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Hays, Kansas bans Satanist attire.

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Kids in school are not afforded that same 'rights' as adults, for obvious reasons. And the determing factor here is "offensive", meaning provocative and/or distracting. Not religious. Personally, I think they should ban all "messaging" because it's completely unnecessary and the easiest way of eliminating a lot of this nonsense.

And guess who determines what constitutes as "offensive": in this case, Christians.

What is offensive about the image below, aside from what a Christian may think?

upload_2022-8-22_8-16-33.png


What if I, as a staff member, were to be outright wearing my pentacle (a non-Satanic pentacle) necklace in this school? If it is deemed Satanic, as it might, what would be the consequence as opposed to another staff member wearing a cross?

And what constitutes as "messaging"? Ought students and staff adhere to strict regulations without creativity? However are they to learn to be individuals that way?
 

PureX

Veteran Member
And guess who determines what constitutes as "offensive": in this case, Christians.

What is offensive about the image below, aside from what a Christian may think?

View attachment 65665

What if I, as a staff member, were to be outright wearing my pentacle (a non-Satanic pentacle) necklace in this school? If it is deemed Satanic, as it might, what would be the consequence as opposed to another staff member wearing a cross?

And what constitutes as "messaging"? Ought students and staff adhere to strict regulations without creativity? However are they to learn to be individuals that way?
The whole point is to avoid this kind of nonsensical, distracting argument. Not to help little Jimmy be 'an original'.

It the adults are going to fight about it then we should just assign uniforms to the kids as many other countries do and be done with it.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
Nothing to do with Kansas, but now in Boston Satanists are demanding that their flag has equal right to fly with Christian flag at State House. Yet another legal lawsuit after Christians sued and won to have their flag flown.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
The whole point is to avoid this kind of nonsensical, distracting argument. Not to help little Jimmy be 'an original'.

It the adults are going to fight about it then we should just assign uniforms to the kids as many other countries do and be done with it.

Of course, adults could just be adults and not fight about it...actually, your line of reasoning kind of hits at the point, that freedom is for all or is it for none in a society seeking equal treatment for citizens.

It's pretty simple: religious freedom is religious freedom. If you can't handle diversity, then no religion should have it lest it become established.
 

Guitar's Cry

Disciple of Pan
Nothing to do with Kansas, but now in Boston Satanists are demanding that their flag has equal right to fly with Christian flag at State House. Yet another legal lawsuit after Christians sued and won to have their flag flown.

Hopefully the Satanic flag will fly beside it.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Of course, adults could just be adults and not fight about it...actually, your line of reasoning kind of hits at the point, that freedom is for all or is it for none in a society seeking equal treatment for citizens.

It's pretty simple: religious freedom is religious freedom. If you can't handle diversity, then no religion should have it lest it become established.
Kids are't fully 'people' yet. And school is school, not church, not a rock concert, not a gang hangout, and not a political forum. And if the adults are too stupid to understand that, then we should just put the kids in uniforms.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
She did not like the fact that Christian students could wear clothing proclaiming their faith but people of other faiths, hers specifically, could not do so.
They ought to be allowed to wear their anti christian symbols (if Christians may wear pro Christian ones), but the arguments they are using are junk. The whole problem of Satanism is that Christians have taken it seriously, unlike the Spaghetti Monster religion. At least that one hasn't been taken seriously. Its a protest. These people are just trying to make political points by pretending to be religious, and putting their daughter into it is not very nice. Its simple that they want to oppose Christianity and should be allowed to do so if its being promoted in the school, but Satan is a Christian thing. Its a Christian item. They're simply opposing Christianity, not establishing a religion.

Not condoning it, but I can’t say that I blame the Satanists. Christians (not all but some sects in particular) have mocked, insulted and otherwise refused to engage in good faith dialogue with Satanists in general.
If 'Satanism' was not merely an attempt to mock Christianity or to shock Christians then I'd potentially agree, but its merely that. But I agree they ought to be allowed anti christian symbols on their clothes if the Christians are allowed to wear pro Christian symbols. Fair is fair in a publicly funded school in the USA where the government shouldn't be establishing any religion.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
They ought to be allowed to wear their anti christian symbols (if Christians may wear pro Christian ones), but the arguments they are using are junk. The whole problem of Satanism is that Christians have taken it seriously, unlike the Spaghetti Monster religion. At least that one hasn't been taken seriously. Its a protest. These people are just trying to make political points by pretending to be religious, and putting their daughter into it is not very nice. Its simple that they want to oppose Christianity and should be allowed to do so if its being promoted in the school, but Satan is a Christian thing. Its a Christian item. They're simply opposing Christianity, not establishing a religion.

Perhaps it started that way. But for some it does appear to be a legitimate religions. Does one have to believe in a real God to have a religion? I don't think that one needs to. And unfortunately due to our current legal structure there must be a "victim" to have a lawsuit. One cannot take an action on behalf of those that are not Christians. That is something that must be done on the legislative arena. To directly oppose such an immoral action by the school board one must have a player in the game, or in other words, a specific student.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
why do you think quoting the bible is sin?

