Have the Rich Gone to War Against the Poor and Middle Class in America?

[Magic Man]

When I lived in West Virginia it was $100 cash. period.
AND you had to show up and work to earn it.
I loved it.
Got to get out and meet people, learned some skills I did not have before.
I wish that the other states would implement something along those lines.

Community service for welfare....

It sounds great, except that they should at least pay minimum wage. Plus, it would have to be on an individual basis. Many people getting benefits already work.

 

[dust1n]

Any time the price of materials or labor goes up, a company has to raise their prices. This is why raising the minimum wage does little to improve the workers quality of life.

Actually it has a reverse effect. Many times an employer will keep their payroll at the same level and just schedule less hours while expecting more work from each employee.

What I take issue to is why do people assume that a minimum wage job by design would pay you enough to live? This is an entry level position for teenagers and retired folks.

If you don't live at home with your parents or have your home paid for, minimum wage is not going to sustain you in most cases.

What we need to examine is why a person only qualifies for a minimum wage job? Perhaps they should have focused on acquiring a trade or an education before striking out on their own.

That's for replying to something you didn't read.

"Within three months of a wage hike, Aaronson finds that a 10 percent increase in the minimum wage resulted in a 0.4–0.7 percent increase in restaurant prices. Much of the increase occurred within the first month of the wage hike. In the fast food sector, prices rise 1.5 percent in response to a 10 percent increase."

An increase in minimum wage by 10 percent means prices only increased .4-.7 percent increase in restaurant prices. Again, you want your cake and the ability to consume it to. If you aren't willing to pay people better wages pubically or privately. Minimum Wage positions are being gobbled up by anyone trying to live Rick. There are not enough jobs for everyone. If there are not enough jobs, than anyone without one will attempt to work for minimum wage; not a living wage.

Again, why aren't they qualified for better jobs? Because education isn't free, in fact, the price raises year after year because schools are slowly losing their public funding.

 

[dust1n]

How do you suggest one goes about "learning about the poor of this country?"

They are called books Kathryn. If you want to learn about the poor in this country, I would suggest this;

 

[McBell]

Talk about exploitation. Let's do the math: how many hours a week did you have to work for your $100?

10 hours a month were required

 

[McBell]

It sounds great, except that they should at least pay minimum wage. Plus, it would have to be on an individual basis. Many people getting benefits already work.

Actually it worked out to about $10 hour.
$100 a month at a required 10 hours a month.

Of course, you could volunteer more hours if you wanted to.
I did cause it got me out of the house and I was able to gain full time employment because they liked the work I did through that program.

 

[Storm]

10 hours a month were required

Actually it worked out to about $10 hour.
$100 a month at a required 10 hours a month.

Of course, you could volunteer more hours if you wanted to.
I did cause it got me out of the house and I was able to gain full time employment because they liked the work I did through that program.

OK, that's not so bad. I've heard of initiatives to demand full 40 hour weeks for cash assistance, which doesn't even work out to minimum wage.

 

[Magic Man]

Actually it worked out to about $10 hour.
$100 a month at a required 10 hours a month.

Of course, you could volunteer more hours if you wanted to.
I did cause it got me out of the house and I was able to gain full time employment because they liked the work I did through that program.

That's fine. That sounds like a decent program. I'm not sure there should be a requirement on hours for every individual. Again, there are people who receive benefits but are working already. Anyway, if done right, a program like this can work well, I agree.

 

[Kathryn]

They are called books Kathryn. If you want to learn about the poor in this country, I would suggest this;

Books are great. I read at least four books a month - all non fiction.

But books are just someone's biased opinion for the most part.

I learn about the poor - not only by READING about them, but from real life experiences and interactions with the poor - on a regular basis.

To me the most effective learning includes not only reading from your own cherry picked sources, but real life experience as well.

 

[Magic Man]

But books are just someone's biased opinion for the most part.

Apparently, you've been reading the wrong non-fiction, then.

I learn about the poor - not only by READING about them, but from real life experiences and interactions with the poor - on a regular basis.

To me the most effective learning includes not only reading from your own cherry picked sources, but real life experience as well.

Then, maybe you should change your tactics, and read about them, since the whole learning about them through interactions with them isn't working out so well.

 

[Kathryn]

Maybe go meet some...

