• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

God's opposition to homosexuality. Why?

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member

Evandr said:

I do understand what you are pointing out – I did not make myself clear; animals will exhibit homosexual "behavior" but it is also true that, according to an article in wikipedia - "Although homosexual behavior is very common in the animal world, it seems to be very uncommon that individual animals have a long-lasting predisposition to engage in such behavior to the exclusion of heterosexual activities.


According to a National Geographic article at Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate, nearly all bonobo monkeys are bi-sexual. The article also says that many animals practice homosexuality because they find it to be pleasing. That makes sense, including for human homosexuals. Why would human homosexuals want to abstain from having sex? That would frequently cause all sorts of physical and pyschological problems. Even some Christian experts have admitted that reparative therapy is ineffective in the majority of cases, and works best for religiously motivated homosexuals. In addition, the majority of homosexuals would not do very well with abstinence.

Homosexuality in the animal kingdom!

sodahead.com said:

"No species has been found in which homosexual behaviour has not
been shown to exist, with the exception of species that never have sex
at all, such as sea urchins and aphis. Moreover, a part of the animal kingdom is hermaphroditic, truly bisexual. For them, homosexuality is not an issue." Petter Bockman

One fourth of black swan pairings are homosexual. They take over the nest of a female after her eggs have been laid, and more babies survive under their care. The same is applied to flamingos.

There have been quite a few male penguin couples. Some of have fostered chicks, and others build nests and use a rock to stand in for an egg!

Amazon dolphins often partake in group sex where they use the snout, blowhole, flippers and rubbing without regard to gender.

The bonobo ape is a fully bisexual species, with as many as 60% of sexual activity occurring between females!

Both Asian and African elephants engage in long-term same-sex relationships (in contrast to the fleeting nature of simply mating with the opposite sex). This applies to both male and female elephants. In Asian elephants, at least 45% of sexual activity is homosexual!

More than 90% of giraffe copulation is between two males.

Both sexes of the Japanese macaque often engage in same-sex relationships that include sexual activity.

Whiptail lizards (which reproduce through parthenogenesis), engage in sexual activity with other females to stimulate ovulation.

Other examples of species that engage in same-sex behaviors that weren't as interesting as these: gulls, ibises, mallards, pigeons, bison, bottlenose dolphins (which often gang rape unwilling female mates, sometimes causing them to drown!), lions, polecats, sheep, hyenas (which have VERY interesting anatomy), dragonflies, fruit flies and bed bugs!




Evandr said:

Homosexuals claim the inability to choose, I still believe that, for the most part, this is not true and that although such tendencies may have their roots in pre-mortality the consequences are still the same.


If free will exists, it is obvious that any kind of sexual activity between two people is a choice. However, it is well-known that when teenagers feel their first sexual urges, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bi-sexual, they do not choose which kind of urges appeal to them. Initial sexual orientation is definitely not a choice. Some homosexuals have said that they wanted to change their sexual orientation to heterosexual so that there would be less discrimination against them, and that they were not able to change their sexual orientation.

Whether the issue is humans, or other animals, initial sexual orientation is not a choice.

Evandr said:
Homosexuality cannot promote the species.......


Since overpopulation is a big problem in the world, what you said does not make any sense.

Evadr said:
.......and therefore is an ungodly and unwise choice of orientation.


Jesus supposedly said that divorce is wrong except in cases of adultery. In your opinion, is it ungodly and unwise for people to get divorced in cases where there has not been any adultery? Is it ungodly and unwise for people to eat lots of greasy food?

Evandr said:

If one truly cannot choose the correct path and orientation as our creator has indicated it must be then the same is demonstrating a lack of that which is necessary for eternal progression; eternal progression is the driving force behind every commandment we are given. Justifying un-natural cognitive action and orientation by pointing to the actions of dogs and worms is an attempt to place oneself on their level. Dogs and worms will never wield the power of God and neither will those who justify the practice of homosexuality.

It is our goal to become exalted in the presence of God and have everything He has. If we are to do so we must be like Him and He has made it very clear that we are not as the animals, we are His sons and daughters and homosexuality is not an attribute of one who will be given the power of God.


If a God exists, you have not reasonably proven that he is the God of the Bible.







 
This looks like a fine argument against the accuracy of the model itself, since we know from observing reality that people are indeed in need of sex change operations and homoafetivity.