I did not say that. Go back and reread my post.

If Satan is just symbol or metaphor then there is no subject or worship and thus this confirms Satanism isn't religion.
That is only your definition of religion. By that definition Zen Buddhism, and probably many other belief systems, are not "religions". Why do you think that belief in a mythical being is a must to have a religion?
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Perhaps it started that way. But for some it does appear to be a legitimate religions. Does one have to believe in a real God to have a religion? I don't think that one needs to. And unfortunately due to our current legal structure there must be a "victim" to have a lawsuit. One cannot take an action on behalf of those that are not Christians. That is something that must be done on the legislative arena. To directly oppose such an immoral action by the school board one must have a player in the game, or in other words, a specific student.
Maybe they don't need to pretend to have an oppressed religion if they can simply petition for relief from the government establishing religion.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Nothing to do with Kansas, but now in Boston Satanists are demanding that their flag has equal right to fly with Christian flag at State House. Yet another legal lawsuit after Christians sued and won to have their flag flown.

Why is a Christian flag flying in Boston? More lawsuits to come. Of course they will vote to take the flag down rather than extending freedom to other religions.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
why do you think quoting the bible is sin?

He didn't say it was. He said quote mining is a sin, by which I presume he means that cherry picking scriptures to present a false impression of what the ENTIRE Bible says is dishonest.

If Satan is just symbol or metaphor then there is no subject or worship and thus this confirms Satanism isn't religion.

It's not a religion to me, either, since it has no gods or supernaturalism. I realize that some people consider atheistic worldviews like atheistic Buddhism religions, but I classify them separately. This atheistic form of Satanism functions more as an advocate for secularism, or keeping religion out of government, and makes a nice adjunct to the organizations litigating for secularism such as the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

Telling someone to jump off the roof is good?

He asked if someone had read the Bible, by which I presume he meant the whole Bible. Satan is the more sympathetic character, not Yahweh. Of course, Satan is depicted as evil because he was rebellious, and was then tarred with the role of sadist. But if one looks at the whole Bible, its deity is the sadist, who drowned nearly the whole world in a fit of pique, and who tormented Job and killed his children on a lark.

Remove the sadism, and Satan is a good symbol for enlightenment values - reason over faith, the empowerment of man, education over indoctrination, citizen over subject, etc.. You saw the tenets of Satanism posted by @Subduction Zone . They could come out of the Affirmations of Humanism.

Twain pithily quipped, "Heaven for the weather, hell for the company." And Billy Joel captures that same spirit here. He's rejecting heaven and Yahweh just like Satan:

And they say there's a heaven for those who will wait
Some say it's better, but I say it ain't
I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints
The sinners are much more fun​

It's obvious that trolling continues don't you think so?

You can call it trolling, but its secularists forcefully pushing back at the incursions of the church into their lives in a secular state. I realize that many if not most Christians see the church as good and its critics evil, but those critics see it the other way around. They see themselves as holding the moral high ground and the church as behaving immorally - something new for the church. One of their favorite tactics is highlighting the Christian sense of entitlement and exceptionalism by using their own rules against them and watching them take down their religious displays rather than allow religious freedom and diversity. The Christians put up a cross and consider it wholesome and holy, the Satanists erect the image of Baphomet, and the Christians object and take their displays down rather that permit any alternative opinion to be expressed if they can prevent it.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Nothing to do with Kansas, but now in Boston Satanists are demanding that their flag has equal right to fly with Christian flag at State House. Yet another legal lawsuit after Christians sued and won to have their flag flown.

I admire them because they profess their religion aboveboard.
 
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Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
If Satan is just symbol or metaphor then there is no subject or worship and thus this confirms Satanism isn't religion.
Not all religions have worship (Buddhism often doesn't), and some Satanists do believe in a literal Satan and worship him.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The whole point is to avoid this kind of nonsensical, distracting argument. Not to help little Jimmy be 'an original'.

It the adults are going to fight about it then we should just assign uniforms to the kids as many other countries do and be done with it.
Guess what? This entire country was established and founded upon fighting for denied rights and freedoms.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Kids are't fully 'people' yet. And school is school, not church, not a rock concert, not a gang hangout, and not a political forum. And if the adults are too stupid to understand that, then we should just put the kids in uniforms.
Kids are people. They aren't fully developed yet (neither is a sizeable chunk of adults), but they are indeed fully fledged people.
It's called learning to get along with others. It's called learning to share society.
Such a garbage ruling only enforces that Christians are entitled to these sort of special privileges that allow denying Constitutional rights of another. That must never be accepted or tolerated.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I am reminded of high school, and how myself and those I hung out with would often rant about how we don't really have any rights, because we clearly saw ours denied in many ways, but rather a list of what we're allowed to have and do.
And it's still basically the same thing going on in adulthood. You have these things called rights on paper, supposedly you have them and they are inalienable but they rarely actually apply and you almost never actually possess them because most the time they are kicked to the side for a list of rules of what you can and can't do. Parents, schools, bosses, we have and may practice our "rights" about as often as the appearance of a blue moon.
 
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