Thanks for skimming over my post. Maybe you missed the part where I said that I teach money management courses to the poor in my area on a monthly basis and have done so for years. Also, I teach life skills and behavior modification to abused women (mostly from poor homes) and have done so for years.

I would say that qualifies as "meeting some poor people." It also qualifies as giving real, useful help to those people.

 

[Kathryn]

Meeting, interacting with, and helping REAL, LIVE "poor people" is working out very well - not just for me, but for them. Not to brag, but my money management workshops are in high demand in my area - I have to turn some requests down, since I have a full time job and a family and my volunteer time is limited.

So don't talk to me about not understanding the poor or reading the wrong material. I'm not sitting on my *** reading about them - I'm actively doing something to help them.

 

[Magic Man]

Thanks for skimming over my post. Maybe you missed the part where I said that I teach money management courses to the poor in my area on a monthly basis and have done so for years. Also, I teach life skills and behavior modification to abused women (mostly from poor homes) and have done so for years.

I would say that qualifies as "meeting some poor people." It also qualifies as giving real, useful help to those people.

Actually, I didn't even skim your post. I only read the part I quoted. As I said above, maybe you should try reading about them, because your tactics in learning about them so far have proved ineffective.

 

[Magic Man]

So don't talk to me about not understanding the poor or reading the wrong material. I'm not sitting on my *** reading about them - I'm actively doing something to help them.

That's great and all, but you still have some gross misconceptions about them and poverty in this country. So, it seems a different learning technique is required.

 

[McBell]

To me the most effective learning includes not only reading from your own cherry picked sources, but real life experience as well.

and yet your posts in this thread demonstrate the effectiveness of your ability to cherry pick through your experiences to come up with such a misconstrued picture of the poor.

 

[Kathryn]

What I said - and ALL that I said - about the poor is that there is a larger percentage of dysfunctional and self destructive behavior below the poverty line than in the general population. I did not say that the poor are inherently lazy in general, or anything else along those lines.

The less effective one is in managing one's personal life - relationships, substances, etc. - the more potential for financial catastrophe.

 

[Magic Man]

What I said - and ALL that I said - about the poor is that there is a larger percentage of dysfunctional and self destructive behavior below the poverty line than in the general population. I did not say that the poor are inherently lazy in general, or anything else along those lines.

You're right. We all just misconstrued what you've written in dozens of threads over the past several months.

 

[Sunstone]

What I said - and ALL that I said - about the poor is that there is a larger percentage of dysfunctional and self destructive behavior below the poverty line than in the general population. I did not say that the poor are inherently lazy in general, or anything else along those lines.

The less effective one is in managing one's personal life - relationships, substances, etc. - the more potential for financial catastrophe.

I would tend to agree with you here. I think where we might disagree is (1) on the causes of that dysfunctional behavior; (2) on the existence of at least some poor who are structurally disenfrancized from wealth; (3) and on the various remedies for the situation.

 

[dust1n]

Books are great. I read at least four books a month - all non fiction.

But books are just someone's biased opinion for the most part.

I learn about the poor - not only by READING about them, but from real life experiences and interactions with the poor - on a regular basis.

To me the most effective learning includes not only reading from your own cherry picked sources, but real life experience as well.

Ah, so the most effective learning includes not only reading from you own cherry picked sources, but cherry picking from real life experience as well. I've got my education all wrong. Jeez, I wish I could afford to buy 4 books a month.

"When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist."

Hélder Pessoa Câmara

 

[dust1n]

What I said - and ALL that I said - about the poor is that there is a larger percentage of dysfunctional and self destructive behavior below the poverty line than in the general population. I did not say that the poor are inherently lazy in general, or anything else along those lines.

The larger percentage of dysfunctional and self destructive behavior is a result of poverty; not the other way around.

 

[justbehappy]

Not evil but like most libertarian ideology, selfish? absolutely. You got yours and you want to keep it while you put on the blinders and ignore the roads, police, military etc and all the millions of other things taxes and government offer. As for welfare if you say things like poor people are "lazy" then you have little understanding of why we have social programs. It may not be the governments job if the people don't want it but thankfully we live in a pretty advanced society where at least in the case of altruism for your fellow man the noble outrank the greed-heads.

Refer to the thing you quoted for the answer to this... I will say again that Libertarian philosophy is not a selfish one but you will again chose to not believe me and if that's what you wish to do, you go right ahead