roger1440
I do stuff
Thanks. Im pretty sure what I wrote conforms to Christian and Jewish orthodoxy. All I did was to explain it differently.
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God's Name Removed from the Bible
- Thread starter rusra02
- Start date
roger1440
I do stuff
God causes all to be. If you look closely at what I had written, you should notice it is a triple redundancy. God, all and to be is the same. To be is an action or verb. God acts. God is both a noun and verb. All is continuous. It never ends. A verb must continue to move or it falls from existence. In order for God to be God, he must act.
Stovepipe_Hat
One who will die.
...who called his name...
I keep thinking you can come out from behind that facepalm. I promise Bel and the Dragon won't bite you.
outhouse
Atheistically
I keep thinking you can come out from behind that facepalm. I promise Bel and the Dragon won't bite you.
Some theist embarrass me just to be the same species as they are.
:yes:
That was the point of my post, when someone incorrectly assumed they knew the Tetragrammaton, despite it being clearly stated in the Torah they did not.
I would hope so, but I guess we won't really know until it's needed for the Third Temple, hopefully someone steps forward. All I know is the incense has survived. Neither would be used at present for any purpose except to pass down to the next generation.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
According to the Mishnah, anyone who utters God’s name will have “no portion in the world to come.”—Sanhedrin 10:1
And in the 16th century, rabbi Isaac Luria “tikkunim” into Cabalist liturgy. God’s name was used as a mystical charm with special powers, and it became a part of Cabalist ritual
doesnt that sound just a 'little' superstitious to you?
Pro tip: The Tetragrammaton is written down in the Tanakh. In Hebrew.
Crazy i know.
Nothing removed. Its been there since it was first written down.
Surely, you realize God's name has been removed from copies of the Bible in English and other languages. Do the Jews read the Tetragrammaton, and if so, how do they pronounce the Name in Hebrew?
"Look! God is my salvation. I will trust and feel no dread; For Jah Jehovah is my strength and my might, And he has become my salvation. (Isaiah 12:2)
"And right away for the second time they said: Praise Jah! And the smoke from her goes on ascending forever and ever. (Revelation 19:3)
(American Standard Version Re 19:3) "And a second time they say, Hallelujah. And her smoke goeth up for ever and ever."
(King James Version Re 19:3)" And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever."
Flankerl
Well-Known Member
What do i care about translations who are more often than not Christian?
i regularly read the Tetragrammaton. Why would i pronounce it?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
I am a NT scholar, so I haven't read the entire Hebrew bible in Hebrew. But it seems to me that El does not appear by itself anywhere. It's always attached to a descriptor - like El-Shaddi. Shaddi describes the characteristic of God that the writer wants to capture, and then El lets us know that it is referring to God.
It is significant I think that if El doesn't appear alone in a significant way, we have a syntax issue rather than a connection with El theology, etc. If El appears in the Hebrew Bible, then we can trace a history of El in Hebrew thought and connect that with the use of El in the divine names.
Now if El does not appear, it means that there is no remnant of the earlier El (the supreme pagan God), and the connection to the supreme pagan god is merely conjecture, a reading into the text that is an accident of syntax rather than intimate contact with a much older idea (an El pantheon, for example).
It is significant I think that if El doesn't appear alone in a significant way, we have a syntax issue rather than a connection with El theology, etc. If El appears in the Hebrew Bible, then we can trace a history of El in Hebrew thought and connect that with the use of El in the divine names.
Now if El does not appear, it means that there is no remnant of the earlier El (the supreme pagan God), and the connection to the supreme pagan god is merely conjecture, a reading into the text that is an accident of syntax rather than intimate contact with a much older idea (an El pantheon, for example).
outhouse
Atheistically
If you read what I posted. or looked at the links it explains what is known.