The model you propose questions the existence of those situations. We know they exist. Therefore, the model is faulty.

I couldn't find homoafetivity in the dictionary online. Does that mean something like affection between people of the same sex? You use the word "need" sex change operations. What is the standard by which you judge that someone would have that need?

Again, I want to go back to the point of having to consider the spiritual reality, not only the physical. I know most may not accept this, but those spirits living in the spiritual realm, are attracted to draw near those on earth who have similar personalities and/or life work as they themselves. This is something like a law of karma, in which the spirits seek to continue their spiritual growth by helping others with similar strengths and weaknesses on earth to overcome what they could not. For example, perhaps an Isaac Newton in spirit seeks out a young Einstein to help him in his work. Unfortunately though, if for instance, someone who was a criminal, now in spirit, goes back to someone with the same tendencies as he had, usually that spiritual influence is negative, and only worsens the criminal inclination of the person on earth. It may even be a possessive influence.

All of us have certain personality weaknesses which may be due in part to an inherited spiritual legacy of our ancestors and/or negative experiences in our childhood. All of us are therefore susceptible to be influenced by spirits with the same weaknesses, in the same way that we can also receive the positive help of other spirits. I believe that one of the main reasons that people experience strong same sex attractions when they reach adolescence, or even before, is due to spiritual influence of those who had the same weaknesses and adopted a homosexual lifestyle while they were on earth. Once that sexual urge is acted upon, that spiritual influence only becomes stronger and more possessive. For those who feel they are man, but trapped in a woman's body, it is something similar, but could be a male spirit, probably with some strong resentments, that is seeking to possess a woman on earth. For those of you inclined to believe there is a spiritual realm, and that it is not always positive, it is something to think about.
 

Evandr

Stripling Warrior
According to a National Geographic article at Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate, nearly all bonobo monkeys are bi-sexual. The article also says that many animals practice homosexuality because they find it to be pleasing. That makes sense, including for human homosexuals. Why would human homosexuals want to abstain from having sex? That would frequently cause all sorts of physical and pyschological problems. Even some Christian experts have admitted that reparative therapy is ineffective in the majority of cases, and works best for religiously motivated homosexuals. In addition, the majority of homosexuals would not do very well with abstinence.

Homosexuality in the animal kingdom!





[/font][/color]

If free will exists, it is obvious that any kind of sexual activity between two people is a choice. However, it is well-known that when teenagers feel their first sexual urges, whether heterosexual, homosexual, or bi-sexual, they do not choose which kind of urges appeal to them. Initial sexual orientation is definitely not a choice. Some homosexuals have said that they wanted to change their sexual orientation to heterosexual so that there would be less discrimination against them, and that they were not able to change their sexual orientation.

Whether the issue is humans, or other animals, initial sexual orientation is not a choice.



Since overpopulation is a big problem in the world, what you said does not make any sense.



Jesus supposedly said that divorce is wrong except in cases of adultery. In your opinion, is it ungodly and unwise for people to get divorced in cases where there has not been any adultery? Is it ungodly and unwise for people to eat lots of greasy food?

[/font][/color]

If a God exists, you have not reasonably proven that he is the God of the Bible.

You just do not seem to be getting it - Animals are animals and they act on instinct driven by the need to reproduce; given the right physical and chemical que they will mate with the opposite sex if there is a choice, natural selection keeps the species going because the ones who are not at least smart enough to try to mate with the opposite sex will unlikely sire the next generation. It is ludicrous to equate homosexuality with animals; they have no moral agenda, no sense of right or wrong, good or bad - they just want to dump the urge.

Humans on the other hand are being groomed as the sons and daughters of a living God and therefore are held to an infinitely higher standard of conduct. We have the ability to exercise the thought processes necessary to override the need to act on instinct, We can reason beyond instinct, we comprehend the difference between what is right and what is wrong when it comes to reaching our goals. We are here to see how we will handle what we have been given. Will we seek to act like confused animals or will we seek to measure up to our true potential?

It's funny, the whole argument here seems to be that it is OK to be homosexual because there are lots of different animals that exhibit what could be called, albeit inaccurately, homosexual activity. Well Fine, if it is yiour intent not to rise above the moral intellect of monkeys, sheep, pigeons, and worms then so be it. As for me, I will seek to aspire far above such.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Evandr said:
It's funny, the whole argument here seems to be that it is OK to be homosexual because there are lots of different animals that exhibit what could be called, albeit inaccurately, homosexual activity.

