Homo-sexuality.

[maggie2]

Question: Any reason why you'd wanna frequent this board if you're beliefs are as they are? I mean, perhaps you're looking for something here to make more sense to you?
Or you could just be interested in what others believe just for some general knowledge??

If you read the banner for this site it says, "Discuss, compare and debate". That is why many of us are here. We are open-minded enough to know that we can learn something from someone else with different views than we hold. We want to and do discuss and compare our thoughts and views and many of us grow from this practice.

Personally, I have learned much from being here on this forum and I plan to continue doing so. It is when we come here with closed minds, thinking that we have the one true answer and know exactly what God wants that we learn nothing and contribute little. Fortunately, there aren't many like that here.

 

[godfree1]

To answer the OP, I have no religion, but as a whole I love gay guys...they give me less competition for the girls I chase.

[emphasis mine] Touché, Faint!

 

[godfree1]

If you read the banner for this site it says, "Discuss, compare and debate". That is why many of us are here. We are open-minded enough to know that we can learn something from someone else with different views than we hold. We want to and do discuss and compare our thoughts and views and many of us grow from this practice.

Personally, I have learned much from being here on this forum and I plan to continue doing so. It is when we come here with closed minds, thinking that we have the one true answer and know exactly what God wants that we learn nothing and contribute little. Fortunately, there aren't many like that here.

Beautifully said, maggie2!

 

[DTrent]

kudos to god free, I couldn't have put it better myself (Although I'm not gay I like everyone:s). What exactly is the christian view on bi-sexuality, is this as bad? Even though I do like women? Will the father forgive me for defying him? Will I be consumed in his fiery wrath? Please your views on this x

Peace x

As the Scriptures I quoted above state, we can see that bi would = homo= not approved of by God. We were created (as was stated in this thread) for men to be with women within the marital arrangement.
Yes, you can be forgiven by asking for forgiveness, rejecting that type of lifestyle and associating only with those who also reject it. Otherwise it's all too easy to fall into it again; the same as with smoking, lying, gambling, drunkeness, etc.
As for 'fiery wrath'? Not to worry - that's not literal. Fire in the Bible often depicts 'eternal destruction'.

 

[godfree1]

As the Scriptures I quoted above state, we can see that bi would = homo= not approved of by God.

Disapproval of my homosexuality comes entirely from heterosexual people who are, for the most part, Christians (whatever that means) here in America. As long as I'm left alone to eke out my homosexual existence in peace, I don't frankly care what god-believers of any brand approve of. (Gods don't exist to approve or disapprove of anything.)

We were created (as was stated in this thread) for men to be with women within the marital arrangement.

I was created (as I stated in this thread) during the brief purse of time when my two Christian heterosexual parents were sexually attracted to each other enough to breed me into existence shortly before their nasty divorce. I won't go into the details, for everyone's sake. (What were you saying again about "marital arrangement"?)

Yes, you can be forgiven by asking for forgiveness, rejecting that type of lifestyle and associating only with those who also reject it.

I don't want or need the forgiveness of the Christian, particularly since I've done nothing requiring forgiveness, especially and thankfully since I'm not Christian myself. If I don't share your religion, you can be certain that I don't share your morals.

Otherwise it's all too easy to fall into it again; the same as with smoking, lying, gambling, drunkeness, etc.

That's funny. One of the biggest smoking, lying, gambling, drunken people I've ever known was my very own heterosexual father! The only thing we should dare compare homosexuality to is that from which it comes: heterosexuality, and I like to think I'm living proof.

As for 'fiery wrath'? Not to worry - that's not literal.

The Christian bible will forever be an interpretive conundrum for all Christians, which is probably why we'll never find two Christians believing the same way about Christianity. That's mildly interesting, I suppose. (Okay, no it's not.)

Fire in the Bible often depicts 'eternal destruction'.

What kind of temper-tantrum-throwing "intelligent" "designer" eternally destroys what it has created? How intelligent is that?

 

[NuGnostic]

As the Scriptures I quoted above state, we can see that bi would = homo= not approved of by God. We were created (as was stated in this thread) for men to be with women within the marital arrangement.
.

You have to remember that there are many passages in the bible that also refer to Gods tolerance and love for all mankind,in the new testament the only views on homosexuality come not from Jesus's words,but form his followers in the epsitles,in my view this certainly does not make them God's word.

