"High School Students Crowned America's First Lesbian Homecoming Couple"

[Walkntune]

So the students didn't give a damn, why should you?

If you were really uninterested you wouldn't have had to tell us so. Instead you seem quite interested in telling us how wrong everyone else is! How shocking! The couple in question acknowledged that they just wanted to run as a couple, and probably wouldn't have cared if it were two queens, but the school and/or student body did it the way they did it.

Why does this require outrage and anger?

How can you assume the students who were sexually discriminated against didn't care?

 

[Drolefille]

How can you assume the students who were sexually discriminated against didn't care?

Because no one was discriminated against. Strawman.

 

[Walkntune]

Because no one was discriminated against. Strawman.

Sorry but if you were a guy wanting the male role out of best male and female in the school(which prom king and queen represent) then you would have been discriminated against. Why do you think they had King and Queen and not just top two people.It was to represent male and female.

 

[blackout]

Because no one was discriminated against. Strawman.

Agreed. The winners were voted in by their piers.

Even if EVERY winning vote had been cast by a female
and/or a homosexual student
it was still a fair vote.

At least as fair as any other popularity contest vote.

 

[Drolefille]

Sorry but if you were a guy wanting the male role out of best male and female in the school(which prom king and queen represent) then you would have been discriminated against. Why do you think they had King and Queen and not just top two people.It was to represent male and female.

Nope, doesn't work that way.
Sorry but just because you think it's true, doesn't mean it is.

If the voting students, approximately half of whom were male, had an issue with it, they didn't have to vote for them. Or if a male wanted to run for queen, he could do that too. Ta da, no discrimination.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sorry but if you were a guy wanting the male role out of best male and female in the school(which prom king and queen represent) then you would have been discriminated against. Why do you think they had King and Queen and not just top two people.It was to represent male and female.

If you decide that the two people who are going to represent the school must be one male and one female, then you're the one engaging in sexual discrimination.

 

[blackout]

I'm also guessing that most guys
do have a sense of humor
and also don't take HS king and queen contests
very seriously.

Any guy who does?
Well let's just say, he wouldn't get my vote. :no:

Really. How corny is it all anyway.

Did I mention these things are supposed to be fun.
As such it is their SOLE purpose for being.
If the kids are having fun,
the purpose has been served.

I'm guessing that more kids had fun with it this year than not.

Even maybe the outcasts.

 

[Kathryn]

So the students didn't give a damn, why should you?

If you were really uninterested you wouldn't have had to tell us so. Instead you seem quite interested in telling us how wrong everyone else is! How shocking! The couple in question acknowledged that they just wanted to run as a couple, and probably wouldn't have cared if it were two queens, but the school and/or student body did it the way they did it.

Why does this require outrage and anger?

Who's outraged?

I said it was ridiculous - and I believe it is. As for "telling you all how wrong everyone else is" - am I wrong in saying that the term "king" is used for male royalty and the term "queen" is used for female royalty? Am I wrong in asserting that when people run for Homecoming King or Queen that they are not generally chosen as a couple, but rather it is a popularity contest for young men and women? Not two women, not two men -but a male and a female.

But - once again - as for whatever a high school student body and faculty agree on in California - I don't care, and I'm not surprised. It's not my tax dollars supporting it. So - I'm not outraged, or even angry.

I AM a bit peeved when people act obtusely and pretend they don't know that "king" is a phrase for a male, and "queen" is a phrase for a female.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I AM a bit peeved when people act obtusely and pretend they don't know that "king" is a phrase for a male, and "queen" is a phrase for a female.

And I'm a bit peeved when people use a weak semantic argument based on a term used for a completely artificial popularity contest as an excuse for discrimination... but different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

[Kathryn]

And I'm a bit peeved when people use a weak semantic argument based on a term used for a completely artificial popularity contest as an excuse for discrimination... but different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

Penguin. I don't care if someone gay is voted as Homecoming King or Queen. I don't care if someone is gay at all. I don't care if we have a gay President, or if a teacher who teaches my kids is gay, or if my coworker is gay. It's their business.

However, the purpose of most Homecoming contests is NOT to crown a particular COUPLE as King and Queen. These contests are nearly always NOT tied to a particular couple - they are to determine the most popular GUY and the most popular GIRL in a school.

Lesbians aren't guys. They're women. This isn't about sexuality - it's about gender. Not the same thing.

A male and a female should win the titles. Because they are male and female titles. Why is sexuality even part of the discussion?

You're trying to make this debate something it's not.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin. I don't care if someone gay is voted as Homecoming King or Queen. I don't care if someone is gay at all. I don't care if we have a gay President, or if a teacher who teaches my kids is gay, or if my coworker is gay. It's their business.

However, the purpose of most Homecoming contests is NOT to crown a particular COUPLE as King and Queen. These contests are nearly always NOT tied to a particular couple - they are to determine the most popular GUY and the most popular GIRL in a school.

Even though the two people don't necessarily have to be in a relationship, calling them "king and queen" does evoke an image of an idealized couple.

You know, I find it a bit hypocritical that you keep harping on some strict definition of these terms even though you implicitly disregard huge parts of that definition yourself.

Lesbians aren't guys. They're women. This isn't about sexuality - it's about gender. Not the same thing.

A male and a female should win the titles. Because they are male and female titles. Why is sexuality even part of the discussion?

You're trying to make this debate something it's not.

Of course it's about sexuality: "king and queen" is an implicitly heterosexual image.

However, it's discriminatory on the basis of gender in the first place To decide that these two representatives of the school should be one boy and one girl.

But think the gender requirement through a bit more: WHY do you think the decision was made to restrict one of the positions to boys and one to girls? If you're right and it's not about sexuality, then it was an arbitrary - and therefore unjustifiable - decision, but if you're wrong and it is about sexuality, then it IS discriminatory for whole other set of reasons. Either way, it's problematic.

 

[waitasec]

some seem to have a problem with the democratic process...

the were voted as king and queen, were they not?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

These contests are nearly always NOT tied to a particular couple - they are to determine the most popular GUY and the most popular GIRL in a school.

Lesbians aren't guys. They're women. This isn't about sexuality - it's about gender. Not the same thing.

A male and a female should win the titles. Because they are male and female titles.

Taking liberty with terms and challenging traditions is what kids do. Sometimes it's unproductive. At other times it's inspiring. Here ...

Arellano said one of her teachers told her, "Today school is a bit better because of you girls."

Ethics trumps English.

 

[Kathryn]

Even though the two people don't necessarily have to be in a relationship, calling them "king and queen" does evoke an image of an idealized couple.

You know, I find it a bit hypocritical that you keep harping on some strict definition of these terms even though you implicitly disregard huge parts of that definition yourself.

Of course it's about sexuality: "king and queen" is an implicitly heterosexual image.

However, it's discriminatory on the basis of gender in the first place To decide that these two representatives of the school should be one boy and one girl.

But think the gender requirement through a bit more: WHY do you think the decision was made to restrict one of the positions to boys and one to girls? If you're right and it's not about sexuality, then it was an arbitrary - and therefore unjustifiable - decision, but if you're wrong and it is about sexuality, then it IS discriminatory for whole other set of reasons. Either way, it's problematic.

I don't see how voting for a male and a female is problematic. No one expects the Homecoming King and Queen to be a couple engaged in an intimate relationship - that's not the focus of the contest whatsoever. The focus is to choose a "king" and "queen" (and like it or not, those words definitely denote gender) as representatives of the school.

How can that possibly be discriminatory?

 

[Father Heathen]

This is absurd. I haven't read all the posts on this thread, so I am probably repeating what others have said, but if I was the girl who was crowned King, I'd be offended. Lesbians are FEMALES. She's not a "king" - she's a "queen."