Since you have mentioned religion, and Christianity, the argument is not just about animals.

Humans should not do everything that animals do, but animals should not do everything that humans do either. The only reason that I mentioned animals is because many people claim that homosexuality among humans is not natural, when in fact it is natural because it is found in nature. Homosexuality is widespread among over 1500 species of animals and birds. Some opponents of homosexuality are quite surprised when they find out that over 1500 species of animals and birds practice homosexuality, and in the case of the bonobo monkey, almost exclusively bi-sexuality.

It is not inaccurate to say that animals exhibit homosexuality. Consider the following definition of the word "homosexuality" from an online version of the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"Homosexuality - sexual interest in and attraction to members of one’s own sex."

Animals that practice same-sex behavior certainly have sexual interest in and attraction to members of their own species.

Consider the following definition of the word "homosexuality" from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

"1. Of, or relation to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex

"2. Of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex."

Same-sex behavior among animals certainly involves sexual intercourse.

Do you have any scientific evidence against homosexuality? Please be advised that the following organizations are not opposed to homosexuality, and have issued statements that support it:

American Psychiatric Association
American Psychological Association
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Medical Association
American Academy of Family Physicians
American Anthropological Association
American Sociological Association
 
Last edited:

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Evandr said:
Why do we not see other animals who are known for pair bonding pairing up with others of their own gender?


Non-human animals, regardless of their sexual preference, act on instinct, and do what feels good for them to do. A majority of animals enjoy engaging in opposite-sex behavior because it feels good for them to do so. A minority of animals enjoy engaging in same-sex behavior because it feels good for them to do so. Instinct, plain and simple. How much simpler could it get?

Some long term same-sex pair bonding among non-human animals has been observed by researchers, but not a lot. If animals suddenly became as intelligent as humans are, many homosexual animals would start to have long term relationships.

We see almost all bonobo monkeys practicing bi-sexuality. How do you explain that?

Evandr said:
I submit that homosexuality is the most unnatural tendency that can be socially displayed and sought after.

Please define "natural".
 
Last edited:

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
Humans on the other hand are being groomed as the sons and daughters of a living God and therefore are held to an infinitely higher standard of conduct.


In the eyes of God, homosexuality is conduct-neutral. God doesn't care one way or the other about our sexual preferences.
 

Acim

Revelation all the time
It is ludicrous to equate homosexuality with animals; they have no moral agenda, no sense of right or wrong, good or bad - they just want to dump the urge.

Where previously it was written....

Everyone talks about homosexuality as being "natural" - If that is so why is it only natural to hopmosapiens? Why do we not see other animals who are known for pair bonding pairing up with others of their own gender? Even those who are not known for pair bonding will seek out the opposite sex. Males in everty other species on earth (I do not know of any exceptions) will often fight and sometimes die trying to be the sire to the female population and those who loose out do not turn to each other, they go off and live a life of lone solitude. I submit that homosexuality is the most unnatural tendency that can be socially displayed and sought after.


As I said before, prepare to be updated. You essentially asked for the pairings among animals to be shown to you, it was, and then you are claiming it is ludicrous to bring animals into the debate.

IMO, you dug the hole by claiming (or rather implying) that homosexual behavior among humans is not natural, since other animals (in nature) don't do this.

Humans on the other hand are being groomed as the sons and daughters of a living God and therefore are held to an infinitely higher standard of conduct. We have the ability to exercise the thought processes necessary to override the need to act on instinct, We can reason beyond instinct, we comprehend the difference between what is right and what is wrong when it comes to reaching our goals. We are here to see how we will handle what we have been given. Will we seek to act like confused animals or will we seek to measure up to our true potential?

I would say that if we are here judging fellow humans as 'wrong' and doing anything remotely related to punishment of 'wrong' humans, then we are 'confused animals.' Measuring up to our true potential, as I understand it, would be finding love and teaching love in all situations. Perhaps we are not able to actively teach it in all situations we encounter, but then we could sit back and (joyfully) observe love at work in those situations that once challenged us. And not let superficial distractions (i.e. bodies masking Spirit) cause us to lose Sight of our true nature and true potential.

