Greater purposes

[Secret Chief]

Is there a greater purpose than personal happiness?

Yes.

What is that purpose?

Continuation of the species.

And how is it greater?

Personal happiness and continuation of the species are not mutually exclusive. The latter is greater because that is the ultimate purpose for all species. If there is a transcending explanation for why that is, I don't know it. Although personal happiness is important and we all seek it, if we all focussed all the time only on our selves then that would result ultimately in extinction - homo sapiens is a social group species - living only for personal happiness goes counter to that.

(By "purpose" I do not mean an individual purpose, therefore. The "purpose" is for the species as a whole.)

 

[Mock Turtle]

But there is no evidence for this:
"So as not to put one's own needs, desires, or preferences as being higher than others - just in seeing that others have such too and deserve as much of a life as we would want."
That is a belief without evidence. In effect it requires a form/sort of trust/certainty/dogmatic approach in that you have to believe in it for it to work. It only works, if you believe in it.
You have to believe in it. I accept you do that, I am just pointing out that there is no evidence or any of these other words as justified reason, logic, rationality, objectivity or what not.

No, I'm not arguing that it is any way correct, other than the evidence for vast disparities usually not being good for us - as societies. I basically have to assume - not being religious in any way - that people are born equal (as to what they are entitled to) even if this is not so in practice. And anything that tends to cause divisions or inequalities has to be suspect. Which is why I have never been drawn to any of the right-wing arguments - which tend to focus on innate individual rights - but where there is no such thing, and where this often conflicts with the rights of others - to exploit them or deny them their rights (which we allow to all apparently in some societies). Gun ownership being a typical one - their right to defend themselves but threatening others (and making life more dangerous) in the process.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

No, I'm not arguing that it is any way correct, other than the evidence for vast disparities usually not being good for us - as societies. I basically have to assume - not being religious in any way - that people are born equal (as to what they are entitled to) even if this is not so in practice. And anything that tends to cause divisions or inequalities has to be suspect. Which is why I have never been drawn to any of the right-wing arguments - which tend to focus on innate individual rights - but where there is no such thing, and where this often conflicts with the rights of others - to exploit them or deny them their rights (which we allow to all apparently in some societies). Gun ownership being a typical one - their right to defend themselves but threatening others (and making life more dangerous) in the process.

Yeah, as long as you get the limitation of what we are entitled to.
You explain yourself well and I agree with you.

 

[ChristineM]

I don't buy that there is or could be an "ultimate" purpose. But setting that aside...
A book only exists because it fulfilled the goals of the writer in some way. If the existence of our species does not serve the happiness of the individual member of our species, then the continuing the existence of our species is not "purpose." It is just inertia.

I do buy it which just goes to show, different people have different ideas.

Many writers create books by inertia, their goal to make money

There are far more thing's in life than personal happiness. I don't there is more than passing on your genes to the next generation

 

[ChristineM]

All knowledge is not based upon facts we can prove. I cannot prove what I know is the truth so it is not a fact, in the sense of definition #1 below. However, I can know according to definition #2 below.

knowledge;
1. facts, information, and skills acquired by a person through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject.
2. awareness or familiarity gained by experience of a fact or situation.
knowledge means - Google Search

That said, I would never claim what I believe is true and expect others to believe it is true because I cannot prove it is true and claims require proof. But I can still say "I know" what I believe is true because I have an inner certitude, an inner knowing.
Of course I realize I could be wrong but I never worry about that possibility, not for more than a few seconds.

I realize that people all have their own reasons for spending so much time on this forum, but if I was not absolutely certain that my beliefs are true, I would be off sunning myself on a beach somewhere or on a cruise, not here on this forum.

So as i said, you don't actually know but thats what you believe.

 

[ChristineM]

Animals also do the same.

Humans are animals

 

[MNoBody]

the thing that concerns me is people always forcing their purpose onto everyone around them.
Their way of seeing things, their slant......and mostly this is coercive, duress is a major element, shaming, denigrating, insinuating ineptitude or stupidity, etc,
this psychological bullying [one-upmanship] begins at birth and ends at death [apparently a universal human trait ...more like an obsession or sport].
which denies us as a species the opportunity to explore these ideas collaboratively.....pretty much a retarding influence.

 

[MNoBody]

 

[ppp]

I do buy it which just goes to show, different people have different ideas.

