God's Omniscience versus Free Will

[FearGod]

with no foresight whatsoever...?
interesting.
god apparently doesn't know more than we do...makes sense.

God knows more than we do,examples are many,such as

He knows what women carry on their wombs,males or females,not for a single woman,but for all women on earth.

We don't know if there will be a hurricane in California next month,but god already know.

There are many examples which show that god know a lot than we could know,we could know a single thing but god know all things happening at a moment.

But we are talking about our freewill,god won't know what we are going to choose,thinking otherwise is irrational

 

[VegasRich]

So god knows there will be a hurricane in a month but does nothing to stop it? Even though people that he is supposed to love and care for will die? That does not sound like somebody i would want to worship.

 

[FearGod]

So god knows there will be a hurricane in a month but does nothing to stop it? Even though people that he is supposed to love and care for will die? That does not sound like somebody i would want to worship.

Thats true that god made the disaster,such of the time of Noah and the flood.

i don't know what is god characteristics,but he hate the arrogants and love the humble,he created us and to him we will return.

We are programmed to live for a while and then we'll die,we can't stop the process of becoming old and then die,even if we won't die by an accident or sickness.

So it is our choice to be submitters or disobedients as the satan did.

 

[Tiberius]

God doesn't plan whom you marry,that is your choice and hers.

God doesn't plan who I'm going to marry?

What if I am destined to have children with Sally? What if one of our children is essential to God's plans? As long as SOME person is essential for God's plans, then he's going to have to ensure that two specific people get together and do the necessary things to make that essential person! And that means that the parents of this essential person CAN'T choose to kill themselves before that essential person is conceived.

For example, could Mary, mother of Jesus, have chosen to kill herself before she had Jesus? Could Frank, the grumpy man next door, have chosen to kill her for staying up late reading and leaving the light on, disturbing his sleep? Of course not.

You can't say that some things are predestined and others are not, because all events are intertwined.

 

[FearGod]

God doesn't plan who I'm going to marry?

What if I am destined to have children with Sally? What if one of our children is essential to God's plans? As long as SOME person is essential for God's plans, then he's going to have to ensure that two specific people get together and do the necessary things to make that essential person! And that means that the parents of this essential person CAN'T choose to kill themselves before that essential person is conceived.

For example, could Mary, mother of Jesus, have chosen to kill herself before she had Jesus? Could Frank, the grumpy man next door, have chosen to kill her for staying up late reading and leaving the light on, disturbing his sleep? Of course not.

You can't say that some things are predestined and others are not, because all events are intertwined.

Some events are planned by god to happen,such as your example for Jesus.

Also the promise that Jesus will be back,an event which should happen according to god's plan and without the need for virgin Mary.

Some events are planned by god at specific time,like the event of creating Adam & Eve at one point of time whereas before them the jinn lived on earth.

Adam to god was a new invention,the ability to think and to learn was the main point that distinguish Adam from the other creation and for that god asked the angels to bow for Adam to show respect,but the Satan was from the Jinn refused to do so because of his arrogance and the rest of the story is well known.

 

[PolyHedral]

Some events are planned by god to happen,such as your example for Jesus.

This doesn't make sense. It's either all or none, because everything that ever happens on Earth influences each other.

 

[camanintx]

God doesn't plan whom you marry,that is your choice and hers.

So how do you know which choices God leaves to us? If God can control my choice of a number so easily, maybe it controls all of our choices.

 

[Tiberius]

Some events are planned by god to happen,such as your example for Jesus.

Also the promise that Jesus will be back,an event which should happen according to god's plan and without the need for virgin Mary.

Some events are planned by god at specific time,like the event of creating Adam & Eve at one point of time whereas before them the jinn lived on earth.

Adam to god was a new invention,the ability to think and to learn was the main point that distinguish Adam from the other creation and for that god asked the angels to bow for Adam to show respect,but the Satan was from the Jinn refused to do so because of his arrogance and the rest of the story is well known.

But, as I said, if he planned for Jesus to happen, then he planned for Mary to live long enough for her to give birth and do all that stuff, yes? So that means she was incapable of killing herself. And it was impossible for someone to kill her. this is just one example. Anyone at all who plays a part in something God has planned, or is an ancestor to anyone involved in what god has planned is incapable of making any choice that would prevent it from happening.

If my great great great great grandson is part of God's plan, then aren't there going to be lots of specific people who need to marry my descendants? After all if Bill marries my great great grandaughter Janice instead of Steve, then how can my great great great grandaughter allison be born?

The simple fact is that if some events are planned and others are not, then a person can use one of those unplanned events to prevent the planned event. The only way that God can avoid this is to make ALL events planned events.

 

[FearGod]

This doesn't make sense. It's either all or none, because everything that ever happens on Earth influences each other.

An event have its effect for the moment it happened and kept as a memory or a history in the future times.

An earthquake have its effect on the moment it happened,death,damage..etc
then life will goes on back to normal and that event will be as a history.

Jesus is an event which have its effect on the time it happened to spread the message
and then we have it as a history and what kept is his teachings.

Such events have nothing to do with our freewill but can affect our life for good or bad.

Thomas addison is an event which have its effect for good by his inventions.

