Hinduist would you agree with this statement?

[ratikala]

@ratikala - your thoughts about people going to different realms associated with their deity, after death, is interesting to me, thanks for sharing. But for me personally, such ideas feel too dogmatic, too speculative and hence I do not hold any strong opinions on them yet. But my mind is open. I view the existence of Deities in a similar manner - interesting, but too dogmatic/speculative for me to form a conviction.

I am not speculating I am refering to shastra .....

The Rigveda (1.22.20) states, Oṃ tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ: "All the suras (devas) look towards the Supreme Abode of Lord Vishnu'' referring to Vaikuntha, the Supreme Abode. ....quote Wickipidia

Rigveda is first and most sacred text consisting of hymns prasing the gods .... veda meaning knowledge and truth .


prehaps maitra varuni ji would be kind enough to give a perfect translation :namaste

 

[punkdbass]

Alright, I will try to hold my tongue when it comes to the nature of the "deities" or afterlife.. there is still much about Vedanta I have yet to learn our be exposed to.

 

[Jaskaran Singh]

I am not speculating I am refering to shastra .....

The Rigveda (1.22.20) states, Oṃ tad viṣṇoḥ paramam padam sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ: "All the suras (devas) look towards the Supreme Abode of Lord Vishnu'' referring to Vaikuntha, the Supreme Abode. ....quote Wickipidia

Rigveda is first and most sacred text consisting of hymns prasing the gods .... veda meaning knowledge and truth .


prehaps maitra varuni ji would be kind enough to give a perfect translation :namaste

I would translate "tád víShNoH paramám padáM sádA pashyanti sUráyaH divIva cákShurÁtatam" as "the sUri-s (i.e. muni-s/chiranjIvI-s, etc.) perpetually observe that highest abode of viShNu [which is] established as the eye of the heavens" although MV usually translates sUráyaH as "princes" (for some reason which I don't know).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Heaven and Hell ? .....isnt that some what of a Christianised veiw if Hindu cosmology ???

Is it? Do not we have Indra's heaven and Yama's naraka? What is the Christianization in it? One goes to the lokas of Gods if one deserves it, otherwise one of the former two.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You admit that you understand Buddhist rebirth but say it does not work for you, why exactly does it not work for you? (this is not a rhetorical question, I'm trying to understand your problem with Buddhist rebirth). I know you reject the "Hindu" idea of rebirth or reincarnation correct?

I would not say that I understand the Buddhist rebirth. There might be many variations of rebirth in Buddhist sects. You see, in Buddhism and Hinduism, it is difficult to say that you have seen all. My problem with Buddhist karma is transference without a medium. Why should karmas of one being get attached to a new being? I have not done anything wrong, I am a new being, why should I be burdened with the deeds of Osama bin Laden. After all, the sins of Osama and the 9/11 bombers have already been attached to beings who had nothing to do with the incident. Perhaps to a rat too? Why? What justification?

I guess your statement answers my question. But to clarify: what exactly is "physical energy?" And wouldn't you admit that Brahman is void of the mental concept of "physical energy"?

Punkd, that is a difficult question, no less difficult to than describing Brahman. Brahman, in my view is not 'void of mental concept of physical energy' (whatever it may mean). We are told that any space has energy (Zero point energy). So Space, Energy, Mass, and Time, are coeval. Some emergence of one of the four gave rise to the universe. We do not know from where they arise and where they get dissipated if they do so, or if they are eternal. Energy is four fundamental forces.

Interaction - Current theory
Strong - Quantum chromodynamics (QCD)
Electromagnetic - Quantum electrodynamics (QED)
Weak - Electroweak Theory (EWT)
Gravitation - General Relativity (GR)
Fundamental interaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Jaskaran ji :namaste

thank you for your translation ..

I would translate "tád víShNoHp paramám padáM sádA pashyanti sUráyaH divIva cákShurÁtatam"


as "the sUri-s (i.e. muni-s/chiranjIvI-s, etc.) perpetually observe that highest abode of viShNu [which is] established as the eye of the heavens" although MV usually translates sUráyaH as "princes" (for some reason which I don't know).

if MV ji chooses to translate as Princes then I will hapily grant that as his poetic licence

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji :namaste

Is it? Do not we have Indra's heaven and Yama's naraka? What is the Christianization in it? One goes to the lokas of Gods if one deserves it, otherwise one of the former two.

is it a christian concept .... YES! .....DO I HAVE TO SPELL IT OUT ......obviously I do

Christians belive in one heaven and one hell ...heaven for good actions , hell for bad actions ......

Hindus belive in rebirth , and that your Actions dictate the kind of birth you will subsequently take ....good actions result in a fortunate birth , bad actions in an un fortunate birth , .... only devotion takes one to the Heavenly realms of which there are many not one ....as devotion is selfless it is nishkam karma and devotion caries no reaction one is elevated to one of the Heavenly abodes; Lokas....

please note that I said Heavenly ... not Heaven as in one singular residing place of the one abrahamic god .

