Going topless, an equal rights issue

[Me Myself]

So we cannot say the word ***, even as the animal?

And that is the infringement upon freedom of speech that needs to end.

The boards doesn`t acknowledge a 100% freedom of speech nor needs to. The ryules are in the rules section, and if they want to disallow a word they can.

If you want to discuss this, get a thread

 

[InfidelRiot]

If you want to discuss this, get a thread

I have no problems biting that tongue.

 

[Me Myself]

I have no problems biting that tongue.

Seems imposible to me. o.0

In any case, seriously, if you wish do the thread, and if you please answer my questions about the actuall subject of this OP

Why should there be any legality concerning how naked we are? Why is it legaly bad that men be turned on by the bare boobed ladies?

Why? what right of others would a woman being chest nude be infringing?

 

[InfidelRiot]

If it is a question about legality, then why not make it about also showing everything one owns? If we're speaking equal territory here, it will always be a matter of breasts versus pectorals. As I mentioned already, and the legal fact cannot be ignored, that the breasts are equated with male version of penis.

 

[Me Myself]

If it is a question about legality, then why not make it about also showing everything one owns? If we're speaking equal territory here, it will always be a matter of breasts versus pectorals. As I mentioned already, and the legal fact cannot be ignored, that the breasts are equated with male version of penis.

If that were so then women should be able to show vagina

I agree that boobs are more related to being far more sexual than pecs, but there is no reason for that to matter at all. And if they were exacvtly the same, then we would see weird penis cleavages or something like that on the streets o.0.

They are not at all the same. Sure, (generaly) consideredsexier than male pecs but obviously not as inadequate as penis/vagina in public places, and the fact that the law of "It`s sexy so bad" is so ridiculous in the first place makes it obvious that a woman should have no less rights on being bare chest than a man simply because the culture has made it so that theya re generaly percieved as incredibly sexy.

I still don`t see your argument.

How does "too sexy" equals ilegal? I find it so entertaining in a way we are talking about "fashion police" here

 

[InfidelRiot]

we are talking about "fashion police" here

You obviously do not watch project runway, but then I guess that is why the show has TIm Gunn.

The fact that you can even equate nakedness with fashion shows how much you know about anything.

Bring your brain into the debate, rather than those silly tongues, and we might be able to have a decent debate.

 

[Me Myself]

You obviously do not watch project runway, but then I guess that is why the show has TIm Gunn.

The fact that you can even equate nakedness with fashion shows how much you know about anything.

Bring your brain into the debate, rather than those silly tongues, and we might be able to have a decent debate.

While I havew no problem with some poisoning the well here and there when it is funny:

1- "bring the brain" is a poor man`s atempt of sounding inteligent and it is unwitty anyways.

2- If you don`t actually debate it only looks bad on you.

Again:

Why is nakedness important? You just posted a tiny part of what I actually said. If I had only said about fasshion police your post would still be insatisfactory, but I even posted way more.

If you are going to pretend to be smarter than me you will have to at least attempt to provide some insight on the subject. Without this attempt... Well, you may very well make a "unwitty comebacks" thread in the jokes and games section

 

[Cassiopia]

So women shouldn't take any responsibility for making men as horny as possible as often as possible?
My main objection is toward the sex crazed society. I think it causes a lot of problems. And it's only natural that the more body you show, the more thoughts of sex and lust will increase.

Most men can control themselves when they see women wearing tank tops. But it still causes arousal and from what I've been told by some guys, it very much leads to the culture of casual sex, cheating and all the problems associated with that.

