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[Hindus Only] Question for Hindus

kalyan

Aspiring Sri VaishNava
Whomever said this? There are some schools in hinduism that don't accept Bhagavad Gita as pramana.
oh god :facepalm:, i am not talking about who accepts it or not..... have you read the BG,

Sarvopanishado gaavo dogdhaa Gopala nandanaha


Paartho vatsah sudheer bhoktaa dugdham gitaamritam mahat
Hmm....Okay where is your proof for this from Shastra?
If i show this, would you accept your faith as avaidik which it is in first place and discard it ?

I have given you our Bhasya on the Vedanta Sutras to read, clarifying our position in accordance with Shastra.
this bhasya has all the copied stuff that was already well written by the poorva acharyas

Why are you rejecting the verses I am giving from Bhagavatam?
I would not even bite to this stupid question

Again I realized that you failed to say and I repeat as who broke the madhva tradition to establish this new faith, was it chaitanya?
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Sarvopanishado gaavo dogdhaa Gopala nandanaha

That quotation is not from Bhagavad Gita, but a shloka written by Sanakaracharya in his Gita Mahatmya.

i show this, would you accept your faith as avaidik which it is in first place and discard it ?

First present one evidence that is accepted by both of us and if Shastra contradicts me, I will accept it.

I would not even bite to this stupid question

Or avoidance ahahaa

Again I realized that you failed to say and I repeat as who broke the madhva tradition to establish this new faith, was it chaitanya?

This line of reasoning (of breaking Sampradaya it totally wrong). That Mantra lineage did not break, but Siddhanta changed dramatically when Lord Chaitanya advented. The meaning of Vedanta is like a tree, it evolves through time, however only Lord Hari can establish Yuga Dharma, this is clear in Bhagavad Gita (dharma sansthaparthaya sambhavami yuge yuge). In every age Lord Hari appears.

this bhasya has all the copied stuff that was already well written by the poorva acharyas

Hmmm, without even reading the Bhasya you say this. If you read further, Baladeva Vidyabhusana does establish Radharani.

Seriously, dude, take a chill pill, do a reality check, and quit being so mean. sheeesh.

Tell me about it, I don't want to continue this argument (you should see the Gaudiya Thread lol, its like x10 worse), but what choice do I have if our teachings are attacked?
 

kalyan

Aspiring Sri VaishNava
First present one evidence that is accepted by both of us and if Shastra contradicts me, I will accept it.
what is your implication here ? do you want me to show the venkateswara in vedam or do you want me to show it is the last avatar of vishnu that walked in kali yuga? If your viewpoint is first, then you should not be posting in dir, if you want second I can show it but be prepared :evil:
you have become too blind of a bhakt to apply your buddhi here
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
what is your implication here ? do you want me to show the venkateswara in vedam or do you want me to show it is the last avatar of vishnu that walked in kali yuga?

Both. I am trying to find out is why you are accepting the proofs of Lord Venkateswara in the Vedas while rejecting the proofs of Lord Chaitanya in Vedas (when neither are of them are mentioned in Dasavatar). Just as you can provide shlokas to support your claim, I can support shlokas to support mine. What right do you have to condemn my verses as "fake" while yours as Vedam? Isn't this kind of logic (ardha kukkurka nyaya) hypocritical? Anyway can we please continue this debate elsewhere (another forum or private message) as I don't want to spam other users with notifications.
 

kalyan

Aspiring Sri VaishNava
lol, ok just for the fun of it, i will post your nitai link only :D
http://nitaaiveda.com/NITAAI_Yoga_F...pati_Balaji_Venkateswara_from_the_Puranas.htm

Second veda vyasa mentions venkateswara in most of his puranas, Vaishnava agamas clearly say about Sri Venkateswara and the history behind Sri Maha Vishnu appearing in Tirumala. I take it first point is proven and will post about second point soon, be prepared to abandon your faith now!


