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Holes in the trinity

F

FranklinMichaelV.3

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
I am careful with pronouns. People here are not careful with pronouns.

Your question sounds like every warning by every prophet is for the prophet. How so?
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Nope.

People will teach about Gods wrath in order to explain why bad things are happening to them.

If something bad happens to you, then you feel you must have done something wrong...so people take the idea of wrath, attribute it to God and say that God is wrathful.
 
savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
FranklinMichaelV.3 said:
Nope.

People will teach about Gods wrath in order to explain why bad things are happening to them.

If something bad happens to you, then you feel you must have done something wrong...so people take the idea of wrath, attribute it to God and say that God is wrathful.
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Yes. That is different than what you said in post 404.

I heard you say the teaching about God's wrath is so people will get themselves in line doing the things they believe will make the god less wrathful.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Walkntune said:
Both of us are correct as its a two edged sword.There are two sides to God.God is perfect love. The very same love in its purest perfect form that joins a man and a woman.Its the strongest bond holding existance together. This is why the Bible says what God has joined together let no man put assunder. To not walk in love is to walk in the law of sin and death. To walk in the law s of sin and death is to be carnally minded which is why it is death. You can either serve the right side of the Father where Jesus sits which is grace and love or you can serve the Left side of the Father which is his wrathful side which is the laws of sin and death. We all serve one side or the other.
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What do you think "Law of sin and death" even means in the first place and what do you think it means to walk in it, and how does that apply to what Jesus taught? As far as I'm concerned, you only know how to fling words and concepts that you don't quite even understand, let alone attach properly to appropriate meanings. To NOT obey the Law of Moses is to walk in Sin and Death, that's the more simple and direct application. So no, we are not both right. Just me.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
The true Gospel is not to warn people of a Christ who is coming but to reveal the love of a Christ who came!
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Walkntune said:
The true Gospel is not to warn people of a Christ who is coming but to reveal the love of a Christ who came!
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So you can totally ignore the part where Jesus warns of false Christs and false prophets, I see.

Well, as long as you understand the "Love of a christ who came" involves a LOT of details and explanations of how to live the Law of God according to his explanations and teachings, then we can agree there. Otherwise, your argument is about snipping out 99% of what he actually says to do.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
Shermana said:
What do you think "Law of sin and death" even means in the first place and what do you think it means to walk in it, and how does that apply to what Jesus taught? As far as I'm concerned, you only know how to fling words and concepts that you don't quite even understand, let alone attach properly to appropriate meanings. To NOT obey the Law of Moses is to walk in Sin and Death, that's the more simple and direct application. So no, we are not both right. Just me.
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I ask what do you think love means? Love does not seek its own. Jesus did not save us to be servants under demand but God sent his son because he loved us
1 Corinthians 13.
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.
4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

In the end there is only perfect Love and all else is done away with. God is love.
 
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kjw47

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Walkntune said:
The true Gospel is not to warn people of a Christ who is coming but to reveal the love of a Christ who came!
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Gods word is a two edged sword. Good teachings and not so good teachings for some. Most look at Harmageddon as bad news--But in reality is the only solution for mankinds woes--the coming of Gods kingdom rule to all creation forever. Jesus must come and rid Gods earth of wickedness first( Harmageddon) it will be proved once and for all time that God was right mortals only need to know good.God was 100% correct--he always is.--then healing begins and the resurrection.
 
Walkntune

Walkntune

Well-Known Member
savagewind said:
Is this sarcasm?

Dualism at it's finest is found at Matthew 25:31-46 :)
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That is the right hand and left of the father. Exactly what i said. Notice that it is acts of love and not acts of law on the right hand .
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
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savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus must come and rid Gods earth of wickedness first
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Psalm 115:16 The heavens -- the heavens are Jehovah's, And the earth He has given to the children of humankind
 
Y

yokomodoful

Member
Shermana said:
Angels would not be equally our creator if they are simply doing the work they are assigned. Besides, the use of the plural verb "Let us" clearly indicates that it's more than one being involved, and not just different "persons" of the same "being". So yes, it was in fact the Angels doing the creating, the "Sons of god", as the Jewish Midrash agrees. But they were simply doing the busy work. They would have no power or ability with THE god at the helm directing and providing the source material and energy. At what point do you think the Angels were created exactly?

The ancient Logos concept is that the Personification of Wisdom, the firstborn Created Being, the Chief of the Angels, served as the Vehicle of which all things were made. Proverbs 8 is not just abstract Metaphor.

The Epistle of Barnabas was written before any trace of the concept of the Trinity or Modalism, so it clearly indicates that they went by this Logos Theology.

Most traditional Trinitarian scholars are urging their audiences to not use Genesis 1:26 as a proof text these days.
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I see no evidence that God was speaking to the angels. True Creation is God's work only, not busy work for the angels.

Barnabas clearly said the Father was speaking to the son. Your explaination is not as likely as taking him at his word.

No comment on Psalm 110, David said My Lord said to My Lord?
 
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Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
yokomodoful said:
I see no evidence that God was speaking to the angels. True Creation is God's work only, not busy work for the angels.

Barnabas clearly said the Father was speaking to the son. Your explaination is not as likely as taking him at his word.

No comment on Psalm 110, David said My Lord said to My Lord?
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I see no evidence that God was talking to some "person" of Himself in Genesis 1:26. I ask you again, when were the Angels created. Was God not talking to the Angels when he said of Adam "They shall be like one of us"? It doesn't really matter if you see no evidence in this case, because there's no evidence of any kind of Trinitarian concept in early Judaism, so the only plausible explanation taking grammatical accuracy into account is referring to the "Council of gods", the Angels. There's a reason why most Trinitarian scholars are absolutely urging their audiences to stop using Genesis 1:26 as a proof text. It makes them look bad.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/Gen1_26.html
http://www.torahofmessiah.com/elohim.html

First off, the Epistle of Barnabas was most likely not written by Barnabas. I don't think even the Catholic Church thinks it is, let alone any scholar whatsoever. Second off, I don't see how my explanation of him talking to his son being the Logos remotely is not "taking him at his word".

Psalm 110 is YHWH talking to his "lord". As you know, the word "lord" when it's not a direct substitution for the tetragrammaton, applies to kings, fathers, husbands, etc. Thus, it is the Father (The LORD) speaking to the Logos (My lord, lower case), who is the "king of kings", yet the Father, as it says in Sirach, is the "king of king of kings".

Hope that helps.
 
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savagewind

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus Christ make it perfectly obvious Humankind and Heavenkind are made to be united for the purpose of God's will be done. That is what "in our image" means. At the time of the saying of it there need not have been anyone but ONE saying it. Was God not saying it TO the created thing. I think so. It is about purpose, not design. The purpose is to be united in the spirit. Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep yourselves united in the Spirit, binding yourselves together with peace. That is the Our Image. We can accomplish nothing alone. We are designed to cooperate. The OUR. The design of cooperation is called the Our Image.
 
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