Why should women take all the responsibility and men take none? Granted, that has often been the way of things but we are living in the 21st century and this attitude has to die. It seem as women we still have a lot of rights to fight for.
If I choose to get an all over tan, why should I have to concern myself with the possibility that "some" men may not be able to control themselves? And where does that argument end? Does a woman deserve to be raped because she wears sexy clothes or no clothes? NO!
If men have a problem controlling their thoughts and their actions, that is their problem and should not be ours. And if some of them hurt us because they can't control themselves they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Why should we have to take responsibility for a man feeling horny. That's akin to arguing it's a woman's fault if she's sexually harassed because she happened to be wearing a tank top that exposed some cleavage. We have a sex crazed society because it's considered "dirty" and "something to keep hidden" which naturally hightens the allure and the curiosity. Besides if a guy gets horny for whatever reason that's for him to deal with and I really don't see why that in and of itself should be a problem or give cause for us to "cover up". If he uses his horniness as an excusse to harrass a woman then he's being a jerk and should be punished for it but that also doesn't mean we should need to cover up as a result. And I'd say the culture of casual sex has a lot to do with poor education about sex and the oversexualization of the media while cheating is a far more complicated issue but I imagine a lot of it harkens to mysoginistic perceptions. You honestly think instances of casual sex and cheating are going to go up simply because women are allowed to walk topless down the street just like a man is?

This.:clap

Can men control their thoughts? Are men really in control of how they feel and how seeing naked women makes them feel? Should a person's sexual nature just be ignored? I don't think that's fair to men.

And what about being fair to women?
A person's sexual nature should not be ignored, it should be celebrated. We all have a sexual nature. But equally we all have the ability to control ourselves, and those who haven't should be locked up.

There should be no clothing laws for anyone, period. Don't the police have criminals to catch? Do you need the government to tell you what to wear? I sure don't.

Agreed.

So we cannot say the word ***, even as the animal?

And that is the infringement upon freedom of speech that needs to end.

I don't agree with anything else you have said in this thread, but I do agree with this. Sexual words should not be banned unless they are used in a rude or derogatory way.

To answer the original question, of course women should have the right to go topless and where that right does not exist it is indeed an equal rights issue.

Here in Europe we are slightly less prudish about such things than seems to be the case in America and some other parts of the world. There normally are beaches and other places where women can go topless if they want. I have been to such places myself and generally they are not full of sex crazed men who can't control themselves.

 

[Madhuri]

Why should women take all the responsibility and men take none? Granted, that has often been the way of things but we are living in the 21st century and this attitude has to die. It seem as women we still have a lot of rights to fight for.
If I choose to get an all over tan, why should I have to concern myself with the possibility that "some" men may not be able to control themselves? And where does that argument end? Does a woman deserve to be raped because she wears sexy clothes or no clothes? NO!
If men have a problem controlling their thoughts and their actions, that is their problem and should not be ours. And if some of them hurt us because they can't control themselves they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I equate this sort of argument to that one where when a man teases a lion and the lion attacks and kills him, the lion is then put down. How stupid to think the lion wouldn't or shouldn't act on its nature.

I'm not talking about rape. I'm talking about the natural lustful thoughts and feelings that arise in a man when he sees something sexually stimulating. Ie/ a woman's body. Especially certain parts of her body. To think that men should 'control their thoughts and feelings' is actually stupid if those thoughts and feelings are completely natural.

I don't think it's surprising that some men end up harassing women (still not talking about rape) if they are constantly exposed to sexual stimulus but have no outlet.

The reason why encouraging lustful thoughts and feelings in this context is negative, imo, is because it adds to our sex obsessed culture, which includes the sexual freedoms of casual relations, objectification and shallow consciousness.

Now as I've made clear in earlier posts, my point is not that women should not have exposed breasts. My point is that to change the way men inevitably react to seeing nakedness in cultures like the USA and Aus etc. the taking off more clothing idea is not going to solve our social and sexual issues. something else in the way our culture conditions our sexual psychology needs to change. Otherwise, places where women are topless will become sightseeing for horny men.

And what about being fair to women?
A person's sexual nature should not be ignored, it should be celebrated. We all have a sexual nature. But equally we all have the ability to control ourselves, and those who haven't should be locked up.

I really don't see being naked in public an important issue for female sexual nature. I don't feel repressed because I wear clothing. It's not unhealthy for us to have our breasts covered by clothing. This is so not an issue.

 

[methylatedghosts]

If it is a question about legality, then why not make it about also showing everything one owns?

