sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Oh ye of little understanding.
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God's Trinity
- Thread starter serioja7
- Start date
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
Pegg, yours is my favorite answer.get ready for 5,000 pages
I will not even attempt to give an exhaustive answer. It seems to me that the New Testament does not place as much emphasis on the Three-in-one Godhead: Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, as some modern day evangelicals do. The New Testament does not use the word Trinity. So the word 'Trinity' may have picked up some historical significance along the way, as A LOT of historical doctrines have. I do agree though with John 10:30 and John 1:1-14.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I don't need scripture. I know that human nature is sinful.
Muffled
Jesus in me
Jesus intimates otherwise.
God is omnipresent but the Paraclete is the Spirit of God controlling a person's mind and body, something God doesn't do unless the person gives him permission (unlike demons who possess without permission).
You are simply wrong. The only definition of persons that fits is the ecclesiastical one which means that it is not the same meaning as the word "person" used by any one else. (They could have called it three urghs; it would be less confusing) I doubt that the Father and the Son play any personal role in our lives but influence our lives by what is recorded that they said in the Bible. Of course that will change when Jesus returns.
Muffled
Jesus in me
The Father always exists.
A physical body has physical requirements. No-one is ever separated from the Father because He is omni-present. Jesus retains the Distinction from the Father of being in a body.
Set theory taught at the High School level.
That is like saying to stay awake you should go to sleep.
Shermana
Heretic
Ok, I know that human nature is sinful. But if you don't have proof that even the true prophets were rewriting the scripture to suit what they wanted, you might not want to assert things you can't back up. I disagree with the claim, I think the prophets would know better than to rewrite what they were given, and it would be later redactors who would redact it.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The prophets, themselves, likely didn't write anything. Their messages were likely oral, and written down later.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I appreciate that. You run on like a preacher, lol.
That seems to be a rather general statement. There is no doubt in my mind that each member has its own emphasis even if all three aren't tied together very often. I think that Jesus puts great importance on it in John 14 as He ties everything together for his disciples in preparation for His departure.
Posters have said the same thing about the Rapture. I think it is helpful to have one term that covers a discrete concept.
Shermana
Heretic
John 14 is where Jesus explains that he is the representative of the Father, he is the "image" as Paul says, but He is still not the Father himself. "The Father is greater than I am", 14:28. And the word "Greater" here is like when Jesus says "None born of woman are greater than John the baptist".
e.r.m.
Church of Christ
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
That's because Jesus is clearly not the Father, because he's the Son.
Shermana
Heretic
Yes, and therefore, the Trinity is wrong, because the Son and the Father are not the same being.
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sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Yes they are. One being -- three Persons.:beach:
Shermana
Heretic
Have we established yet what exactly a "person" is and how the word "person" means something different than "being" or if there's a special one-time-definition of the word "person" to fit the concept? If a person has Multiple Personality Syndrome, does that mean there are multiple persons in the same being?
I see the "person' thing so many times, but strangely it never ever seems to get defined to something that actually fits.
quote]
Thank you Bob, this has helped me
Ok I think I could say something given that people seem to want to know this dearly.
Spirits are inclinations, this is the point of view of us of the material world, this is the most make sense approach at least for me.
Now matters are words, or set of orders, just like programs. But these set of orders came from inclinations, for example atomic nucleus, we can see that protons are inclined to stick together, and electrons tend to orbit the nucleus not just went away from it chaoticly.
Therefore everything in the universe are regulated in the spirit. Again, spirits are inclinations. The foundations of all spirits must be, the inclination to incline. The opponent of the foundation is the inclination to not incline. Then inclinations would brought about laws, the spirit of inclining would brought about the law "to incline". And then the spirit would have a son, the son would be the inclination to obey the law of the father, that is the inclination to obey the law to incline.
The son is similar but is not the father because the father is the source of law, while the son is the spirit to obey the law.
THen came the spirit not to mix with the opponent.
These all happened and grow, as one spirits gave new laws, and gave born to new spirits, there are material or earthly spirits that experienced priorities, that is...
The spirit of order, the law is to be in order, but this law must prioritize, to be in order of sustainability, or to be in order of total destruction. So earthly matters are those that could shift priorities.
I still looking for more explanation but reality tells that eventually time started, the before and after, interactions, light and then darkness and then light again.
And as time goes on new inclinations were born, now we have the spirit of playing video games, the spirit of using facebook, the spirit of gravity, the spirit of magnetism. And these are all earthly spirits / worldly spirits, the indecisive.
Well but maybe I'm wrong...
Edit: 2 spirits or more could work together to create new laws, for example the spirit of making people smart and the spirit of taking care of children gave rise to the law of children must go to school, and then gave rise to the spirit of making it easier for children to go to school, gave rise to the usage of school bus... etc.
Spirits are inclinations, this is the point of view of us of the material world, this is the most make sense approach at least for me.
Now matters are words, or set of orders, just like programs. But these set of orders came from inclinations, for example atomic nucleus, we can see that protons are inclined to stick together, and electrons tend to orbit the nucleus not just went away from it chaoticly.
