Pro tip: The Tetragrammaton is written down in the Tanakh. In Hebrew.

Crazy i know.

Nothing removed. Its been there since it was first written down.

:clap

 

[Pegg]

That has nothing to do with the German biblical scholars who mushed together YHVH and Elohim to produce "Jehovah."

if there is so much uncertainty about its correct pronunciation, then there is no reason for abandoning the well known English form “Jehovah”
The way its written and pronounced changes from language to language anyway... so whats the issue with 'Jehovah' for the english?

anyway, here's a cool video i like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XyaF6abm5o

 

[Pegg]

No, it hasn't "always been there." Most scholars think it was coined in c. 1100 c.e. It was popularized by William Tyndale in the early 1500s.

Tyndale wrote the first english translation of the bible... so it has been Jehovah since the bible was first translated into English.

Why would we want to change this well known name now? And even if we did change it, it still is not going to be known if its the original pronounciation because that knowledge has been lost.

How do we know God himself did not direct William Tyndale to render his name as Jehovah? Now there's a thought!

 

[Pegg]

That doesn't make sense. There are many names of the Hebrew G-d that begin with the prefix El-.

The Jews still refer to God as El-Shaddi and Elohim (among others), showing a connection to its polytheistic past. Well, if there is a connection, that is - El could simply be a generic Semetic word for 'god.'

Bingo!

 

[McBell]

Tyndale wrote the first english translation of the bible... so it has been Jehovah since the bible was first translated into English.

Nope.
Tyndale was the first one to PRINT the New Testament.


John Wycliff was the first to WRITE the Bible in English.

 

[sojourner]

if there is so much uncertainty about its correct pronunciation, then there is no reason for abandoning the well known English form “Jehovah”
The way its written and pronounced changes from language to language anyway... so whats the issue with 'Jehovah' for the english?

anyway, here's a cool video i like

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XyaF6abm5o

the Germans provided a "replacement" so as to provide a way to pronounce the Tetragrammaton, knowing that it was merely a convenience, and not meaning to determine some "correct" pronunciation. "Jehovah" isn't "the correct pronunciation."

There is no "uncertainty" as to its correct pronunciation -- there is only no knowledge of how it is pronounced.

The issue is that it's dishonest to assert that "'Jehovah' is the correct name of God." It's more honest to say that "'Jehovah' is an acceptable substitute for the unpronounceable name of God."

 

[sojourner]

Tyndale wrote the first english translation of the bible... so it has been Jehovah since the bible was first translated into English.

Why would we want to change this well known name now? And even if we did change it, it still is not going to be known if its the original pronounciation because that knowledge has been lost.

How do we know God himself did not direct William Tyndale to render his name as Jehovah? Now there's a thought!

Yes, but for the first 1100 years of the church (and untold years before then) "Jehovah" was unknown, because it hadn't been invented yet. Remember: "Jehovah" and "YHVH" are not synonymous.

No need to change it -- only a need to be honest about its nature as a surrogate, and not the name, itself.

That knowledge hasn't been lost. That knowledge never existed.

How do we know? Because we know that William Tyndale didn't invent the term. German scholars invented it about the year 1100, by mushing together two different terms for God. It's a wholly human contrivance. Now there's a thought.

 

[Pegg]

Nope.
Tyndale was the first one to PRINT the New Testament.


John Wycliff was the first to WRITE the Bible in English.

thanks for the clarification

 

[Pegg]

the Germans provided a "replacement" so as to provide a way to pronounce the Tetragrammaton, knowing that it was merely a convenience, and not meaning to determine some "correct" pronunciation. "Jehovah" isn't "the correct pronunciation."

There is no "uncertainty" as to its correct pronunciation -- there is only no knowledge of how it is pronounced.

The issue is that it's dishonest to assert that "'Jehovah' is the correct name of God." It's more honest to say that "'Jehovah' is an acceptable substitute for the unpronounceable name of God."

You may view it however you feel is appropriate.

Its still Gods name as we know it in english and has been for many centuries.

 

[sojourner]

You may view it however you feel is appropriate.

Its still Gods name as we know it in english and has been for many centuries.

No, it's a pronounceable replacement for God's unpronounceable name. That was my whole point: "Jehovah" isn't "the name."

 

[Pegg]

Yes, but for the first 1100 years of the church (and untold years before then) "Jehovah" was unknown, because it hadn't been invented yet. Remember: "Jehovah" and "YHVH" are not synonymous.

No need to change it -- only a need to be honest about its nature as a surrogate, and not the name, itself.

That knowledge hasn't been lost. That knowledge never existed.

How do we know? Because we know that William Tyndale didn't invent the term. German scholars invented it about the year 1100, by mushing together two different terms for God. It's a wholly human contrivance. Now there's a thought.

The way we see it is that the purpose of any word is to transmit a thought. And in English the name Jehovah has been used to identify the true God for a very long time so we are not going to change what those scholars thought to be the best translation they could to relay that thought.

And the hebrews gave us a pretty good clue as to how Gods name is pronounced because many embedded Gods name into their own names in the forms Yehoh′, Yoh, Yah, and Ya′hu, which can be found in the names Jehoshaphat and Shephatiah. Jah is the contracted form of Gods name... JehovAH

Those early scholars would have put a lot of thought into this and i dont think we need to be concerned with an incorrect pronunciation...the most important point is that we know who the name represents and we address him accordingly.

 

[sojourner]

The way we see it is that the purpose of any word is to transmit a thought. And in English the name Jehovah has been used to identify the true God for a very long time so we are not going to change what those scholars thought to be the best translation they could to relay that thought.

And the hebrews gave us a pretty good clue as to how Gods name is pronounced because many embedded Gods name into their own names in the forms Yehoh′, Yoh, Yah, and Ya′hu, which can be found in the names Jehoshaphat and Shephatiah. Jah is the contracted form of Gods name... JehovAH

Those early scholars would have put a lot of thought into this and i dont think we need to be concerned with an incorrect pronunciation...the most important point is that we know who the name represents and we address him accordingly.

No, it's not "the contracted form." There are no vowels in Hebrew. Therefore, there is no "Jah." How do we "pronounce" YHVH? I dunno. That's why most people say, "God." It's a descriptor -- not a name.