That could be done.
There is no statute law in NZ that prohibits public nudity
Intro - Lets Get Naked
Note particularly:
In 1990 New Zealand enacted a statute to affirm recognition of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and the Universal Declaration of Human Right, which both declare the human person to have inherent dignity and worth. That statute is the Bill of Rights Act. The qualities of ‘dignity and worth’ obviously must apply to the complete human person. If it is not*the whole person, it is meaningless! Therefore no part of the being which has inherent dignity and worth can be rationally determined to be an attack on society. No mere part of a human form can rationally ‘offend’ or ‘disorder’ the average reasonable person as conflated with the Bill of Rights. If that average reasonable person, that is, the Bill of Rights Act, is not offended or disordered, a reaction that is inconsistent with that now defined norm must be forensically unreasonable and thus disregarded.

If we're speaking equal territory here, it will always be a matter of breasts versus pectorals. As I mentioned already, and the legal fact cannot be ignored, that the breasts are equated with male version of penis.

I fail to see how someone can equate breasts with penises. I would have thought the penis counterpart to have been the vagina.
I suppose some people could just be a little dim...

 

[Cassiopia]

I feel like saying sorry because I really like your posts normally but in this case I couldn't disagree with you more!

I equate this sort of argument to that one where when a man teases a lion and the lion attacks and kills him, the lion is then put down. How stupid to think the lion wouldn't or shouldn't act on its nature.

Sorry but we are not talking about one species deliberately setting out to provoke another species; we are talking about women having to restrict themselves for fear of provoking men's lust beyond control. I find that argument derogatory to both men and women. Women should be able to express themselves as they wish, and men in general are NOT monsters who are unable to control their instincts.

I'm not talking about rape. I'm talking about the natural lustful thoughts and feelings that arise in a man when he sees something sexually stimulating. Ie/ a woman's body. Especially certain parts of her body. To think that men should 'control their thoughts and feelings' is actually stupid if those thoughts and feelings are completely natural.

Sorry but my rape argument still stands.
Women are not responsible for how men react to stimuli of any sort, men are. I know you are not talking about rape but the problem is that I have heard of many cases where men have used exactly the argument you are making to justify rape or other mistreatment of women.
"Oh she was dressed provocatively, so she was asking for it!"
Pleeeze!!

I don't think it's surprising that some men end up harassing women (still not talking about rape) if they are constantly exposed to sexual stimulus but have no outlet.

Please stop making excuses for that minority of men who have no self control. Most men ARE able to function quite normally even in a sexually charged situation.

The reason why encouraging lustful thoughts and feelings in this context is negative, imo, is because it adds to our sex obsessed culture, which includes the sexual freedoms of casual relations, objectification and shallow consciousness.

Perhaps I understand you and agree that "some" aspects of society have become too sexualized. But not all. We are among many other things, sexual beings and we should not have to hide or be ashamed of that fact.

Now as I've made clear in earlier posts, my point is not that women should not have exposed breasts. My point is that to change the way men inevitably react to seeing nakedness in cultures like the USA and Aus etc. the taking off more clothing idea is not going to solve our social and sexual issues. something else in the way our culture conditions our sexual psychology needs to change.

While we are governed by our most conservative and reactionary fears nothing will change. A century ago most women couldn't vote or work. Things changed because women fought for those rights and did those things.

Otherwise, places where women are topless will become sightseeing for horny men.

There is no evidence for that. As I said, such places already exist and they are NOT full of dirty old men.

I really don't see being naked in public an important issue for female sexual nature. I don't feel repressed because I wear clothing. It's not unhealthy for us to have our breasts covered by clothing. This is so not an issue.

For you maybe.
For myself I certainly would and do feel repressed if I don't have the same rights as the male half of our species.
I generally don't want to go around topless in public, but I absolutely demand the right to do so if I choose.

 

[Madhuri]

I feel like saying sorry because I really like your posts normally but in this case I couldn't disagree with you more!

We're bound to disagree on something. This is a topic for me that I struggle with because I have limited experience.

Sorry but we are not talking about one species deliberately setting out to provoke another species; we are talking about women having to restrict themselves for fear of provoking men's lust beyond control. I find that argument derogatory to both men and women. Women should be able to express themselves as they wish, and men in general are NOT monsters who are unable to control their instincts.

I don't think men are monsters for having strong sexual impulses. If he sees lots of beautiful naked women and it makes him sexually liberal because that's a lot easier in this context than trying to be sexually responsible and then he catches some horrible infection, gets a girl pregnant, and struggles with maintaining long term relationships throughout his lifetime, that's a problem. And that's a problem a very great deal of people have in our modern society.

I'm very pessimistic about this aspect of modern culture because I see it everywhere. Just about every single person is affected by one of these things.

Sorry but my rape argument still stands.
Women are not responsible for how men react to stimuli of any sort, men are. I know you are not talking about rape but the problem is that I have heard of many cases where men have used exactly the argument you are making to justify rape or other mistreatment of women.
"Oh she was dressed provocatively, so she was asking for it!"
Pleeeze!!

I'm really not talking about any spontaneous behaviour. I'm more talking about culture and the way all the little things we see and do affect our overall behaviour. See my above rant about sexual liberty.

Please stop making excuses for that minority of men who have no self control. Most men ARE able to function quite normally even in a sexually charged situation.

See my above comment. You know, a few different guys have told me that seeing a beautiful female, especially one exposing more flesh, is like seeing delicious food, being really hungry, but not being able to eat it. It makes the guy think about sex more, be more inclined to get it where he can, and be more inclined to want to have sex with multiple persons (which can include cheating).

I'm sure its already hard enough to be a man and in control of lust. I don't see why I have to make it more difficult for them. And for me personally, I really want to find a monogamous mate who is unwavered by the sight of other women. But this is especially impossible to expect in a society where naked women prance about.

Perhaps I understand you and agree that "some" aspects of society have become too sexualized. But not all. We are among many other things, sexual beings and we should not have to hide or be ashamed of that fact.

Being a sexual being is nothing to be ashamed about.
However this argument contradicts your rape argument. In nature, a male expresses his sexual nature by raping the female he is stimulated by. Civilised man learns to control this, learning that it is bad.

Just because something is natural doesn't mean we should do it. For the same reason that men need to control their desires, I don't see why women should feel the right to do whatever they want without repercussion. If dressing to reduce the overall stimulation that men are overwhelmed with daily is our tiny sacrifice, maybe we should just do that.

I would like to point out at this point that my opinion is largely based on how guys, past partners and friends and also onliners here, have expressed their particular experiences. If most men said that seeing breasts wasn't particularly stimulating, that it didn't really make them want to have sex, that it isn't difficult to deal with the constant stimulus without a proper form of release and that they did not feel inclined to objectify women due to our physical exposure, then I would not have any issue.

While we are governed by our most conservative and reactionary fears nothing will change. A century ago most women couldn't vote or work. Things changed because women fought for those rights and did those things.

Well sure. But in this case women should be fighting for change in the way breasts are sexualised and the way women are objectified. As I said earlier, just taking more clothing off won't change that.

Nudity may not be something to be feared in Europe, but Europe is very sexually liberal. I've been to Italy many times, seen many topless women on the beaches and even on tv ads years ago. And yet it's practically expected by all men and women over there that men will cheat. And my Italian cousin told me that Italian women are even more sexually liberal than the men these days. While you and many others may see this as perfectly fine, I can't help seeing the incredible social problems associated with it. I am not a fan of casual sex. I think it is very destructive to society and I've been personally damaged by it.

For you maybe.
For myself I certainly would and do feel repressed if I don't have the same rights as the male half of our species.
I generally don't want to go around topless in public, but I absolutely demand the right to do so if I choose.

Is it really about equality though? What if we restricted men from being able to remove clothing in public? Would you be happy with that?

I'm not attached to being able to show arms, legs, boobs etc. I just think when it comes to problems people face, it is so incredibly insignificant. But that's just me.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Can men control their thoughts? Are men really in control of how they feel and how seeing naked women makes them feel? Should a person's sexual nature just be ignored? I don't think that's fair to men.

