Holy Land and the Jews

[CynthiaCypher]

Quagmire is a prophet!

"**MOD POST**

This topic has the potential of getting charged rather quickly, so we ask to be mindful of the rules and if you can't play nice or find yourself to be civil, step back for a second and come back. Please keep it civil."

 

[Poisonshady313]

A couple of options:

• Non-fiction:
  A History of Israel: From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time ​
• Fiction:
  Lemon Tree: An Arab, a Jew, and the Heart of the Middle East ​

Read them (or at least the first one) and let me know what you think.

Will do.

Meanwhile, read this (won't take very long)

The Truth About the Palestinian Refugees - Part 2

And tell me if you think it's just one-sided misinformation, or if what's written is an honest account of what happened.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Why are you lying to us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aabraham ben Azar
Where and when did I say that large group of Jews not "Middle Eastern" ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aabraham ben Azar
I think 90% of present Jews are not Semitics or Isaacs or Children of Israel ( Israelites)
Why are you lying to us?
Yes 90% 0f them not descendants of Abraham .let me explain it to you :
1)- Descendants of Abraham means they are real and true children of Abraham from his own offspring ( not adopted or salved or converted Jews ).
2)-Descendants Middle Eastern Jews are not Abrahamic /not Bnei Yesshaq /not Semitic / not Bnei Yesrael , they are descendants of Ancient Egyptians,Berbers,Slaved Africans,Kurdish,Persians,Greeks,Turkic and other nations.
Please don't mix up between Bnei Avraham and Goyim converted Jews.( God blessed descendants of Abraham only )

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Will do.

Meanwhile, read this (won't take very long)

The Truth About the Palestinian Refugees - Part 2

And tell me if you think it's just one-sided misinformation, or if what's written is an honest account of what happened.

I think there is much truth in the article. I also think think that there is much truth to be found here, and I would caution that anything labelled The Truth About ... is more than likely to be propaganda.

Let me suggest this:

I am at work and do not have access to the Sachar text. Let me review what he writes about Haifa and you do the same. When you've had a chance to do so. Let's you and me start a one-on-one focused (at least initially) on Haifa. You can contact me as soon as you've either purchased the book or gotten it from the library.​

What do you think?

At least one of the seminal problems with the Israel/Palestinian argument is that both sides have well polished narratives that serve primarilly to demonize the 'Other,' and it becomes increasingly difficult to extricate history from propaganda. I'm certainly no expert at the process, but the first step is to be aware that such a process is necessary. And, just to be clear, I say this as an ardent Zionist.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I think there is much truth in the article. I also think think that there is much truth to be found here,

I agree.

and I would caution that anything labelled The Truth About ... is more than likely to be propaganda.

I prefer not to make any assumptions or jump to any conclusions based on a title or the name of an author. The information inside either checks out, or it doesn't.

Let me suggest this:

I am at work and do not have access to the Sachar text. Let me review what he writes about Haifa and you do the same. When you've had a chance to do so. Let's you and me start a one-on-one focused (at least initially) on Haifa. You can contact me as soon as you've either purchased the book or gotten it from the library.​

What do you think?

Sounds good. I won't be able to get on this right away, but when I have the book and get a chance to read it, I'll let you know.

At least one of the seminal problems with the Israel/Palestinian argument is that both sides have well polished narratives that serve primarilly to demonize the 'Other,' and it becomes increasingly difficult to extricate history from propaganda.

That's a problem common to just about any argument on any subject. And it's not just about some people using facts and some people using fiction... but about how two different people can use the same facts in very different ways.

The best thing to do is to ask questions... ask for clarifications. Perhaps your understanding of an event is different than someone else's. Doesn't make that someone else an idiot. Maybe there's a reason they understand it differently. It might be a good reason. It might be a bad reason. Either way, it's not unreasonable to give a person a chance to explain themselves.

