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Got curious about something... (regards abortion and father`s duties)

McBell

McBell

Unbound
Koldo said:
"Exactly. You already have pills, implants, patches, cervical caps and condoms.
If an unplanned pregnancy occurs, that is a result of your personal choices. Therefore, you should be woman enough to accept the consequence."

The exact same argument can be used against abortion. See?
Click to expand...
No, I don't.
I do see that abortion is one of the available options to women.

Sounds to me that some people are merely whining about it being "unfair" that men have fewer options.

I cannot help but wonder what their basis for comparison is.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Koldo said:
"Exactly. You already have pills, implants, patches, cervical caps and condoms.
If an unplanned pregnancy occurs, that is a result of your personal choices. Therefore, you should be woman enough to accept the consequence."

The exact same argument can be used against abortion. See?



Where is there any mention of anything of the sort?
Click to expand...

That's not an argument against abortion at all. I think maybe you haven't understood it. Why shouldn't abortion be one of the possible choices a woman can make regarding her own reproductive health? Why should we arbitrarily eliminate ANY options for men or women? You have your options, we have ours. If either us fails to take advantage of those options, unexpected children will be the possible result. My argument is that you are responsible for your decisions and women are responsible for theirs. Just as she has no right to badger you into having a vasectomy, you have no right to badger her into having a baby, or not having one, after you've knocked her up.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Alceste said:
Do you think it's reasonable that a man should be able to coerce his partner through threats of abandonment to make a personal health decision that her conscience can't abide?

I don't. I think a man's right to choose ends when he decides not to take adequate steps to prevent an unplanned pregnancy.
Click to expand...

Abortion is much more than a personal health decision. And there would be no coercion if done right.

However, certainly there are health risks involved which make this whole scenario infeasible.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Alceste said:
That's not an argument against abortion at all. I think maybe you haven't understood it. Why shouldn't abortion be one of the possible choices a woman can make regarding her own reproductive health? Why should we arbitrarily eliminate ANY options for men or women? You have your options, we have ours. If either us fails to take advantage of those options, unexpected children will be the possible result. My argument is that you are responsible for your decisions and women are responsible for theirs. Just as she has no right to badger you into having a vasectomy, you have no right to badger her into having a baby, or not having one, after you've knocked her up.
Click to expand...

The crux of your argument is that unplanned pregnancies are a result of your personal choices and that you have to face the consequences, which means, most importantly to support the newborn. You are not facing the consequences if you terminate the pregnancy.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Koldo said:
The crux of your argument is that unplanned pregnancies are a result of your personal choices and that you have to face the consequences, which means, most importantly to support the newborn. You are not facing the consequences if you terminate the pregnancy.
Click to expand...
No, you are facing a whole different set of consequences.
A set the man does not share.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Mestemia said:
Because it is the womans body, not the mans.
Click to expand...

So what if it is the woman's body that bears the fetus?

( We are getting there, or so i hope.... )

P.S.: I request nobody other than Mestemia quotes/replies this specific post.
 
McBell

McBell

Unbound
Koldo said:
So what if it is the woman's body that bears the fetus?

( We are getting there, or so i hope.... )

P.S.: I request nobody other than Mestemia quotes/replies this specific post.
Click to expand...
It is the womans body, therefore it is the womans choice.

Please note that I said "woman" not "women".

Until such time as the man can carry the fetus to term and it is HIS body, then the woman is the one who gets to make the choice.


I fail to see what is so complicated about it.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Mestemia said:
It is the womans body, therefore it is the womans choice.

Please note that I said "woman" not "women".

Until such time as the man can carry the fetus to term and it is HIS body, then the woman is the one who gets to make the choice.


I fail to see what is so complicated about it.
Click to expand...

But the fetus is not the woman's body. Or to better put it, it is as much the woman's body as it is the man's body.
So what?
 
Willamena

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Koldo said:
But the fetus is not the woman's body. Or to better put it, it is as much the woman's body as it is the man's body.
So what?
Click to expand...
The fetus also is her body, in addition to other considerations regarding birthing the fetus.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
and what about when the woman's body aborts the baby via miscarriages?
no one seems to want to talk about that.

from what i understand, the cause of 2/3 of all miscarriages are beyond the mothers choice...

edit:
for clarification
 
Last edited:
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Koldo said:
The crux of your argument is that unplanned pregnancies are a result of your personal choices and that you have to face the consequences, which means, most importantly to support the newborn. You are not facing the consequences if you terminate the pregnancy.
Click to expand...

Sure you are. Do you think having an abortion is fun?
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Koldo said:
Funnier than going through an unwanted pregnancy?
Sure.
Click to expand...

How idiotic of you. Here's some news that may shock you: In countries where abortion is legal, safe and easily accessible, many women still choose to have babies resulting from unplanned pregnancies. I know, right? Amazing, but true.
 
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