On a more grounded level, I don't see how bisexual behavior for humans would be, even a little bit, counter productive to the species as a whole. The way I see it, we all have loving impulses toward both genders. But because we can confuse human sexuality with higher purposes of love, we limit our individual and collective understandings of 'natural relations.' An attraction of one male to another male, may not be (I would say likely isn't) initiated as a need to copulate. I think the non-homosexuals get this. But use the same attraction of one male to a female, and understand that is a) natural, but also b) not initiated by need to copulate, and I think heterosexuals can show up just as confused. It comes back to our distortions of love, and understanding higher (or another) purpose for relations and unions.
 

RubyEyes

Truth Seeker
From the starter post:

If one accepts the passages cited as those inspired of god, and their interpretation in accordance with conservative Christian understanding, can anyone explain why the Christian god finds homosexuality "detestable" and worthy of "punishment of eternal fire"?

I know I'm asking people here to second guess god and his reasoning, but because so many Christians are keen to speak for him on numerous issues I figure some here would have a good insight into his thinking. So, Just what is it about showing sexual affection toward someone of the same sex that turns off god? Is it just some eeeeew factor, or does it go deeper than this?
There's no way God could be 'turned off' by homosexuality and no way God could hate anything, specially what He created. That is nonsense, God doesn't hate, humans hate (against God's basic nature and will). Normally we are born of loving heterosexual parents, but we have to be honest to our nature and love extends beyond reproduction. Many people don't want to have children and no one can force them to do so, in the same way no one can force a gay person to live a lie. God is not the uncaring tyrant some extremists make Him look like. But sadly hate is another true human weakness.
 

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
Evandr said:
Humans on the other hand are being groomed as the sons and daughters of a living God and therefore are held to an infinitely higher standard of conduct.

If a God exists, he has not made any reasonably provable comments about homosexuality in person, or through human proxies.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Humans on the other hand are being groomed as the sons and daughters of a living God and therefore are held to an infinitely higher standard of conduct.


yes of course...treat others the way you like to be treated...

luke 6:27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.


:foot:
 
Last edited:

crocusj

Active Member
From the starter post:

There's no way God could be 'turned off' by homosexuality and no way God could hate anything, specially what He created. That is nonsense, God doesn't hate, humans hate (against God's basic nature and will). Normally we are born of loving heterosexual parents, but we have to be honest to our nature and love extends beyond reproduction. Many people don't want to have children and no one can force them to do so, in the same way no one can force a gay person to live a lie. God is not the uncaring tyrant some extremists make Him look like. But sadly hate is another true human weakness.
It is hardly extremist to hold a mirror to god:

"Into your hands I commend my spirit; you will redeem me, LORD, faithful God. You hate those who serve worthless idols, but I trust in the LORD." [Ps. 31:5-6]
"You are not a god who delights in evil; no wicked person finds refuge with you; the arrogant cannot stand before you. You [God] hate all who do evil;" [Ps. 5:4-5]
"But this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, vengeance on his foes! — The sword devours, is sated, drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts holds a slaughter feast" [Jer. 46:10]
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." [Mt. 25:41]

Spare me from this non-hate then. My personal favourite is the "slaughter feast". Of course, none of the above may be your actual God talking but it is hardly extremist to point these things out since they are all we have to go on.
 

RubyEyes

Truth Seeker
It is hardly extremist to hold a mirror to god:

"Into your hands I commend my spirit; you will redeem me, LORD, faithful God. You hate those who serve worthless idols, but I trust in the LORD." [Ps. 31:5-6]
"You are not a god who delights in evil; no wicked person finds refuge with you; the arrogant cannot stand before you. You [God] hate all who do evil;" [Ps. 5:4-5]
"But this is the day of the Lord GOD of hosts, a day of vengeance, vengeance on his foes! — The sword devours, is sated, drunk with their blood: for the Lord GOD of hosts holds a slaughter feast" [Jer. 46:10]
"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." [Mt. 25:41]

You are holding a mirror to transcriptions of very old peoples which tried to portray something fitting their time, place and their society's values. Just that. God can't loathe evil, but evil is saddening. Evil is disappointment to God.

Spare me from this non-hate then. My personal favourite is the "slaughter feast".

Actually you don't have to listen to that if you don't want to. Human writers will always put human emotions, but it only takes common sense to realize that what is thought worth hating by a mortal is not so by a creator deity. In fact, nothing is worth hating, hating is a vile sentiment. What we should learn from wars is that they bring pain and chaos, and go against life - and life, peaceful life, is what God actually wants, and the big message He tries to give us.