Lord Chaitanya in Vedas
please you should shut up about it! now from bhagawatham to vedas ?
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
lol, ok just for the fun of it, i will post your nitai link only :D
http://nitaaiveda.com/NITAAI_Yoga_F...pati_Balaji_Venkateswara_from_the_Puranas.htm

Hahaha, what I love about this is that the article is compiled by my own Gurudeva (jaya Gurudeva!!) and later on in the article he also discussed the verses pertaining to Lord Chaitanya in the Puranas. Since this article is by my Gurudeva, I accept it, but that also means I accept Lord Chaitanya. Also, reading the article even more, I find the following instructions of Sri Ramanuja before his disappearnce from this world. He said:

"Do not consider anything related to our Lord as ordinary. There is nothing
greater than making our Lord and his devotees happy. Insulting a devotee is
a greater sin
than not praying to the Lord. "

Hmmm, something to think about Kalyanji. Can't we just agree to disagree here and end the debate?

Second veda vyasa mentions venkateswara in most of his puranas, Vaishnava agamas clearly say about Sri Venkateswara and the history behind Sri Maha Vishnu appearing in Tirumala. I take it first point is proven and will post about second point soon, be prepared to abandon your faith now!

Again I want the proof right here, not some claim that He (Veda Vyasa) did. If you want to talk about Vaishnava agamas, then these very same Vaishnava agamas also support the position of Radharani and Lord Chaitanya. I will post the verses from those very agamas here:

srimad-bhagavatam divyam
puranam vacanam tada
gauranvayasya sampraptir
bhavisyati na samsayah


"Then he will hear the splendid Srimad Bhagavatam Purana, which predicts that the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in a Golden form (of Lord Chaitanya). Of this there is no doubt." (Garga Samhita 5.24.83)

Radharani is also described in Gautamiya Tantra as below:

"devi krishna-mayi prokta
radhika para-devata
sarva-lakshmi-mayi sarva
kantih sammohini para
"

"“The transcendental goddess Srimati Radharani is the direct counterpart of Lord Sri Krsna. She is the central figure for all the Lakshmis. She possesses all the attractiveness to attract the all-attractive Personality of Godhead. She is the primeval internal potency of the Lord."

hmm so if we accept Lord Venkateshwar from the Vaishnava agamas, then we must also accept Sri Chaitanya and Radharani.

please you should shut up about it! now from bhagawatham to vedas ?

Bhagavatam is equal to the Vedas (in our humble opinion) in authority.Vedas refers to any authorised scriptures. You have not described why you don't accept Bhagavatam.

Please see here for proof of Lord Chaitanya:

http://gaudiyahistory.iskcondesiretree.com/shastric-evidence-of-sri-chaitanyas-divine-appearance/

ALSO @निताइ dasa see how that posted website tampers Ramanuja's history by him seeing gauranga and all...I consider it highly offensive

Well I am sorry for this offence. In my opinion it increases the glories of Sri Ramanuja more :)
 
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kalyan

Aspiring Sri VaishNava
Hahaha, what I love about this is that the article is compiled by my own Gurudeva (jaya Gurudeva!!) and later on in the article he also discussed the verses pertaining to Lord Chaitanya in the Puranas. Since this article is by my Gurudeva, I accept it, but that also means I accept Lord Chaitanya. Also, reading the article even more, I find the following instructions of Sri Ramanuja before his disappearnce from this world. He said:

"Do not consider anything related to our Lord as ordinary. There is nothing
greater than making our Lord and his devotees happy. Insulting a devotee is
a greater sin
than not praying to the Lord. "

Hmmm, something to think about Kalyanji. Can't we just agree to disagree here and end the debate?



Again I want the proof right here, not some claim that He (Veda Vyasa) did. If you want to talk about Vaishnava agamas, then these very same Vaishnava agamas also support the position of Radharani and Lord Chaitanya. I will post the verses from those very agamas here:

srimad-bhagavatam divyam
puranam vacanam tada
gauranvayasya sampraptir
bhavisyati na samsayah


"Then he will hear the splendid Srimad Bhagavatam Purana, which predicts that the Supreme Personality of Godhead will appear in a Golden form (of Lord Chaitanya). Of this there is no doubt." (Garga Samhita 5.24.83)

Radharani is also described in Gautamiya Tantra as below:

"devi krishna-mayi prokta
radhika para-devata
sarva-lakshmi-mayi sarva
kantih sammohini para
"

"“The transcendental goddess Srimati Radharani is the direct counterpart of Lord Sri Krsna. She is the central figure for all the Lakshmis. She possesses all the attractiveness to attract the all-attractive Personality of Godhead. She is the primeval internal potency of the Lord."

hmm so if we accept Lord Venkateshwar from the Vaishnava agamas, then we must also accept Sri Chaitanya and Radharani.



