Her name was Amber Nicole Thurman ...

[Heyo]

The doctors were either not familiar with Georgia law:

If you’re past around 6 weeks pregnant, you may need to travel out of Georgia to get an abortion unless you qualify for an exception. Exceptions are very limited and include:

To save the pregnant person's life
To preserve the pregnant person's physical health
If the fetus is not expected to survive the pregnancy
If the pregnancy is a result of rape and/or incest.
Where Can I Get an Abortion? | U.S. Abortion Clinic Locator

Or there were other reasons the needed medical procedure was delayed.
Definitely tragic but can't be blame on the laws against abortion.

Do you think doctors don't act out of fear? Do you think they are calling the shots? Hospitals have lawyers, and they tell the doctors which treatment - or non-treatment - is less risky to get the clinic sued.
That's why I hope the clinic will get sued, and it will be found that the lawyers - or the laws - were wrong.

 

[Soandso]

By sacrifice I meant abstinence from sex.

What a garbage comment. You honestly expect abstinence to be a solution for entire populations of people? When has that ever worked in history? Not even China's one child policy kept people from having kids. Sex is just part of the human experience. It is what it is

 

[Nakosis]

From the ProPublica article ...

Though Republican lawmakers who voted for state bans on abortion say the laws have exceptions to protect the “life of the mother,” medical experts cautioned that the language is not rooted in science and ignores the fast-moving realities of medicine.​

​

The most restrictive state laws, experts predicted, would pit doctors’ fears of prosecution against their patients’ health needs, requiring providers to make sure their patient was inarguably on the brink of death or facing “irreversible” harm when they intervened with procedures like a D&C.​

​

“They would feel the need to wait for a higher blood pressure, wait for a higher fever — really got to justify this one — bleed a little bit more,” Dr. Melissa Kottke, an OB-GYN at Emory, warned lawmakers in 2019 during one of the hearings over Georgia’s ban.​

​

Doctors and a nurse involved in Thurman’s care declined to explain their thinking and did not respond to questions from ProPublica. Communications staff from the hospital did not respond to multiple requests for comment. Georgia’s Department of Public Health, which oversees the state maternal mortality review committee, said it cannot comment on ProPublica’s reporting because the committee’s cases are confidential and protected by federal law.​

You can't blame the laws. Thanks for sharing.

More from ProPublica ...

... since abortion was banned or restricted in 22 states over the past two years, women in serious danger have been turned away from emergency rooms and told that they needed to be in more peril before doctors could help. Some have been forced to continue high-risk pregnancies that threatened their lives. Those whose pregnancies weren’t even viable have been told they could return when they were “crashing.”​

​

Such stories have been at the center of the upcoming presidential election, during which the right to abortion is on the ballot in 10 states.​

​

But Republican legislators have rejected small efforts to expand and clarify health exceptions — even in Georgia, which has one of the nation’s highest rates of maternal mortality and where Black women are three times more likely to die from pregnancy-related complications than white women.​

​

When its law went into effect in July 2022, Gov. Brian Kemp said he was “overjoyed” and believed the state had found an approach that would keep women “safe, healthy and informed.”​

​

After advocates tried to block the ban in court, arguing the law put women in danger, attorneys for the state of Georgia accused them of “hyperbolic fear mongering.”​

​

Two weeks later, Thurman was dead.​

In my opinion, apologists who opine that her death was "definitely tragic but can't be blame on the laws against abortion" are a significant part of the problem.

Sure, you are relying on a publication with limited information.

However, feel free to provide the law with would have prevented the necessary procedure.

The media narrative is as you describe so, no need to think for yourself.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you think doctors don't act out of fear? Do you think they are calling the shots? Hospitals have lawyers, and they tell the doctors which treatment - or non-treatment - is less risky to get the clinic sued.
That's why I hope the clinic will get sued, and it will be found that the lawyers - or the laws - were wrong.

If they clinic is at fault, they should get screwed but they won't be able to use the law as their defense. Unfortunately the media gaslighting overshadows everything so any negligence by the doctors or staff might get overlook so we may never get to the root cause which could prevent other such tragedies. Hopefully the investigation committee will do more they rely on one publication with limited knowledge.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree, and I myself am not religious. I don't hold my position on abortion based on religion.

To me the issue is no different from murder or stealing; murder and stealing are considered wrong by religion, but that's not why I hold my positions on murder and stealing.