 

[Levite]

Yes 90% 0f them not descendants of Abraham .let me explain it to you :
1)- Descendants of Abraham means they are real and true children of Abraham from his own offspring ( not adopted or salved or converted Jews ).
2)-Descendants Middle Eastern Jews are not Abrahamic /not Bnei Yesshaq /not Semitic / not Bnei Yesrael , they are descendants of Ancient Egyptians,Berbers,Slaved Africans,Kurdish,Persians,Greeks,Turkic and other nations.
Please don't mix up between Bnei Avraham and Goyim converted Jews.( God blessed descendants of Abraham only )

Nonsense and claptrap. This anti-Semitism is starting to get out of hand. And stop using or misusing little bits of Hebrew, as though you spoke it, or as though you had some kind of right Jewish text and language.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Nonsense and claptrap. This anti-Semitism is starting to get out of hand. And stop using or misusing little bits of Hebrew, as though you spoke it, or as though you had some kind of right Jewish text and language.

Please Please Please leave this term anti-Semitism away and don't use it as it's nonesense , Do you know why ? ...because I am a real & true Semitic "Yeshmaeli" Arab ( I can not be anti-Myself) even I consider myself a Hebrew ,Do you know why ? ..because my forefather Abuna Ebrahim/Avraham Avinu was a Hebrew .So all his descendants are Hebrews.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Please Please Please leave this term anti-Semitism away and don't use it as it's nonesense , Do you know why ? ...because I am a real & true Semitic "Yeshmaeli" Arab ( I can not be anti-Myself) even I consider myself a Hebrew ,Do you know why ? ..because my forefather Abuna Ebrahim/Avraham Avinu was a Hebrew .So all his descendants are Hebrews.

Being anti-semitic has nothing to do with Semites in general, and very specifically refers to hatred of Jews.

While the term's etymology might suggest that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic peoples, the term was coined in the late 19th century in Germany as a more scientific-sounding term for Judenhass ("Jew-hatred"), and that has been its normal use since then.

Wikipedia

 

[Levite]

Please Please Please leave this term anti-Semitism away and don't use it as it's nonesense , Do you know why ? ...because I am a real & true Semitic "Yeshmaeli" Arab ( I can not be anti-Myself) even I consider myself a Hebrew ,Do you know why ? ..because my forefather Abuna Ebrahim/Avraham Avinu was a Hebrew .So all his descendants are Hebrews.

You're not a Hebrew. You're an Arab, which is different. And you are an anti-Semite.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

You're not a Hebrew. You're an Arab, which is different. And you are an anti-Semite.

I am not anti-Myself , I am a descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham cousin of Isaac's descendants ( Bnei Yesshaq & Yesrael ) . God/Allah/Allaha/Elohim blessed us and the holy land belongs to us , All non-Abrahamic / Arabised or converted Jews to get out of our forefather's land ,they cannot stay in the land without our permission / Visa.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Being anti-semitic has nothing to do with Semites in general, and very specifically refers to hatred of Jews.


Wikipedia

I have some questions : Do you consider Kurdish or Indian Jews as Semitics and descendants of Abraham from his own offspring ( ZR3 )??
Are Khazar and Berber Jews cousins of descendants of Esau ?
( please try to answer my question without using that ugly term anti-Semitic)

 

[Poisonshady313]

I have some questions : Do you consider Kurdish or Indian Jews as Semitics and descendants of Abraham from his own offspring ( ZR3 )??
Are Khazar and Berber Jews cousins of descendants of Esau ?
( please try to answer my question without using that ugly term anti-Semitic)

Whether you accept it or not, those who convert into the covenant are a part of it every bit as much as someone who is born into it.

So, your question is meaningless.

 

[Harmonious]

I am not anti-Myself , I am a descendant of Ishmael son of Abraham cousin of Isaac's descendants ( Bnei Yesshaq & Yesrael ) .

Prove it.

It seems so important to you that Jews prove our heritage. I want to see you attempt to prove yours.

 

[Levite]

Prove it.

It seems so important to you that Jews prove our heritage. I want to see you attempt to prove yours.

Seriously! Since he's so sure that he's right and everyone else is wrong, he must surely have a thoroughly-documented genealogy precisely tracking his personal descent from Abraham. I am sure the historical, anthropological, and archaeological communities would be fascinated to see such documentation, since no one else on earth has even been able to provide conclusive documentation of descent for even two thousand years, let alone three and a half thousand or more.