Bhagavatam is equal to the Vedas (in our humble opinion) in authority.Vedas refers to any authorised scriptures. You have not described why you don't accept Bhagavatam.

Please see here for proof of Lord Chaitanya:

http://gaudiyahistory.iskcondesiretree.com/shastric-evidence-of-sri-chaitanyas-divine-appearance/



Well I am sorry for this offence. In my opinion it increases the glories of Sri Ramanuja more :)
Radha is never mentioned in bhagawatham...you only agreed this prior. 2nd its not funny, the tamperings of Ramanuja history in that link is not funny..The idiot ( i dont care if he is ur gurudeva or not) who posted it should retract that injections in Ramanuja history.just like a modern day charlatan .. He mixes legitimate history and mixed it with his own injections, this CLEARLY proves more that chaitanya is fake or else why get into trouble with so many injections???
2nd i am talking about vedam in particular not what you treat as vedam.
3rd you are completely defeated in relation to Venkateswara, there are numerous referencrs that were posted from the link itself from varaha purana...so you should completely accept politely that chaitanya is fake!

Wow so much trouble to establish fake character
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
And FYI, Krushna is not 'form of god. he is THE god, that is what BG and Vedas say, there cannot be any other god!

You are referring to the Mahanarayana upanishad? If not then can you kindly point me to the veda verse?
 

shivsomashekhar

Well-Known Member
Since this article is by my Gurudeva, I accept it, but that also means I accept Lord Chaitanya.

Hi @निताइ dasa, out of curiosity, do you see that you are employing circular logic?

Chaitanya must be an avatar because the Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharyas say so. The statements of Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharyas must be true because they come in the line of Chaitanya.

You are using the two to support each other, which is a logical fallacy.
 

निताइ dasa

Nitai's servant's servant
Hi @निताइ dasa, out of curiosity, do you see that you are employing circular logic?

Chaitanya must be an avatar because the Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharyas say so. The statements of Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharyas must be true because they come in the line of Chaitanya.

You are using the two to support each other, which is a logical fallacy.

Yes I am well aware. In my analysis, circular logic is how all the Vedas (or any other scripture) get their authority. The Vedas are perfect because they say they are perfect (or someone else says they are perfect). Sabda operates on this basis, but it is not considered a fallacy (at least to Hindus) because the standard of proof is generally common. That is precisely the point I am trying to make to Kalyanji. we place our faith in different schools as per our experiences.I do not regard the statements of the Gaudiya Acharyas as truth because they come in the line of Sri Chaitanya-deva, but rather my experiences have led to my faith unto the Gaudiya Acharyas, and hence I accept them as authoritative. Through their authority I accept Lord Chaitanya. They form my standard of proof. It is disrespectful to attack another school for their conclusions simply because they have a different standard of proof. All fields of knowledge are ground upon assumptions, and thus cannot be proven entirely true. It is experience that forces us to accept or reject the various worldviews. That is the vakhya of the Upanisads, yasya deve para bhaktir, yatha deva tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante (Svet.Upanisad)
 
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ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram Kalyan ji , ...

ok i understand that chaitanya got you into Krushna bhakti, but as human beings we constantly evolve, and our knowledge expands day by day, so instead of trusting controversial stories, why can't you hold on to the established authoritative ones? Like you can always approach the feet of Sri Maha Lakshmi/Bhoo devi/Neela devi instead of Radha and when you have every chance to worship the feet of an acharya like Ramanuja why go to the others who have all sorts of fake stories around them ?