Stances on abortion are very much driven by religion,
yours being an exception to what's most common.
Christian fundamentalism is the main driver, & so
their imposition of their interpretation of the Bible
drives opposition to abortion.

 

[Pogo]

Sure, you are relying on a publication with limited information.

However, feel free to provide the law with would have prevented the necessary procedure.

The media narrative is as you describe so, no need to think for yourself.

It is not the law, it is the uncertainty of how it would be implemented. We have seen numerous cases where people have interpreted the laws in new and disturbing ways. We had 50 years of consistent practice that allowed doctors to know where they stood, now we suddenly have a whole new set of laws whose violation puts doctors into an unknown position as to whether there best judgement is even legal.
Does removing dead fetal tissue count as an abortion, if so it is not legal. might it impact the woman's health and get worse? Not sufficient to perform the operation since legal says gray area no go, wait till it is an emergency and exception clear.
It is not just this case, it is the nightmare of doctors all over the country dealing with the unclear laws resulting from overturning Roe v Wade.

Return to the standards of Roe will prevent this and leave only genuine malpractice situations.

 

[Revoltingest]

Every law imposes a belief system on someone else’s belief system. Unless you believe that we shouldn’t have laws.

But many laws are agreed upon by people of
greatly varying cultures, faiths, & non-faiths,
eg, prohibiting murder & robbery.
Abortion is different. It's over-whelmingly
Christian fundies imposing a their religion
upon others.

 

[Revoltingest]

By sacrifice I meant abstinence from sex.

Yeah....people are going to do that.

 

[Nakosis]

No the blame is on the confusion generated by these laws and how they are or could be enforced causing doctors not to take actions in fear of the repercussions. Do doctors now need training in the day to day interpretation of the latest missive from the government.

That's not know yet. It took me less than 5 minutes to look up the law. A doctor shouldn't wait until the last minute to understand the laws which apply to the practice nor should it take them longer than 5 minutes to look it up if they're confused. A doctor who doesn't bother to know the laws regarding their practice probably shouldn't be a doctor.

 

[Father Heathen]

There's much worse.
In my country a woman in her twenties said on a TV talk show that some years earlier she had a traumatic experience. She had to have an abortion and went to a counselling center. There a physician visited her, and seeing that she was willing to have an abortion, he yelled at her: "you young people have to stop it to have sex without contraceptives", he kinda belittled her and insulted her.
Then she had to undergo the psychological visit...and finally the day of abortion, she saw that the nurses were giggling at her behind her back.
Something like: "she had fun having unprotected sex, the little tr.." and other insulting comments.

**** that physician and those nurses, very unprofessional, but what's your point?

 

[Pogo]

If they clinic is at fault, they should get screwed but they won't be able to use the law as their defense. Unfortunately the media gaslighting overshadows everything so any negligence by the doctors or staff might get overlook so we may never get to the root cause which could prevent other such tragedies. Hopefully the investigation committee will do more they rely on one publication with limited knowledge.

The clinic is not at fault, the law has created a situation that the doctors knowledge and acknowledged best practices is not sufficient to protect them from second guessing by the state.
This is not a singular occurrence, only the first one to make the news where the woman actually died.

 

[Nakosis]

It is not the law, it is the uncertainty of how it would be implemented. We have seen numerous cases where people have interpreted the laws in new and disturbing ways. We had 50 years of consistent practice that allowed doctors to know where they stood, now we suddenly have a whole new set of laws whose violation puts doctors into an unknown position as to whether there best judgement is even legal.
Does removing dead fetal tissue count as an abortion, if so it is not legal. might it impact the woman's health and get worse? Not sufficient to perform the operation since legal says gray area no go, wait till it is an emergency and exception clear.
It is not just this case, it is the nightmare of doctors all over the country dealing with the unclear laws resulting from overturning Roe v Wade.

Return to the standards of Roe will prevent this and leave only genuine malpractice situations.

Well, as I said. Shame on the doctors. However if you prefer to blame the law, perhaps the doctors will get to skate on this.

 

[Nakosis]

The clinic is not at fault, the law has created a situation that the doctors knowledge and acknowledged best practices is not sufficient to protect them from second guessing by the state.
This is not a singular occurrence, only the first one to make the news where the woman actually died.

Well, hopefully they will figure out they can't blame the law and tget to the real cause. Otherwise, like you said, this will probably happen again.

 

[Pogo]

That's not know yet. It took me less than 5 minutes to look up the law. A doctor shouldn't wait until the last minute to understand the laws which apply to the practice nor should it take them longer than 5 minutes to look it up if they're confused. A doctor who doesn't bother to know the laws regarding their practice probably shouldn't be a doctor.