 

[gnostic]

I have some questions : Do you consider Kurdish or Indian Jews as Semitics and descendants of Abraham from his own offspring ( ZR3 )??
Are Khazar and Berber Jews cousins of descendants of Esau ?
( please try to answer my question without using that ugly term anti-Semitic)

Not once, were Ishmael or Ishmaelites mentioned in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy. Not even the Book of Joshua. Each time, the land of Canaan being mention as a covenant, it was always in connection with the descendants of Abraham-Isaac-and-Jacob, hence to the Israelites-Jews, not Abraham-Ishmael (hence not to the Ishmaelites), and not to the Edomites (Esau's descendants).

The land was not meant for every descendants of Abraham. That is what it say in the Torah or the OT Bible. Whether any of these biblical figures existed, is a different question. Whether God existed or not, is also another question. Whether the covenant about the promised land existed between God and the Israelite is...you guess it, another question.

Your OP was quite specific about the Jews and the (holy) land. You wanted sources, several of us had provided the sources, but you're still not satisfied.

Whether the modern Israeli-Jews or Palestinians deserved that land, is a whole different question, and I don't care to debate it. Quite frankly I sick of both sides, and as far as I am concern both sides are at fault, as well as the Arab neighbors (Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians). It is bloody mess, and there is no perfect solution to it.

Like or not, what those scriptures say, you have simply ignored. No where in the Torah does it say Canaan belonged to the Ishmaelites, Arabs or Muslims, hence your question is answered.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Prove it.

It seems so important to you that Jews prove our heritage. I want to see you attempt to prove yours.

For your information I am cousin of Bnei Yesrael and not the converted Jews ( I hope it's clear now ).

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

Not once, were Ishmael or Ishmaelites mentioned in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers or Deuteronomy. Not even the Book of Joshua. Each time, the land of Canaan being mention as a covenant, it was always in connection with the descendants of Abraham-Isaac-and-Jacob, hence to the Israelites-Jews, not Abraham-Ishmael (hence not to the Ishmaelites), and not to the Edomites (Esau's descendants).

The land was not meant for every descendants of Abraham. That is what it say in the Torah or the OT Bible. Whether any of these biblical figures existed, is a different question. Whether God existed or not, is also another question. Whether the covenant about the promised land existed between God and the Israelite is...you guess it, another question.

Your OP was quite specific about the Jews and the (holy) land. You wanted sources, several of us had provided the sources, but you're still not satisfied.

Whether the modern Israeli-Jews or Palestinians deserved that land, is a whole different question, and I don't care to debate it. Quite frankly I sick of both sides, and as far as I am concern both sides are at fault, as well as the Arab neighbors (Syrians, Jordanians, Egyptians). It is bloody mess, and there is no perfect solution to it.

Like or not, what those scriptures say, you have simply ignored. No where in the Torah does it say Canaan belonged to the Ishmaelites, Arabs or Muslims, hence your question is answered.

and not to the Edomites (Esau's descendants).
Are you sure ????

If you are interested to know the fact and search for the true history of our father Abraham in Palestine read my New Thread : Family of Abraham ( Arabs and Isaacs lived in the holy land in peace and love since 4000 years )

 

[Flankerl]

For your information I am cousin of Bnei Yesrael and not the converted Jews ( I hope it's clear now ).

For your information iam cousin of the cookie monster and not Big Bird. (I hope its clear now)

 

[gnostic]

and not to the Edomites (Esau's descendants).
Are you sure ????

If you are interested to know the fact and search for the true history of our father Abraham in Palestine read my New Thread : Family of Abraham ( Arabs and Isaacs lived in the holy land in peace and love since 4000 years )

I know the genealogy of Abraham. But knowing the genealogy is not enough. You have to actually read the texts and understand them. (Clearly, you don't do that.)

If you have REALLY read the Genesis about Jacob and Esau, then you would know. You haven't, have you?

Did you read anywhere where God had a covenant with Esau? If you read Jacob and Esau, Esau already had move outside of Canaan, when Jacob returned from Harran with his family.

What you SERIOUSLY FAILED TO UNDERSTAND is who had covenant with god and who didn't. Ishmael didn't. Isaac's other half-brothers didn't. Lot didn't. Esau didn't.

 

[Aabraham ben Azar]

For your information iam cousin of the cookie monster and not Big Bird. (I hope its clear now)

:ignore: