"Her penis" - not at all Orwellian - argh

[The Kilted Heathen]

For example, a girl who expresses a lot of masculine traits, i.e. a "tomboy" is in NO WAY expressing her sexual identity when she climbs a tree.

Are you suggesting that climbing a tree is a gender-roled action?

 

[Revoltingest]

How do you know the problem is insignificant?

Rare occurrence.
No one harmed.

In general, how do you prove that a thing is not happening?

Big question.
Beyond the scope of this thread.

It seems to me that the truth is you're not aware of it, and so somehow in your mind that means it must not be happening?

Your claim.
Evidence lacking.
Sound judgement would say that trans women
disrupting TERF / lesbian meetings would be
uncommon & of no real consequence.

 

[icehorse]

No you don’t. If you did you’d be able to face disagreement without questioning whether a poster is "arguing in good faith" while mawkishly thanking those who agree for their "thoughtful posts." That's the zero sum game yer playing. With you at the centre. Feigning civility til the levee breaks.

Repeating the same five things on (at least) three internet discussion forums over the past ten years doesn’t make them true. Idealizing the notion of universal morality (parroting Sam Harris) only to panic over pronouns (parroting Jordan Peterson) stands in the way of the alternative option of forming your own opinion. Like the critical thinker you keep telling everyone you are (while parroting former patrons).

One minute finds you insisting we all share the same values and the next referring to fellow posters as “opponents” and “detractors" in yet another manufactroversy where you can play both the victim and the hero. You used to call yourself an activist. That was about as accurate as all the links you post that never hold the facts you claim they do. Now you paint activists as a “woke cohort” here to destroy freedom of speech and usher in a dystopian future.

(This is where you say "your mind reading skills aren't very good” with the embarrassingly frequent use of jazz hands.)

You’re still chasing phantoms, icehorse. One thread fails you simply start another. Next thing you know it’s fifty pages of crushed asphalt on the same road to nowhere. Patrons offer insight but you keep the blinders on. Arriving at the conclusion prematurely isn’t the problem. Refusing to budge after you realize the error made in haste is the problem. Forever insisting the big scary thing that never happens merely hasn’t happened “yet.”

The consistency with which you’ve been labelled a bigot is no great mystery. It’s a reflection of the consistency of your intolerance.

If yer gonna nail one foot to the floor...don’t get upset when people run circles around you.

Hey LJ, how ya been? I miss those days on the old Sam Harris forum.

As for your flotilla of accusations, they're mostly (all?), inaccurate. But I'd be happy to review case by case instances, sigh.

I will say that I'm not sure how far we'll get if you claim all sorts of things "I used to do", unless you have access to the old forum? So if you have a bone to pick, I think we're better off sticking to RF, fair enough?

cheers

 

[icehorse]

Are you suggesting that climbing a tree is a gender-roled action?

Oh ffs. Feel free to insert a different behavior, would it really change the point?

 

[icehorse]

Your claim.
Evidence lacking.
Sound judgement would say that trans women
disrupting TERF / lesbian meetings would be
uncommon & of no real consequence.

Yup, my claim, but easily searchable.

And by your own repeated admissions on this forum, giving you citations is a colossal waste of time because you've told us all you won't read them.

As for "sound judgment" - the world has gotten really, really weird, it would appear that you're not keeping up

 

[Revoltingest]

Yup, my claim, but easily searchable.

Except for you.

And by your own repeated admissions on this forum, giving you citations is a colossal waste of time because you've told us all you won't read them.

Convenient excuse.

As for "sound judgment" - the world has gotten really, really weird, it would appear that you're not keeping up

I'll wager that your hostility towards trans women
means that your real world experience is far more
limited. Your arguments hinge on the hypothetical
& the rare. They smell of invention.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Oh ffs. Feel free to insert a different behavior, would it really change the point?

FFS indeed.

Yes, it really would change things, because this shows just how little you grasp the actual issues here. You've shown that to you, a trans experience is just a MAN wearing a dress and high heels, and nothing more.

 

[icehorse]

FFS indeed.

Yes, it really would change things, because this shows just how little you grasp the actual issues here. You've shown that to you, a trans experience is just a MAN wearing a dress and high heels, and nothing more.

how would a different activity change the point?

As for the dress comment, am I talking to an adult here? Because these are complex conversations and I really shouldn't gave to reestablish the conversational context for you very time I respond to you.

If you need that hand holding, i'll bow out, have a fine day.

 

[icehorse]

Convenient excuse.

Have you read any of the links I've provided (several times now), in this thread?

I'll wager that your hostility towards trans women
means that your real world experience is far more
limited. Your arguments hinge on the hypothetical
& the rare. They smell of invention.

How insightful of you!! Wow! You've sure got a handle on things, yup, I'm not a lesbian

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Fantastic non-answer.

As for the dress comment, am I talking to an adult here? Because these are complex conversations

No, they're really not. They really are not. I would be willing to bet that you've passed transpeople on your daily dozens of times, and seen them as their preferred gender expression. To put it simply for you, you've very likely seen transwomen as women, and transmen as men. Because social interaction isn't a genital inspection like you're treating this issue.

And it's really as simple as that. Respecting people for who they are, not what you think they are or should be.

 

[icehorse]

Fantastic non-answer.

No, they're really not. They really are not. I would be willing to bet that you've passed transpeople on your daily dozens of times, and seen them as their preferred gender expression. To put it simply for you, you've very likely seen transwomen as women, and transmen as men. Because social interaction isn't a genital inspection like you're treating this issue.

And it's really as simple as that. Respecting people for who they are, not what you think they are or should be.

And you win the super-duper strawman of the day award!!

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

That is absolutely not what a strawman is, horse.

 

[Revoltingest]

Have you read any of the links I've provided (several times now), in this thread?

I've perused some.
Ever read mine?

 

[Brian2]

This is interesting. What am I to make of it?

It's apparent that this particular person is firmly on one side of the question. Fair enough. What I took from it, which she may not have intended, is that current medical opinion is divided on the matter. Again fair enough. Medical history is littered with bad treatments that were firmly believed to be good and of course the reverse. In the end, they get settled, and the "best" answer is found.

So what is my conclusion? That the ultimate answers must come from doctors, not politicians, religious leaders, or people like me, sitting at my keyboard.

One of the things I got from this Doctor is that the scare mongering about mass suicides without gender affirming treatment is not true in the experience of the countries who are winding it back.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wha? Elderly women are being forced to have "intact males" (Another bizarre phrase from you) perform their medical exams? You mean, like, male doctors? Every doctor I've ever had has been a male.

Its a way of deliberate misgendering.

 

[Revoltingest]

Its a way of deliberate misgendering.

The biggest problem in USA today isn't
the police state, high taxes, or funding
genocide in Gaza.
It's the ubiquitous horror of a bearded
doctor wearing dress & high heels while
taking a woman's blood pressure against
her will in a lavatory stall.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Hey LJ, how ya been? I miss those days on the old Sam Harris forum.

As for your flotilla of accusations, they're mostly (all?), inaccurate. But I'd be happy to review case by case instances, sigh.

I will say that I'm not sure how far we'll get if you claim all sorts of things "I used to do", unless you have access to the old forum? So if you have a bone to pick, I think we're better off sticking to RF, fair enough?

cheers

Except she described what you do.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And you win the super-duper strawman of the day award!!

Learn what that term means.

 

[icehorse]

Fantastic non-answer.

No, they're really not. They really are not. I would be willing to bet that you've passed transpeople on your daily dozens of times, and seen them as their preferred gender expression. To put it simply for you, you've very likely seen transwomen as women, and transmen as men. Because social interaction isn't a genital inspection like you're treating this issue.

And it's really as simple as that. Respecting people for who they are, not what you think they are or should be.

You are arguing against claims I have not made. It's as simple as that.

 

[icehorse]

Except she described what you do.

And @LadyJane -

Ha, you know I wouldn't be surprised if you were the same person using two avatars. You're probably two people though, so you should get to know each other - you can share your woke fantasies together You can talk about intersectionality, and standpoint theory, and how oppressed you are, and how bad the west is - i'm sure you'll have a grand old time

But as for your criticisms of me, you're all hat and no cattle.