It's more than fair. It's giving them complete responsibility for their thoughts and actions.

In other words, it views them and treats them as grown adults and not as little bratty boys.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I urge people to talk about nude resorts, and what happens there before discussing how people SHOULD or SHOULDN'T dress in public, and how men naturally react when they seeing naked breasts.

Also....I have a lot of experience in the theatre where we had no choice but to strip naked backstage for a quick costume change in between pieces. We all went through the cultural paradigm shift where nudity equated to something taboo, and literally got over it in 5 minutes.

My husband....who at one point in his life admits he used to think the exact same way as others who insist men think lustful thoughts when they look at naked women.....came to visit me backstage in the makeup alley. He saw half naked and naked women walking around getting ready for the show.

He didn't know what to think of it until he realized that nobody there was trying to turn him on.

He got over it in 5 minutes too, and now thinks the nudity = sex equation is absurd. And I know my husband.....he LOVES women's bodies and he LOVES sex.

So, the argument against women going topless at least from my own 30+ years in show business where nudity is normal....is complete and utter bunk.

 

[Cassiopia]

Madhuri I appreciate that we are approaching this from very different perspectives probably due to growing up in very different cultural circumstances.

I don't think men are monsters for having strong sexual impulses. If he sees lots of beautiful naked women and it makes him sexually liberal because that's a lot easier in this context than trying to be sexually responsible and then he catches some horrible infection, gets a girl pregnant, and struggles with maintaining long term relationships throughout his lifetime, that's a problem. And that's a problem a very great deal of people have in our modern society.

I think you are looking at things backwards. We ALL have sexual impulses (men and women) and I would certainly not suggest men are monsters because of this. They become monsters (as do we) when they are unable to control those impulses appropriately. Do you aggressively seek to have sex with every man you find attractive? No? Me neither. Nor do most men. They are all capable of learning what behavior is appropriate and what isn't.

Then while I don't quite agree with your description of what is sexually liberal anyway, you once again seem to imply that all men's actions are the result of his inability to control his own impulses and that somehow we, as women, should rescue him from the burden of self responsibility.

All the lifestyle things you mention such as getting a girl pregnant, getting infections and failure to maintain long term relationships come down to both partners making informed, responsible choices.

So again, why should it be solely down to women to be responsible? Why should our responsible lifestyle choices be dictated by a minority of men who cannot control their urges?

You know, a few different guys have told me that seeing a beautiful female, especially one exposing more flesh, is like seeing delicious food, being really hungry, but not being able to eat it. It makes the guy think about sex more, be more inclined to get it where he can, and be more inclined to want to have sex with multiple persons (which can include cheating).

I don't want to repeat what I have said before but think of yourself Madhuri. Are you unable to control yourself when you see a good looking man? Would you throw yourself into bed with a man you passed on the street because he had an attractive body? Would all your wisdom and common sense go out of the window just because you see a sexy looking guy?
No?
So why make men any less responsible for their own actions than you make yourself?

I am bisexual. I see plenty of people of both sexes that I find attractive. I might even wonder and fantasize about what they might be like in bed. But I don't actually grab them off the street and try them out. I have a brain as well as hormones. I have a will and I exercise it.

So do we all, and maybe we should be encouraging weak willed men to be guided by their brain as much as they are by other parts of their anatomy rather than restricting our freedoms as women.

I'm sure its already hard enough to be a man and in control of lust.I don't see why I have to make it more difficult for them.

I think you need to stop pitying them and try to see them as equals. In many ways your views are more demeaning to men than they are to women. You seem to see the male of the species as brainless morons who are completely at the mercy of their hormones.

And for me personally, I really want to find a monogamous mate who is unwavered by the sight of other women.

Where I live you would find millions of such people.

But this is especially impossible to expect in a society where naked women prance about.

That is simply not true.
And while we are at it, this thread is about women's right to be topless (not naked). Going topless really has very little to do with sex. I sunbathe topless to get a tan. Period.
I sunbathe topless on beaches full of hundred of other women and men enjoying the sun. There is no hassle. It really isn't about sex.

Being a sexual being is nothing to be ashamed about.
However this argument contradicts your rape argument. In nature, a male expresses his sexual nature by raping the female he is stimulated by. Civilised man learns to control this, learning that it is bad.

Sorry, but I think your understanding of nature in general is flawed. Even in nature species evolve all kinds of mating rituals before a female consents to copulation. In some species the female will kill the male if he tries to engage in sexual activity she does not want to participate in.

Male and female humans are both genetically predisposed towards enjoying copulation. However they both have well developed brains too and live in a society which has evolved accepted standards of behavior.

Just because something is natural doesn't mean we should do it. For the same reason that men need to control their desires, I don't see why women should feel the right to do whatever they want without repercussion. If dressing to reduce the overall stimulation that men are overwhelmed with daily is our tiny sacrifice, maybe we should just do that.

Rather than repeat myself again, I will put it the other way round. In what ways should men restrict themselves so that women's desires are not inflamed?
Perhaps both sexes should wear burkas?

I would like to point out at this point that my opinion is largely based on how guys, past partners and friends and also onliners here, have expressed their particular experiences. If most men said that seeing breasts wasn't particularly stimulating, that it didn't really make them want to have sex, that it isn't difficult to deal with the constant stimulus without a proper form of release and that they did not feel inclined to objectify women due to our physical exposure, then I would not have any issue.

Well I have not been on this forum all that long but if it is true that the majority of men here are unable to control themselves if they see a a pretty woman, then I won't be staying here for long.

I am sure breasts can be stimulating to the male of the species. They are sometimes stimulating to me also. This is really not the issue.
The issue is how one deals with stimulation and whose responsibility it is to control ones impulses.

Nudity may not be something to be feared in Europe, but Europe is very sexually liberal. I've been to Italy many times, seen many topless women on the beaches and even on tv ads years ago. And yet it's practically expected by all men and women over there that men will cheat.

Yes Italy is special! I spend a lot of time there and agree with what you observe. But that is more about a double standard specific to Italy, a country with a long and strong Catholic tradition... I could go on, but we would wonder very far off topic.

Go a little further north though to Germany and you will find a sexually liberal country that doesn't have the same sort of double standard.

While you and many others may see this as perfectly fine, I can't help seeing the incredible social problems associated with it. I am not a fan of casual sex. I think it is very destructive to society and I've been personally damaged by it.

Is it really true that you have no social problems associated with sex? My suspicion is that you have just as many, or perhaps more but that they are just swept under the carpet and not talked about.

Is it really about equality though? What if we restricted men from being able to remove clothing in public? Would you be happy with that?

No.
See the point I made about Burkas earlier.
Why should either sex have to be restricted in such a way?
Why should one sex be more restricted than another?
Shouldn't we be trying to move forward rather than back?

I'm not attached to being able to show arms, legs, boobs etc. I just think when it comes to problems people face, it is so incredibly insignificant. But that's just me.

Of course there are more important or more urgent problems in the world such as poverty and environmental disaster, but each degree of civilization that has been fought for must be defended.

My ability to sunbathe topless, or to expose my bare arms, or to feel the wind on my skin is a small thing in the grand scheme of things, but it is not something I will ever willingly give up. Once you begin to give up small rights, bigger ones will be taken away.

And in this case there is simply no need. Men are nice. I like them. They are not hormone driven automatons with no self control who are out to rape me if they see my skin.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I may be mistaken here, but I doubt that I am. Breasts are sexual objects. Pectorals, are not. Breasts are the female equivalent of the male penis. That is why women are not allowed to be topless except for on designated topless beaches.
.

No, the breast are not the female equivalent of a penis: they are organs that have been used to feed mammalian infants since mammary glands developed. And females have pectorals (which I would hope those are never seen on either sex), just as men have nipples, an undarkened aureola area, and all the stuff except for sufficient estrogen to grow their own.

And that is the infringement upon freedom of speech that needs to end.

Actually, when you agree to the forums TOS, you waive your right of freedom of speech as you agreed to not say certain things. And besides, *** when referring to a donkey is only censored because the programming that auto-filters words cannot discern context or definition. It's not really that big of a deal.