Hindu rebirth or reincarnation is straight forward. Punishment for evil deeds (hell), rewards for good deeds (heaven)

No not so simple ....the, ... good==heaven , Bad ==hell , with nothing in between is the christian concept I abandoned for the far more refined understanding held by Buddhists and Hindus .

 

[ratikala]

Is it? Do not we have Indra's heaven and Yama's naraka? What is the Christianization in it? One goes to the lokas of Gods if one deserves it, otherwise one of the former two.

but you do not deserve it by good actions ....one is granted it on account of ones selfless devotion .

and if you are devoted to yama then off you go .....

 

[Ravi500]

The theory of reincarnation can be found in the upanishads, and especially in the bhagavad gita, where Krishna emphasises the teaching of reincarnation to Arjuna.

It is also there in Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism.

Dr. Brian Weiss, a well-established pyschiatrist himself, have written a couple of books on the subject , based on the findings derived on the hypnosis of his patients, after finding that medication and therapy was not helping them much .

Indeed , you can find from the book that most of our present ailments and phobias seems to stem from past lives.

A lady suffering from hydrophobia happened to a young boy who had drowned in a past life.

A man suffering from claustrophobia happened to be a man who was buried alive during some tribal conflicts.

A man suffering from a present stomach ailment , found himself to have died after being stabbed in the stomach in a past life.

I believe that most of the ailments or diseases we get are really psychosomatic illnesses, originating from some karmic events in the past.


I would say the teachings of the Upanishadic sages, Krishna, Buddha, Mahavira, the Sikh Gurus and now the works of Dr. Brian Weiss, all shows the possibility that reincarnation can be a true fact.

 

[Aupmanyav]

but you do not deserve it by good actions ....one is granted it on account of ones selfless devotion .

and if you are devoted to yama then off you go .....

That is not much of Hinduism, but more like Christianity and Islam. You worship the God, and God sends you to heaven. If you don't you suffer in hell for all eternity. Who is the Hindu God or Goddess who can deny heaven to a righteous person, even if the person might not be a Hindu? That would be a travesty of justice. It is a right and not alms.

Yama also is a Hindu God, son of Surya, doing his assigned duty honestly and silently. He is the 'dharma raja', and father of one of the honest most characters of Indian mythology, Yudhishthira. Nachiketa went to Yama and learned the secrets. What is wrong with Yama? After all, all of you will go to him after death (I will not, because my story finishes with death. After that I would be a part of millions of things, living and non-living. For me, there is no Yama, no death, no rebirth).

You see, Ratikala, Hinduism runs on principles of justice and not on whims of Gods and Goddesses. SSee what happened to Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva when they tried to play tricks with Anusooya. They were turned into suckling babes.

 

[Tyaga]

Yama's naraka?

Yama was ruler of heaven in the Vedic mythology.Just like Iranian Yima.

 

[Aupmanyav]

That was only a matter of saying. Yama is incharge of the 'Office of Death' (judgment on souls) and is aided by our able accountant, Chitragupta, of the Kayastha caste, according to the deeds of people. In today's Hinduism, the Chief of lesser Gods is Indra.

 

[Asha]

That is not much of Hinduism, but more like Christianity and Islam. You worship the God, and God sends you to heaven. If you don't you suffer in hell for all eternity. Who is the Hindu God or Goddess who can deny heaven to a righteous person, even if the person might not be a Hindu? That would be a travesty of justice. It is a right and not alms.

Not much like Hinduism ?

Devotion is Bhakti Yoga.

As far as I understand Bhakti Yoga is a fundamental part of Hinduism, and common to many traditions.

With Bhakti there are no conditions placed upon love, if one loves God one is surrendered. Therefore the devotee says to the lord I accept your will, he does not worship God with a desire for a result, he worships out of love.
He does not worship with a veiw of ataining Heaven or avoiding Hell.

Further more it is not God who stands in judgement granting entry to Heaven or casting one into the depths of hell, it is our actions which dictate the result.

We are responcible for our own actions.

After all, all of you will go to him after death (I will not, because my story finishes with death. After that I would be a part of millions of things, living and non-living. For me, there is no Yama, no death, no rebirth).

You imagine that you can just rewrite the laws of the universe ?

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not against Bhakti, I was commenting on Ratikala's these words:

.. but you do not deserve it by good actions ....one is granted it on account of ones selfless devotion.

I am not against Bhakti, I was commenting on Ratikala's words. Good actions will certainly bring good results (including stays in heaven..if there is any). Gods will approve of it post-haste.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

I am not against Bhakti, I was commenting on Ratikala's words. Good actions will certainly bring good results (including stays in heaven..if there is any). Gods will approve of it post-haste.