I have thought about your question throughout the day , ....yes , it is true , as human beings we evolve , our knowledge may expand , ....but I am not interested so much in Knowledge , except in the instance of experiencial knowledge , I am not Jnanai , not in this lifetime , ....and again and again however much l think this one through , my answer is much the same , .......Krrsna himself is all atractive yes , ...do you agree?
then this being so he will attract us each in different ways , he will attract us due to our own propencities , ...

so when you hear the passtimes of Radha and Krsna this does not appeal to you , for you your needs are different so you must look for verification of their athenticity because you do not instincively understand their nature , .....

Now if Balaji , Sri devi and Bhu devi were to appear over night in my shrine room , then l would beleive that they wanted me to worship them , so naturaly I would want to know more about their nature , their divine atributes , ....but instead l met a Guru who gave me the seva of Radha Krsna , he put RadhaMadhava in by hands this is enough for this one lifetime , ....in this lifetime I will be happy just to deepen my understanding of their nature , ....I canot say that any one form of devotion is higher than another only that as we deepen in understanding which ever school of devotion we belong to the understanding of that particular form will deepen , our apreciation will become stronger , this appreciation does not come in bottles or through reading authotitive texts it comes from unaloyed devotion to which ever form the Lord appears to you in this lifetime , ....

but you ask about ''controversial stories'' ...now that you ask I have something to add to this subject , ...why did the Vrindarban Lila remain hidden for so long ? .....why is it you canot find mention of it is in other Shastra ? ...because it is confidential , ....what passes between a man and woman even in great sagas like the Mahabarata remains untold except in the occasion that the wife bears children , this becomes noteworty beacause they will inturn play a part in the grand Scheme of things but their actual personal relations remain untold it is a mere matter of politeness , ....secondly one must remember the deception played on Kamsa , ..it was fortoled that the eighth child of Devaki would kill Kamsa , ......if it were written anywhere prior to the fortelling that the Baby would be swaped in the night and would be taken to Vrindarban then the evil king would track him down , if anyone spoke of Krsnas Vrindarban Lila the killing of Kamsa would never have happened , ....so it was Krsnas will that this lila must remain Hidden untill after the date , ......so naturaly these private and confidential lila remained in the hearts of those to who he was enjoying this hidden lila , ...only to emerge later as an illustration of Suddha Bhakti , .....



Its like resorting to begging when you have millions in the bank already there for you

if I had millions in the bank I would build a temple for RadhaMadhava , then still I would be the begger of their mercy Daily :)

but I may also make a special place Balaji Sri devi , Bhu devi and Nila devi as I do rather like them too , ...


Vaikunta+Ekadashi+at+Tirupati+Balaji+Temple.jpg


so Beautifull I would like to sing to them too and make them garlands , ..so when I find a million in my bank account I will call you you can come here and teach me more about Sri Venkatesvara , ....
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
Ok Prabhu ji's this is enough , ....

I come home to answer post 163 , ...I think , ...Ratikala do not read the rest or your mind and peacefullnes will become distracted , ...Huhhh I should have said disturbed , ....

so now I have posted my reply to Kalyan ji , ...I read the rest , ...Oh Krsna !!! ....this is Kaliyuga gone mad , .... ...''He is Married '', ...''No he is not'' , ..''he has sallon hair cut ''!!! , ...''you are sikh get out of this DIR'' , ... @Treks ji do not worry please stay this is comedy hour everyone is welcome !!! ....Atanu ji ... thank you ..Ive been thinking that is the only consolation for days , .....

Ha ha. The argumentative Hindus. But we don't kill people on account of differences. That is a very big plus. Ha ha.


thank you Guys I havent laughed so much in ages , ...


Hmmm, something to think about Kalyan ji. Can't we just agree to disagree here and end the debate?

Yes Kalyan ji , ....I think it is time to end the Debate , .... I do not want to hear the word Fake , Falacy , or any such accusing of anyone tampering with scriptures , .......or I think I know what will happen , .....

Sri Bhagavan is getting his Horse ready now , ...he will be here shortly , ...that will definatly be the end of it , ....

800px-Kalki_avatar_of_Visnu._Panjabi_manuscript_255_Wellcome_L0040774.jpg
 
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