The *** would still be secondary to most men as would the vagina. The breasts tend to be first.

Again it depends. Many black men tend to prefer not only butts, but big butts.

Bring your brain into the debate, rather than those silly tongues, and we might be able to have a decent debate.

Saying breasts are the equivalent of the penis, that to women the penis is a second close for sexual arousal, and insisting time and time again that it's practically universal in our culture that men prefer breasts over anything else is pretty much on par with the "bring your brain to the debate" comment. Some men prefer breasts, some men don't care about them. Some men like butts, some men like a seductive face. Some men like the overall body of a female, some men like the vagina, and some men aren't sexually fascinated by the nakedness alone of the female body.

Also....I have a lot of experience in the theatre where we had no choice but to strip naked backstage for a quick costume change in between pieces. We all went through the cultural paradigm shift where nudity equated to something taboo, and literally got over it in 5 minutes.

There is nothing like theatre to get one accustomed to getting dressed in five minutes, with others present, and really not giving a damn about it except should the need ever arise you can go from casual to formal, and back to casual with so much ease and efficiency you'll astound people.
I miss theatre. I really need to quit doing productions at school and go back to acting for respected and established troupes, where being memorized on opening night is mandatory, not optional.
But the point you made pretty much sums up the debate of nakedness being inherently sexual and arousing. I came I could usually tell new actors from experienced ones just by how they react to having to do costume changes in front of others, if they even do it in front of others and aren't pleading to the director for somewhere private to do it.
And while on the subject of what women find attractive, I guy I was in a play with had such bright, cheerful, and dreamy eyes. That was about seven years ago, but god his eyes and his smile could easily brighten a room and lighten moods. My mom and my sister even still occasionally go on just how lustrous his eyes are.

 

[MoonWater]

Ask any man what part of a woman he would rather look at as a sexual stimulant. He will state the breasts. The vagina is merely a hole for the penis.

Ask any woman what she thinks as a sexual stimulant on a man. She will state his personality, but the penis is a close second.

oh really? Cause if we're talking pure sexual stimulant what does it for me is the torso, particularly the side of the waist. Do you have a source for this as I imagine it's not as singularly focused as the media would have you believe.

Besides even if it is the case so what? if women are able to go around topless and a lot of men get turned on by that that is there issue. How is that a reason to make us cover up our nipples, which are the only part that legally needs to be covered and whose primary purpose is to nurse a child not get men excited. The only reason it does is because of society.

 

[McBell]

Ask any man what part of a woman he would rather look at as a sexual stimulant. He will state the breasts. The vagina is merely a hole for the penis.

Ask any woman what she thinks as a sexual stimulant on a man. She will state his personality, but the penis is a close second.

Ironic how you do not heed your own advice.

 

[waitasec]

The difference is that once the clothes are off, the man still mainly focuses on the breasts. The vagina is secondary.

but see...
the breasts are a mystery...once their out..the mystery is gone. sure it'll take a period of adjustment but then once one sees that, hey we're at the beach trying to get rid of tan lines....or we are just to freakin' hot like everyone else is (i'm not talking sexy hot mind you) get over "it". let my breasts be free to feel the wind...and not just my breasts, my entire upper torso!!!

 

[Draka]

I am repeatedly amazed by the assertion that female breasts are in any way comparable to penises. I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. Breasts are not reproductive organs. They are not genitalia. Just because they may swing or flop does not make them comparable. They are not even anywhere near the same area of the body. Just how in the world are they comparable? Is it the idea of possible sexual attractiveness? Because, hate to burst a bubble here, it's not like penises are really what women swoon over. It's not like we see a penis and our eyes bulge and we just can't rip our eyes away and we start drooling and our panties become all moist instantly. It doesn't work like that. I mean really, if you want to honestly compare female breasts to something physical about a man...I would honestly compare it the chest and abs on a man. Really. What? You don't think a woman looks at this and thinks "DAMN!"?


Now, honestly, if he can go without his shirt, why can't I?