El was a god Israelites worshipped separately from Yahweh before monotheism.
outhouse
Atheistically
El wiki
One scholarly position is that the identification of Yahweh with Ēl is late, that Yahweh was earlier thought of as only one of many gods, and not normally identified with Ēl.
In some places, especially in Psalm 29, Yahweh is clearly envisioned as a storm god, something not true of Ēl so far as we know
According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,
It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE. (See 2 Kings 23:15)".[27]
For the reference in some texts of Deuteronomy 32:8 to seventy sons of God corresponding to the seventy sons of Ēl in the Ugaritic texts, see ’Elyôn.
Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
together with a reassesment of the biblical texts, have led the majority of contemporary scholars to the conclusion that the original god of Israel was the common West Semitic father-god El,
Sorry brother, there is no debate here at all
One scholarly position is that the identification of Yahweh with Ēl is late, that Yahweh was earlier thought of as only one of many gods, and not normally identified with Ēl.
In some places, especially in Psalm 29, Yahweh is clearly envisioned as a storm god, something not true of Ēl so far as we know
According to The Oxford Companion to World Mythology,
It seems almost certain that the God of the Jews evolved gradually from the Canaanite El, who was in all likelihood the 'God of Abraham'... If El was the high God of Abraham—Elohim, the prototype of Yahveh—Asherah was his wife, and there are archaeological indications that she was perceived as such before she was in effect 'divorced' in the context of emerging Judaism of the 7th century BCE. (See 2 Kings 23:15)".[27]
For the reference in some texts of Deuteronomy 32:8 to seventy sons of God corresponding to the seventy sons of Ēl in the Ugaritic texts, see ’Elyôn.
Yahweh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
together with a reassesment of the biblical texts, have led the majority of contemporary scholars to the conclusion that the original god of Israel was the common West Semitic father-god El,
Sorry brother, there is no debate here at all
McBell
Unbound
It is interesting to see how the Bible gets translated according to the current fads, whines, etc. of the time...
Uh, cause it's God's Name?
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
There's a certain theological and spiritual arrogance, evidenced by an assumed familiarity with God, such that we feel we are welcome to "be on a first name basis" with God. It assumes too much. It assumes that we know God intimately, that we are on an equal footing with God, that we have some kind of ownership of the world of which we are part. It's a very insidious and dangerous assumption to make, for the theological understanding that comes out of such an assumption is untenable.
Sees
Dragonslayer
What gets me, tickles me, after visiting the "bad ideas" thread before revisiting this one - One True God isn't good enough, has to be One True Name too
So now on the list is One True God, Messiah, Book, Holy Land, Name...what else? One True Christian organization? One True Translation?
So now on the list is One True God, Messiah, Book, Holy Land, Name...what else? One True Christian organization? One True Translation?
I believe such an intimate knowledge of the true God is not only possible, but necessary for salvation. Jesus Christ knows God better than anyone. He said "*This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." Such knowledge of God, IMO, involves a reverential fear of him, and in no way implies we are on an equal footing. But like Abraham, we can be called "Jehovah's friend." (James 2:23) Jehovah invites us to "Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. " (James 4:8) I think that such an intimate relationship with the true God is only possible because of his love and mercy toward us.
Hi it's me again. I still want to know why are you translating God's name and Jesus' s name if getting the name right is so important. I have a Spanish friend name Ricardo.that I don't call Richard, a French friend name Pierre that I don't call Peter. So why are you translating a name.
As mentioned previously, God's name is not pronounced exactly the same in all languages. Therefore, IMO, there is neither a need nor is it possible to know how God's name was pronounced in a language no longer spoken. What is important, to me, is that we honor God's Name. On one occasion, Jesus prayed, "Father, glorify your name. Then a voice came out of heaven: I have glorified it and will glorify it again. (John 12:28) God's distinctive name identifies him in every language as the only true God, whether pronounced Jehovah as in English Je ho vah' as in Spanish. If God didn't want us to use his name, he would not have put in his word over 7,0000 times, IMO.