So the doctors are supposed to be the experts on the law now and get legal opinion before acting. That is part of the problem, the hospital legal departments are saying no, our insurance does not cover this.

I don't know where you have been for the last two years, but this is happening all over the place. It was expected and these stories are just the demonstration that warnings about these laws were correct.

 

[Estro Felino]

**** that physician and those nurses, very unprofessional, but what's your point?

My point is that since it's a nightmare going through the abortion process in Italy, many women use dozens of contraceptives.

 

[Pogo]

So the doctors are supposed to be the experts on the law now and get legal opinion before acting. That is part of the problem, the hospital legal departments are saying no, our insurance does not cover this.

I don't know where you have been for the last two years, but this is happening all over the place. It was expected and these stories are just the demonstration that warnings about these laws were correct.

Some more for you @Nakosis;

New abortion laws changed their lives. 8 very personal stories​

JUNE 23, 20235:00 AM ET

The Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade a year ago hit like an earthquake. In many states, new restrictions took effect immediately, and more states have banned abortion in the year since.

As new bans have taken effect, doctors and hospitals and lawyers have all struggled to adjust. But the biggest effect has been on individual Americans and their families.

Last fall, NPR asked people to tell us how abortion laws in their states had affected their own lives. The response was striking — more than 350 people responded, and we featured several of their stories in a series entitled Days & Weeks.

 

[crossfire]

Well, as I said. Shame on the doctors. However if you prefer to blame the law, perhaps the doctors will get to skate on this.

Lawmakers are not healthcare professionals. Heck, it wasn't that long ago when one argued that an ectopic pregnancy could be "reimplanted" for crimey's sake. (There is no medical procedure for such a thing.) The language of the laws can be quite vague from a medical standpoint. If they are brought to trail, will the jury understand the medical situation well enough to come to a fair conclusion? From the article:

In interviews with more than three dozen OB-GYNs in states that outlawed abortion, ProPublica learned how difficult it is to interpret the vague and conflicting language in bans’ medical exceptions — especially, the doctors said, when their judgment could be called into question under the threat of prison time.


Take the language in Georgia’s supposed lifesaving exceptions.


It prohibits doctors from using any instrument “with the purpose of terminating a pregnancy.” While removing fetal tissue is not terminating a pregnancy, medically speaking, the law only specifies it’s not considered an abortion to remove “a dead unborn child” that resulted from a “spontaneous abortion” defined as “naturally occurring” from a miscarriage or a stillbirth.


Thurman had told doctors her miscarriage was not spontaneous — it was the result of taking pills to terminate her pregnancy.


There is also an exception, included in most bans, to allow abortions “necessary in order to prevent the death of the pregnant woman or the substantial and irreversible physical impairment of a major bodily function.” There is no standard protocol for how providers should interpret such language, doctors said. How can they be sure a jury with no medical experience would agree that intervening was “necessary”?​

 

[PureX]

Ninth week...so I suppose she had an abortion because it was an unwanted pregnancy?
How did she get pregnant?
Was she on the pill? Did she use protection?

Does ANY of this matter?

The doctors were cowards.
The politicians are worse than cowards.
A mother is dead now because they were all too stupid and cowardly to save her life.

 

[Estro Felino]

Does ANY of this matter?

The doctors were cowards.
The politicians are worse than cowards.
A mother is dead now because they were all too stupid and cowardly to save her life.

No...Christian fundamentalism shaping the law of a country.

 

[Twilight Hue]

From ProPublica:

In her final hours, Amber Nicole Thurman suffered from a grave infection that her suburban Atlanta hospital was well-equipped to treat.​

​

She’d taken abortion pills and encountered a rare complication; she had not expelled all of the fetal tissue from her body. She showed up at Piedmont Henry Hospital in need of a routine procedure to clear it from her uterus, called a dilation and curettage, or D&C.​

​

But just that summer, her state had made performing the procedure a felony, with few exceptions. Any doctor who violated the new Georgia law could be prosecuted and face up to a decade in prison.​

​

Thurman waited in pain in a hospital bed, worried about what would happen to her 6-year-old son, as doctors monitored her infection spreading, her blood pressure sinking and her organs beginning to fail.​

​

It took 20 hours for doctors to finally operate. By then, it was too late.​

Elections have consequences ...

Which makes me think there is always more to the story than people let on.

But that said I do think this is tragic.