Therefore everything in the universe are regulated in the spirit. Again, spirits are inclinations. The foundations of all spirits must be, the inclination to incline. The opponent of the foundation is the inclination to not incline. Then inclinations would brought about laws, the spirit of inclining would brought about the law "to incline". And then the spirit would have a son, the son would be the inclination to obey the law of the father, that is the inclination to obey the law to incline.
The son is similar but is not the father because the father is the source of law, while the son is the spirit to obey the law.
THen came the spirit not to mix with the opponent.
These all happened and grow, as one spirits gave new laws, and gave born to new spirits, there are material or earthly spirits that experienced priorities, that is...
The spirit of order, the law is to be in order, but this law must prioritize, to be in order of sustainability, or to be in order of total destruction. So earthly matters are those that could shift priorities.
I still looking for more explanation but reality tells that eventually time started, the before and after, interactions, light and then darkness and then light again.
And as time goes on new inclinations were born, now we have the spirit of playing video games, the spirit of using facebook, the spirit of gravity, the spirit of magnetism. And these are all earthly spirits / worldly spirits, the indecisive.
Well but maybe I'm wrong...
Edit: 2 spirits or more could work together to create new laws, for example the spirit of making people smart and the spirit of taking care of children gave rise to the law of children must go to school, and then gave rise to the spirit of making it easier for children to go to school, gave rise to the usage of school bus... etc.
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TruthSetsYouFree
Member
Did u know islam is the only no christian religion that belives and respects Jesus Christ. No muslim is a muslim if he does not believe in Jesus Christ.
However we do not belive Jesus was god but he was snet by god as amessenger
Jesus never taugh trinty, it is nowhere to be found in the bible.
Why would god give u something u can't understand and then link it ur salvation
However we do not belive Jesus was god but he was snet by god as amessenger
Jesus never taugh trinty, it is nowhere to be found in the bible.
Why would god give u something u can't understand and then link it ur salvation
TruthSetsYouFree
Member
Did Adam worship Jesus christ.
No he worshipped God
Both Moses and Jesus as prophets and messengers said Hear o Israel your lord our god is ONE GOD
ANd the final prophet also was told by God to Say That God is One and Only without any partners in worship. Jesus was created and we should not worship the creation but we should worship the creator.
No he worshipped God
Both Moses and Jesus as prophets and messengers said Hear o Israel your lord our god is ONE GOD
ANd the final prophet also was told by God to Say That God is One and Only without any partners in worship. Jesus was created and we should not worship the creation but we should worship the creator.
I think that when some humans were united with God, they also are going to be worshipped. The truth is God we should worship the truth and pray to the truth, love is God, the holy spirit is God. The father would have no identity without the holy spirit, and the father would have no body/matter/system if there were no son. This make up a God and is one.
God is not Satan.
Edit: God is also not sinful humans.
My current theory is, Humans must pay to God, Humans must pay to Satan for all the services they use. "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's give back to God what is God's". Jesus was the spirit to obey the father, a system that truly adhere to God, a dear to God, just like the pure lamb is a dear to a shepherd and is expensive.
If Jesus was not killed, he would've subdued and made evil totally unprioritized in the world, including evil humans which means all other humans. But because people killed Him, it had became a form of payment to the Devil forever.
We can't pay God, the only way to be at peace with God is if we became one of Him. To be part of the system we must obey the laws of God, not of Satan's. But which is from God and which are not, that's determined by the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus, humans could not access the Holy Spirit intimately, I have more explanation on this if you're interested in my theory...
God is not Satan.
Edit: God is also not sinful humans.
My current theory is, Humans must pay to God, Humans must pay to Satan for all the services they use. "Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's give back to God what is God's". Jesus was the spirit to obey the father, a system that truly adhere to God, a dear to God, just like the pure lamb is a dear to a shepherd and is expensive.
If Jesus was not killed, he would've subdued and made evil totally unprioritized in the world, including evil humans which means all other humans. But because people killed Him, it had became a form of payment to the Devil forever.
We can't pay God, the only way to be at peace with God is if we became one of Him. To be part of the system we must obey the laws of God, not of Satan's. But which is from God and which are not, that's determined by the Holy Spirit. Before Jesus, humans could not access the Holy Spirit intimately, I have more explanation on this if you're interested in my theory...
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dishcandanty
New Member
Trinity? I don't buy it at all. I fully respect the doctrine. But, I don't believe that God wants us to be so thoroughly confused about who He is, and who His Son is either. Here is a except from Matthew. I revised it into the Trinity version:
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw himself, descending like a dove, upon himself. And lo his voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is my beloved self, in whom im well pleased.'"
Define God:Organization of three Divine beings. Unless you want to use the term God as a title. They aren't the same person.
Melki, Im interested in what you believe about the Holy Spirit not being accessible. I agree, it seems to me to be abundantly clear, that Christ promised the Holy Spirit after he left. And that it couldn't be until after he had come. I have some other thoughts on that as well.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw himself, descending like a dove, upon himself. And lo his voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is my beloved self, in whom im well pleased.'"
Define God:Organization of three Divine beings. Unless you want to use the term God as a title. They aren't the same person.
Melki, Im interested in what you believe about the Holy Spirit not being accessible. I agree, it seems to me to be abundantly clear, that Christ promised the Holy Spirit after he left. And that it couldn't be until after he had come. I have some other thoughts on that as well.