You are an event,you came to earth and you will leave it at one point of time.

 

[FearGod]

But, as I said, if he planned for Jesus to happen, then he planned for Mary to live long enough for her to give birth and do all that stuff, yes? So that means she was incapable of killing herself. And it was impossible for someone to kill her. this is just one example. Anyone at all who plays a part in something God has planned, or is an ancestor to anyone involved in what god has planned is incapable of making any choice that would prevent it from happening.

If my great great great great grandson is part of God's plan, then aren't there going to be lots of specific people who need to marry my descendants? After all if Bill marries my great great grandaughter Janice instead of Steve, then how can my great great great grandaughter allison be born?

The simple fact is that if some events are planned and others are not, then a person can use one of those unplanned events to prevent the planned event. The only way that God can avoid this is to make ALL events planned events.

God chose mary to be the mother of Jesus (an event),for this case god made his choice for a purpose,and we can never stop god's will.

God wanted an earthquake to strike china,that event will happen and we can never stop it.

We came to life without our choice and we'll leave without our choice,but the way we lived was our choice according to our free will.

For example,if i'll be a drug addict,then that wasn't because god wanted me to be so,but thats merely was my choice.

 

[Koldo]

Thomas addison is an event which have its effect for good by his inventions.

Inventions?

You mean Thomas Edison, right?

 

[FearGod]

Inventions?

You mean Thomas Edison, right?

right,thank you for correcting my error.

 

[waitasec]

God knows more than we do,examples are many,such as

He knows what women carry on their wombs,males or females,not for a single woman,but for all women on earth.

every woman has that capability these days

We don't know if there will be a hurricane in California next month,but god already know.

then you have no idea what your point is do you?

Knowing everything which is going on right now.

There are many examples which show that god know a lot than we could know,we could know a single thing but god know all things happening at a moment.

how in the world can you provide an example of that?

But we are talking about our freewill,god won't know what we are going to choose,thinking otherwise is irrational

oh i see..
god already knows about the hurricane that will destroy many lives in california but he doesn't know how people will react to it, is that what you are saying...

in the bible we read this in the psalms
139:4
Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.

and i wonder what the phrase “insha’allah” (god willing) means to you?

 

[PolyHedral]

An earthquake have its effect on the moment it happened,death,damage..etc
then life will goes on back to normal and that event will be as a history.

Lol. Tell that to Port-au-Prince, or New Orleans.

 

[adam9]

Free will is limeted to the will of God, truely you can't do anything without the will of God, its only by Gods mercy that you are guided. Ex:did you choose where your born,to whom your born to,to those you meet in school and in the active world, do you decide if the suns rises tomorow

 

[waitasec]

Free will is limeted to the will of God, truely you can't do anything without the will of God, its only by Gods mercy that you are guided. Ex:did you choose where your born,to whom your born to,to those you meet in school and in the active world, do you decide if the suns rises tomorow

i disagree.
although i do share one idea of yours...
no one is in control, which is why, i think, people hold onto an idea that god has control...why...? to have a sense of control of course.

 

[FearGod]

every woman has that capability these days.

Not from the first day,also we don't know what every woman carry on this world,but god knows.

then you have no idea what your point is do you?.

What do you mean ?elaborate pls

how in the world can you provide an example of that?

Once again,our knoweledge is limited,but god have all the knoweledge for every single moment,can you know that mr. Liu XY is commiting an adultery with a prostitute called chin MX living somewhere in China,god knows not only for one person,but have all the knowledge for every moment and every place for each and every person.

oh i see..,
god already knows about the hurricane that will destroy many lives in california but he doesn't know how people will react to it, is that what you are saying...

in the bible we read this in the psalms
139:4
Before a word is on my tongue
you, Lord, know it completely.

and i wonder what the phrase “insha’allah” (god willing) means to you?

Yes god will know what you are going to say,because he knows what is your intention.

The information which you are going to say will be known to him before reaching your tonque,that make sense,but the problem people interpret verses and making god to be an illogical entity.

Regarding "insha allah",giving you an example to see if it make sense.

i am travelling to Australia by tomorrow morning,insha allah.

i have the intention and preparing my self to travel by tomorrow morning,but can i know if i'll live till tomorrow,what if i died while sleeping,what if the weather next day was so bad that postpone flights.

Watch that egyptian journalist while speaking on air and died before making his full speech.

[youtube]Ql9hp3NEGPY[/youtube]
Egyptian Journalist Live Death - YouTube

 

[waitasec]

What do you mean ?elaborate pls

ok...i asked you this:

so what does omniscience mean again?

you said this:

Knowing everything which is going on right now.

you are saying 2 opposing things, can you see that?

Yes god will know what you are going to say,because he knows what is your intention.

does not work with:

Knowing everything which is going on right now.

 

[waitasec]

That would be consistent with a man made religion..go figure

indeed....

 

[FearGod]

ok...i asked you this:


you said this:



you are saying 2 opposing things, can you see that?



does not work with:

There is no contradiction on what i have said.
God knows everything going on right now,including the words on my tongue.i didn't say that god knows what i am going to say by tomorrow,i won't agree on such stupid idea that god will know my future life before it become true,that is irrational and make no sense at all.