''I was commenting''

then let me ask you some simple questions Aupmanyav ji

Why , what for ?

Why comment ?

Why give your opinion on what Gods will or will not do when time and time again you say that you do not belive in them ?

 

[ratikala]

You see, Ratikala, Hinduism runs on principles of justice and not on whims of Gods and Goddesses.

Why talk to me like a child ? .... do you think that I do not know that Hinduism runs on principles .....Eternal principles ...Sanatana Dharma . ...LAW .


to discuss any further is futile as it seams you simply enjoy to mince my words .what concerns me most is the impression created for those reading and enquiring into Hinduism , you may not beleive but please do not muddle beleifs for the sake of others .

with thanks

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why give your opinion on what Gods will or will not do when time and time again you say that you do not believe in them?

The topic asked me whether I believed in a statement or not. I am giving my opinion.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why talk to me like a child ? .. do you think that I do not know that Hinduism runs on principles .. Eternal principles .. Sanatana Dharma .. LAW.


to discuss any further is futile as it seams you simply enjoy to mince my words.

No, Ratikala, no. I would derive no pleasure from hurting my sister. You know Hinduism well, and you know Buddhism also just as well. I am really proud of having such a sister. Yes, Hinduism works on principles, and Gods too respect the principles that they make for others. They have to establish examples, as Lord Rama did by accepting exile for 14 years and Lord Krishna did by advising Arjuna to fight if his duty demanded it.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji

The topic asked me whether I believed in a statement or not. I am giving my opinion.

the original question asking your opinion , unless I missunderstand it completely ? ...was
asking about the order of schools who accept the authority of the vedas and the impact that has on hinduism today .....as ususl the conversation wanders of into discussions about caste injustices ....then rebirth ...so if we are going to talk about rebirth and call it the hindu veiw on rebirth lets not make sweeping generalisations which are not in line with the vedas ......

you were giving your opinion , yes ... you were giving your opinion on what I said regarding rebirth . ....not on thr original post .

I understand full well that you do not accept the principle of karma and you do not belive in gods ....but please do not give people your opinion as fact ...
you choose to see only to the end of this life and deny that there is anything beyond so you talk flipantly about the gods as if they are only mythologies ...if this is what the study of science has done for mankind then it is against the vedas... the studdy of matter has become more important than gaining knowledge of god ...in this instance we are like children studdying our toes ...

But of course this is normal for a child we do not expect a childs awareness to have developed beyond that of its own self ....but prabhu ji you are a grown man you have responcibilities if you call your self hindu please do not misslead people by rejecting the vedas and everything pertaining to them by regarding them as mythologies alone .

you may not belive in rebirth but that does not mean that it is not a truth , ...your grandchild sits on your knee and gazes into your face he does not understand what it is to be old , he canot understand anything beyond what he is now , but that dosent mean he will allways remain a child .

we are children in the lap of god , and in the same way we understand nothing but ourselves , that does not mean that god does not exist .

your sister cares about you , she worries when she hears you talking noncence for the sake of speaking , she cares about the others listening to this noncence ...please let us have a conversation which goes beyond opinion .

 

[Aupmanyav]

Yama was ruler of heaven in the Vedic mythology.Just like Iranian Yima.

That was only a matter of saying. Yama is incharge of the 'Office of Death' (judgment on souls) and is aided by our able accountant, Chitragupta, of the Kayastha caste, according to the deeds of people. In today's Hinduism, the Chief of lesser Gods is Indra.

That is according to Puranas. "In the Vedas, Yama is said to have been the first mortal who died. By virtue of precedence, he became the ruler of the departed, called "Lord of the Pitrs"." Yama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have a nice hymn dedicated to Yama at http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10014.htm (Book 10, Hymn 14). One line in the hymn which interested me was: "Yama first found for us a place to dwell in: this pasture never can be taken from Us." So, it was the pastures at that time in which Aryans were most interested. And the priests eulogized in the hymn were Angirasas, Navagwahas, Atharvans, and Bhrigus.

"Yama and his sister Yami, the first human pair, are identical with the Persian Yima and Yimeh of Avestan literature; they are the primeval "twins", the children of Vivasvat, or Vivasvant, in the Rigveda and of Vivahvant in the Avesta. Yama signifies twin, and Dr. Rendel Harris, in his researches on the Greek Dioscuri cult, shows that among early peoples the belief obtained widely that one of each pair of twins was believed to be a child of the sky. "This conjecture is borne out by the name of Yama's father (Vivasvant), which may well be a cult-epithet of the bright sky, 'shining abroad' (from the root vas, 'to shine'). .. In the Avesta 'Yima, the bright' is referred to: he is the Jamshid." http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/iml/iml08.htm

Yima was a favorite of Ahur Mazda, but is considered to have sinned later, which was the cause of his death.