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Holes in the trinity

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
Satan is not the "god" of evil. There is an angelic hierarchy in the scriptures, and we also are part of a hierarchy:

Pss 8
[3] When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
[4] What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
[5] For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
[6] Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
[7] All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;
[8] The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

Heb 2
[6] But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
[7] Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
[8] Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The psalmist's choice of the expression "THE son of man" may refer to Moshiach, as a unique individual. I will have to check this:

Psa 8:4 (8:5)
מה אנושׁ כי תזכרנו ובן אדם כי תפקדנו׃

I though so... a more appropriate translation would seem to be A son of man, not THE. (There's no "ה" prefix, or direct article). Without prompting from the NT or Enoch, then, the scripture simply says

"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? even a son of Adam, that thou visitest him?

Bunny trail over; back to Satan. In Job, he is called a "son of God":

Job 2
[1] Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Despite the protestations of Trinitarians here, being a "son of God" indicates that one is definitely NOT God, but one of his creatures. For cross-reference, note:

Luke 3
[37] Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
[38] Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Satan was therefore not "God", but a creation, ranked somewhere in with the angels and men. Some men and other dignitaries were referred to in scripture as "elohim", a term usually applied to God; and indeed, the false gods of the pagans were also called "elohim". Nevertheless, the scriptures are emphatic that none of these, to the extent that they actually existed, was of the status of YHVH:

Exodus 34
[12] Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:
[13] But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:
[14] For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

"Uniting with the world" is not an option for Jews. When they have failed to heed this of their own, the goiim (non-Jews) have been all to eager to set them straight.

Except Exodus as we know it is dated to have been drafted during the Babylonian Exile, it would be a good way to distinguish themselves from the Babylonians.

Also I find it interesting that Isaiah never mentions a covenant with God...I'll have to re-read that again...but Hosea does.

You'll also find that there were writings of Asherah of Yahweh (or of the like), indicating a God that was a consort to Yahweh.
 

BlandOatmeal

Active Member
Except Exodus as we know it is dated to have been drafted during the Babylonian Exile, it would be a good way to distinguish themselves from the Babylonians.

Also I find it interesting that Isaiah never mentions a covenant with God...I'll have to re-read that again...but Hosea does.

You'll also find that there were writings of Asherah of Yahweh (or of the like), indicating a God that was a consort to Yahweh.
"Dated"? Was there a postmark?
 
However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. Matthew 24:36

You are preaching against Matthew 24:36. Yes or no?

Jesus did not know everything when he was on earth. He emptied Himself and took the form of man. With that he had to learn to speak, walk, learn about God etc. However, His knowledge was the knowledge of God. Jesus stated, "...before Abraham was, I AM.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus did not know everything when he was on earth. He emptied Himself and took the form of man. With that he had to learn to speak, walk, learn about God etc. However, His knowledge was the knowledge of God. Jesus stated, "...before Abraham was, I AM.

Jesus is before Abraham in importance, not time.
 

Athan

Member
You say Jesus is God. But Jesus is God's son. Do you believe in the trinity that God and Jesus is one and that Jesus is God's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe God has a beginning?
A man says he's a father. But he is his father's son. Do you believe that he and his father are one (in purpose) and that he is his father's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe his father has a beginning? I do, and I believe God did too (at least in terms of having a spirit as well as a natural body).

Man is as God once was.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A man says he's a father. But he is his father's son. Do you believe that he and his father are one (in purpose) and that he is his father's son? How? The definition of son is someone born to or adopted. That means a beginning. Do you believe his father has a beginning? I do, and I believe God did too (at least in terms of having a spirit as well as a natural body).

Man is as God once was.

You believe god has a beginning. So is the Holy Spirit God's Father? Should we be worshipping The Holy Spirit, according to you, it being the most highest influentially?
 

Athan

Member
You believe god has a beginning. So is the Holy Spirit God's Father? Should we be worshipping The Holy Spirit, according to you, it being the most highest influentially?
I believe God has a beginning in terms of His spirit and His natural body. I believe He always existed as an intelligence prior to that. The Holy Spirit is also a son of God.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe God has a beginning in terms of His spirit and His natural body. I believe He always existed as an intelligence prior to that. The Holy Spirit is also a son of God.

I believe Yehoshua had a physical beginning and the Spirit Of God Who has no beginning dwelled in the man. The difference between the Spirit which dwelled in him and the same Spirit that dwells in us is perfection. His body was prepared for it.
 

Athan

Member
I believe Yehoshua had a physical beginning and the Spirit Of God Who has no beginning dwelled in the man. The difference between the Spirit which dwelled in him and the same Spirit that dwells in us is perfection. His body was prepared for it.
I believe the influence of the Holy Spirit can inspire the human mind, but I don't believe He literally resides inside us. That sounds too much like possession, which is Satanic.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe the influence of the Holy Spirit can inspire the human mind, but I don't believe He literally resides inside us. That sounds too much like possession, which is Satanic.


Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Ephesian 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
I believe the influence of the Holy Spirit can inspire the human mind, but I don't believe He literally resides inside us. That sounds too much like possession, which is Satanic.
Maybe we are the ones possessing ourselves with a false ego and identity living out an illusion.Maybe God is the only thing that is true in us.
 

Athan

Member
Romans 8:9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

Romans 8:11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.

Ephesian 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Romans 8:9 does not say that the Spirit of God literally resides within us. It's figuratively. Evil spirits do the literal residing.
 
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Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Romans 8:9 does not say that the Spirit of God literally resides within us. It's figuratively. Evil spirits do the literal residing.
Actually its not even your own faith you live by and can take credit for according to scriptures.
Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
 

Athan

Member
Maybe we are the ones possessing ourselves with a false ego and identity living out an illusion.Maybe God is the only thing that is true in us.
I think people often delude themselves. That's why it's important to turn to God. He's the only one who can keep us grounded and show us our real worth.
 
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Athan

Member
Actually its not even your own faith you live by and can take credit for according to scriptures.
Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Actually it's both. Christ has zero influence over us if we don't exercise faith.
 

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
God I think people often delude themselves. That's why it's important to turn to God. He's the only one who can keep us grounded and show us our real worth.
Were almost on the same page. I believe without God people always delude themselves.;)
 
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