Of course, none of the above may be your actual God talking but it is hardly extremist to point these things out since they are all we have to go on.

Is it hardly extremist? So is it normal to go out there having a 'slaughter feast', as you pointed out? No sane person does that.
 

crocusj

Active Member
You are holding a mirror to transcriptions of very old peoples which tried to portray something fitting their time, place and their society's values. Just that.
Says who?

Actually you don't have to listen to that if you don't want to. Human writers will always put human emotions, but it only takes common sense to realize that what is thought worth hating by a mortal is not so by a creator deity. In fact, nothing is worth hating, hating is a vile sentiment. What we should learn from wars is that they bring pain and chaos, and go against life - and life, peaceful life, is what God actually wants, and the big message He tries to give us.
Again, says who? The OP emphasised acceptance of these passages as at least being inspired by God, if this can be replaced by "common sense" what place the bible at all? As for wars, his big message was that he will wage war and slaughter until his chosen people prevail and while it is true that they bring pain he did seem happy to bring it on. Or is this just more human writing without actual god. Just exactly where is your god in any of this writing? If he is in none of it (and I see no reason why you should be allowed to cherry pick here) does that mean there is no Hell?

Is it hardly extremist? So is it normal to go out there having a 'slaughter feast', as you pointed out? No sane person does that
Are you not missing the point here? Why am I extremist for pointing out a biblical quote that mentions God's slaughter feast as an example of his tyranny. You said extremists point the finger due to these acts and yet admit yourself that the actions are insane. One of us is getting our perpetrators mixed up here and it ain't me.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
RubyEyes said:
There's no way God could be 'turned off' by homosexuality and no way God could hate anything, specially what He created. That is nonsense, God doesn't hate, humans hate (against God's basic nature and will).
Proverbs 6:16-19

16 There are six things the LORD hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.
God is not the uncaring tyrant some extremists make Him look like. But sadly hate is another true human weakness.
Nice non-sequitur. :facepalm:
 

RubyEyes

Truth Seeker
Says who?

I said that. I don't worship barbarics nor warmongers. My God is loving.

Again, says who? The OP emphasised acceptance of these passages as at least being inspired by God, if this can be replaced by "common sense" what place the bible at all?

The Bible is a book. A book written by humans. If these humans were warmongers, what'd you expect? No hippies and no greenpeace by that time.

As for wars, his big message was that he will wage war and slaughter until his chosen people prevail and while it is true that they bring pain he did seem happy to bring it on. Or is this just more human writing without actual god. Just exactly where is your god in any of this writing?

I haven't read the Bible, to be honest, but I can already tell you (and you know) that the OT is violent in some parts. If the violence was unnecessary, then that is clearly not God.

If he is in none of it (and I see no reason why you should be allowed to cherry pick here) does that mean there is no Hell?

Cherry pick what? I don't worship books either. The big picture I referred to was Jesus' resurrection and His message of love.

I don't know about Hell, everyone will certainly be given what they deserve. Judgement is God's task, not mine.

Are you not missing the point here? Why am I extremist for pointing out a biblical quote that mentions God's slaughter feast as an example of his tyranny. You said extremists point the finger due to these acts and yet admit yourself that the actions are insane. One of us is getting our perpetrators mixed up here and it ain't me.

I didn't say you are extremist. I said that how can that verse not be extremist. Your response made it look like you thought that verse was something normal.

To Skwim:

Skwim said:
Nice non-sequitur.

I guess the nonsequitur is only yours for imposing the Bible on me. If it is not authority for you, why do you think it is for me?
 

crocusj

Active Member
I said that. I don't worship barbarics nor warmongers. My God is loving.



The Bible is a book. A book written by humans. If these humans were warmongers, what'd you expect? No hippies and no greenpeace by that time.



I haven't read the Bible, to be honest, but I can already tell you (and you know) that the OT is violent in some parts. If the violence was unnecessary, then that is clearly not God.



Cherry pick what? I don't worship books either. The big picture I referred to was Jesus' resurrection and His message of love.

I don't know about Hell, everyone will certainly be given what they deserve. Judgement is God's task, not mine.



I didn't say you are extremist. I said that how can that verse not be extremist. Your response made it look like you thought that verse was something normal.