As others have said, these (outdated and in my opinion ridiculous) popularity contests have nothing to do with whether or not the kids involved are a couple - in fact, they rarely are.

With that in mind, I'd say this event was at least in part finagled, and certainly exploited, by special interest groups.

While I agree proms and homecomings are useless wastes of time and money, how is equality, something that should be afforded every citizen of this country, a "special interest"?

 

[Panda]

I don't see how voting for a male and a female is problematic. No one expects the Homecoming King and Queen to be a couple engaged in an intimate relationship - that's not the focus of the contest whatsoever. The focus is to choose a "king" and "queen" (and like it or not, those words definitely denote gender) as representatives of the school.

How can that possibly be discriminatory?

Is it not up to the students of the school how they want to do it? If they want there king and queen both to be female than why does it matter?

 

[Skwim]

It appears the two girls were pretty well liked by the other students, and these other students wanted to make a statement that sexual preference should not be an issue of judgment. While selecting the two to rein as king and queen might seem an over-the-top way to express this feeling, that the students chose it speaks to their priorities: de-demonizing homosexuality is more important than adhering to the rules of gender roles. In reality, only males are kings, but it's not one of those rules that, in a fictional situation, is going to suffer by breaking it.

That any student, male or female, is crowned king carries no more power than crowning them cod fish. It's a fictitious title, and as such can be constituted of whatever one wishes. Think king should only apply to males? Fine, but why make their selection one of popularity (by popular vote) when real kings are seldom chosen this way? Isn't that breaking one of the "King rules"? If you're going to consistently break one of the rules of kingship, hereditary monarchy, then why can't a student body occasionally break the gender rule: males only?

 

[Me Myself]

Who's outraged?

I said it was ridiculous - and I believe it is. As for "telling you all how wrong everyone else is" - am I wrong in saying that the term "king" is used for male royalty and the term "queen" is used for female royalty?

Am I wrong in asserting that the "king and queen" of the prom are not restricted to those with royal blood?

Because if I am not Queen and King get very wide and subjective interpretation that is open to the voters.

The focus is to choose a "king" and "queen" (and like it or not, those words definitely denote gender) as representatives of the school.

ANd like it or not those words definetely denote royalty. Should I feel discriminated if I wass at a prom as royalty and a non-royal student took my place?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don't see how voting for a male and a female is problematic. No one expects the Homecoming King and Queen to be a couple engaged in an intimate relationship - that's not the focus of the contest whatsoever.

The relationship is symbolic.

And I as I pointed out before, you have two choices:

-the homecoming "king" and "queen" are about portraying a particular heterosexual ideal (albeit symbolically)... in which case, it IS about sexual orientation and the students at this school are right to object.

- the decision to make them male and female has nothing to do with sexuality at all, and is simply arbitrary. In that case, there's no good reason to keep the tradition when it's clear that the majority of the students at the school don't want to.

The focus is to choose a "king" and "queen" (and like it or not, those words definitely denote gender) as representatives of the school.

And like it or not, those words definitely denote other things as well, which you conveniently ignore when it suits your purposes, but then you turn around and complain when someone else does the exact same thing. It's hypocritical.

A "homecoming king" falls far short of the mark of an actual king in any number of ways. If we don't worry about the definition, then this doesn't matter... but when you come in and argue that the definition does matter, then it becomes relevant.

How can that possibly be discriminatory?

We're talking about restricting what people can run for on the basis of gender and you can't figure out how this is discriminatory? Really?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

am I wrong in saying that the term "king" is used for male royalty and the term "queen" is used for female royalty?

You're wrong in arguing that ignoring the "royalty" part of the definition of these terms is acceptable but ignoring the "male and female" part is not. There's no justification for holding firm to the gender part of the definition that doesn't also imply that they should also hold firm to the royalty part.

If we're going to be pedantic about the definition of "king" and "queen", then we shouldn't apply the terms at all to teenage commoners living in a republic.