Purpose is assigned by thinking beings. In order for a purpose to be ultimate, every thinking being would have to agree to that designation. Otherwise, it is mere the purpose of a demographic.

Many writers create books by inertia, their goal to make money

Access to adequate resources is important to happiness in life.

There are far more thing's in life than personal happiness. I don't there is more than passing on your genes to the next generation

I am not sure what you are saying here. You don't personally feel there i more to life than passing on your genes?

 

[ChristineM]

Purpose is assigned by thinking beings. In order for a purpose to be ultimate, every thinking being would have to agree to that designation. Otherwise, it is mere the purpose of a demographic.

The inherent need to continue the species is within each (most) of us. No thinking required

Access to adequate resources is important to happiness in life.

Of courses, that does not mean all authors only write for personal happiness. Nor do they write to make others happy

I am not sure what you are saying here. You don't personally feel there i more to life than passing on your genes?

Sorry if i wasn't clear, i think dyslexia got the better of my paragraph. I will try again.

There are far more thing's in life than personal happiness. I don't believe there is more important than passing on your genes to the next generation

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

There are far more thing's in life than personal happiness. I don't believe there is more important than passing on your genes to the next generation

I believe differently.

 

[ChristineM]

I believe differently.

Jolly good.

 

[Trailblazer]

So as i said, you don't actually know but thats what you believe.

3 Ways to Know Something

There are 3 main ways.

1. Experiential (Empirical)

With experiential, you know something because you’ve “experienced” it – basically through your five senses (site, hearing, touch, smell, and taste.)

2. Cognitive (Rational)

With cognitive, you know something because you’ve thought your way through it, argued it, or rationalized it.

3. Constructed (Creational)

With constructed, you know something because you created it – and it may be subjective instead of objective and it may be based on convention or perception.

3 Ways to Know Something

I know my beliefs are true in the second way....

 

[viole]

Is there a greater purpose than personal happiness? What is that purpose? And how is it greater?

This is happiness in the sense of contentedness, or fulfillment.
"Are you happy in life?" is not asking if you are always merry. It is asking if your life is, on balance, a fulfilling one.

It depends. If I found happiness by torturing little kids, would my purpose still be great?

Ciao

- viole

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It depends. If I found happiness by torturing little kids, would my purpose still be great?

Ciao

- viole

If it is great to you, then yes, it is great to you.

 

[ChristineM]

3 Ways to Know Something

There are 3 main ways.

1. Experiential (Empirical)

With experiential, you know something because you’ve “experienced” it – basically through your five senses (site, hearing, touch, smell, and taste.)

2. Cognitive (Rational)

With cognitive, you know something because you’ve thought your way through it, argued it, or rationalized it.

3. Constructed (Creational)

With constructed, you know something because you created it – and it may be subjective instead of objective and it may be based on convention or perception.

3 Ways to Know Something

I know my beliefs are true in the second way....

So you have experimental data to show you are eternal?

So you can think your way through that is neither experienced in life, has no analogue to compare and is totally unknown.

So you can construct an eternity. Cool, but i rather think you mean imagine

 

[ppp]

The inherent need to continue the species is within each (most) of us. No thinking required

If its not in everyone, then its not ultimate. And if there isn't thought, then it isn't purpose. Purpose requires intent. A goal. When hydrogen bonds with oxygen, it is not done with purpose.

Of courses, that does not mean all authors only write for personal happiness.

Oh?

Sorry if i wasn't clear, i think dyslexia got the better of my paragraph. I will try again.

There are far more thing's in life than personal happiness. I don't believe there is more important than passing on your genes to the next generation

Thanks for clarifying. I don't share that priority. But if I did, then passing on my genes would be an essential component of having lived a happy life.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you have experimental data to show you are eternal?

So you can think your way through that is neither experienced in life, has no analogue to compare and is totally unknown.

So you can construct an eternity. Cool, but i rather think you mean imagine

Though in effect you only believe in greater purpose, because there is no evidence for it. So you imagine a greater purpose.

 

[ppp]

It depends. If I found happiness by torturing little kids, would my purpose still be great?

Ciao

- viole

Mother Theresa glorified suffering and withheld pain meds. She was canonized for her work.

 

[ChristineM]

Though in effect you only believe in greater purpose, because there is no evidence for it. So you imagine a greater purpose.

You are here, i am here, we all are here. Be are here because our parent's believed in that purpose. No imagination needed