To Skwim:



I guess the nonsequitur is only yours for imposing the Bible on me. If it is not authority for you, why do you think it is for me?

Clearly we have made an erroneous assumption here that your god is the god of the Bible. That is obviously not the case and his word reaches you in a different way. Given the wording of the OP and that you are a Christian and that the only mention of the resurrection of Jesus is biblical you can see why we would be confused.
 

RubyEyes

Truth Seeker
Clearly we have made an erroneous assumption here that your god is the god of the Bible. That is obviously not the case and his word reaches you in a different way. Given the wording of the OP and that you are a Christian and that the only mention of the resurrection of Jesus is biblical you can see why we would be confused.

I notice a great difference between the Old and the New Testament. I believe in Jesus and I believe the Bible is not any book, but some parts of it simply cannot be divine, they are the product of its human writers. That is what I believe.
 

Yanni

Active Member
The reason why God in the Torah forbids gay activity is simple. First of all, nowhere in the Torah does it say that a person cannot be attracted to the same sex. To non-homosexuals, this attraction seems completely unnatural. God created the world with most species having male and female counterparts. The reason for that is because God wants the world to be populated. Indeed, there is a commandment in the Torah (actually the very first commandment in the Torah) is to attempt to have children. Saying that, no man has an excuse (unless he's ill or something) to not get married and attempt to raise a family. A man may have an attraction to another man. If you even want (in private) you can hug him. However, the Torah states explicitly that it is FORBIDDEN for a man to lie with another man as a man would lie with a woman (i.e. having anal sex). That act is strictly forbidden by the Torah, and by God's law (in ancient times) men who rebelled against God's command were put to death. (Now, I'm not suggesting that people today who perform that act should be put to death; NO ONE today has that power; only the direct order from God gave the ancient Jews the right to do that). If everyone in the world was gay, then how would the world be populated? Indeed, by Jewish tradition, the Talmud states that the single event in Noah's time that caused God to finally decide to destroy the world with the Flood (He was already very upset), among other reasons, was when men were writing marriage contracts (whatever they were in those days) between each other. Unfortunately today, we see gay marriage being accepted in many parts of the world, and I guarantee you, God is upset.
In any case, the simple reason why men cannot have anal sex is because God commanded that they can't. Just like any other restriction made by God (which because of our limited human intelligence, we can't perceive as good and for our ultimate benefit), God is the Supreme Creator and Ruler of the Universe. He created us against our will and one day He will remove us from this world against our will. Just as a human king commands and the people must obey, so, too, when the King of the Universe commands something, we must obey. Every moment that a gay couple refrains from having anal sex, they earn unimaginable eternal reward. That's what the commandments are given to us for: God wants us to earn eternal reward, and our Sages say one moment in the World to Come is greater than all the pleasures of all the thousands of years from the beginning of Creation placed into a bottle. If one views these restrictions as GOOD, then it'll be easier to cope with them. God is not evil; it's what WE perceive as good that may very well be evil.
 
Last edited:

waitasec

Veteran Member
God created the world with most species having male and female counterparts. The reason for that is because God wants the world to be populated. Indeed, there is a commandment in the Torah (actually the very first commandment in the Torah) is to attempt to have children.
and the purpose for infertility is?
In any case, the simple reason why men cannot have anal sex is because God commanded that they can't.

what about lesbians?
 

Yanni

Active Member
Waitasec, infertility is an unfortunate occurrence that sometimes plague couples who want to have children. In Orthodox Judaism, the only solution is to sincerely ask God everyday to grant them children. Since God knows what's best for us, He may answer yes and He may answer no. Couples, in the context of marriage alone, may have sex even if they are infertile. The concept is that they have to "attempt" to have children. By God's grace (and He's done miracles in the past), they will merit to have children.
Now, regarding lesbians, the Torah does NOT say that two women cannot give each other pleasure. By Jewish tradition, the command to have children is specifically on the man, and not on the woman. Also, men, by Jewish tradition, are forbidden from ejaculating in vain (i.e. not inside a woman). Therefore, masturbation (for a man) is forbidden (if he ejaculates). Women don't have that restriction because they don't provide the sperm. And if someone will ask what the reason is behind all this, I will answer I don't have to know a reason, because I KNOW that everything God says and does is for my (and everyone's) ultimate benefit.
 
Top