As Shakespeare said The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

 

[NuGnostic]

I checked above and indeed DTrent all those verses you cited where from the Epistles,you have to remember although St.Paul and his followers where good men,they were not Jesus ,so sholud be taken as if they always carry his(and God's.) authority.Furthermore they were Jews who traditionally where against homosexuallity,travelling in Graeco-Roman lands where it was often praticed without hiding it(not literally.),this they would have found appalling.
I'm not saying Jesus allowed homosexuality just he does not even mention it

----------------------
To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell. -Marquis De Sade

 

[DTrent]

You have to remember that there are many passages in the bible that also refer to Gods tolerance and love for all mankind,in the new testament the only views on homosexuality come not from Jesus's words,but form his followers in the epsitles,in my view this certainly does not make them God's word.

As Shakespeare said The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.

If we picked and chose to believe only the Scriptures that speak of "God's tolerance and love for all mankind", we would not be getting 'THE WHOLE ENCHILADA', as it were. We must also take into consideration His views on things we may not particularly like or agree with. That's where respect and humility come in.

2Tim.3:16,17 says that "ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial".
It doesn't just single out Jesus' own words or his Father's own words. If their words were the only ones we needed to heed, we wouldn't need the rest of the Bible and those words to Timothy would be redundant as would the rest of the Bible. :banghead3

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"
Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me. Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are. But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God. He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

Peace -

 

[godfree1]

I mean, come on:

He was never married.
He always hung around with twelve of his best buddies.
He never even had a girlfriend.

Who really knows exactly what went on in their tents during those long, hot, lonely, sweaty desert nights together?

:biglaugh:

 

[gnomon]

If we picked and chose to believe only the Scriptures that speak of "God's tolerance and love for all mankind", we would not be getting 'THE WHOLE ENCHILADA', as it were. We must also take into consideration His views on things we may not particularly like or agree with. That's where respect and humility come in.

2Tim.3:16,17 says that "ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial".
It doesn't just single out Jesus' own words or his Father's own words. If their words were the only ones we needed to heed, we wouldn't need the rest of the Bible and those words to Timothy would be redundant as would the rest of the Bible. :banghead3

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"
Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me. Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are. But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God. He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

Peace -

Please do not equate sexuality with stealing.

Anyway, the bible states that God created them male and female. Well, not everyone in this world is born, definitely, male and female. There does appear to be a spectrum. It's not a long, logical step to understand that human sexuality is influenced by biological factors before a human is born.

 

[godfree1]

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi?

Wait a minute. Do you seriously remember exactly when it was that you chose to be heterosexual? Give me a break.

I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people.

I don't think homosexuals generally care how homophobes "see" heterosexually bred homosexuality.

I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"

One could say that, but then one would be making the mistake of myopically comparing sexual orientation or preference to stealing, which would be nothing short of ridiculous, since we would then have to compare all forms of sexuality to stealing, the one having nothing to do with the other. Like I stated before, homosexuality is best compared to its hapless, reluctant and embarrassed parent: heterosexuality, and neither, of course, should be compared to stealing. Homosexuals aren't looking for blame or acceptance; we're looking for equality--and if this country is really America, like I've heard, we're bound to eventually find it.

Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me.

God-belief doesn't "wash" with me. What difference will that ever make to either of us?

Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are.

Wish you away? I'm painfully aware that half of this country feels "the same way" you do about who and what I am. What's going to change? Homophobes can bet their bottom dollars that I'm not going to stop being homosexual, and it's even more important for them to remember that I wouldn't if I could. I love being homosexual, in spite of what many heterosexuals seem determined to put me through because of that love. Some people can't stand it when they perceive others to be happier than they are. (Who on Earth is infringing upon anyone's right to be straight?)

But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God.

I don't accept god-belief, either. Does that stop you from believing in one?

He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

I'm not understanding how the meaning of complete and utter silence can be twisted to mean anything else but that.

Peace -

Do you really mean what you say, too?

 

[godfree1]

Please do not equate sexuality with stealing.

Thank you!

Anyway, the bible states that God created them male and female. Well, not everyone in this world is born, definitely, male and female.

How quickly some of us would like to forget about true hermaphrodites!

There does appear to be a spectrum. It's not a long, logical step to understand that human sexuality is influenced by biological factors before a human is born.

Alas, that step is very long for too many of us.

 

[maggie2]

If we picked and chose to believe only the Scriptures that speak of "God's tolerance and love for all mankind", we would not be getting 'THE WHOLE ENCHILADA', as it were. We must also take into consideration His views on things we may not particularly like or agree with. That's where respect and humility come in.

Well, D Trent, I think we need to clarify that these are YOUR INTERPRETATIONS of what God says and nothing more or less. Additionally, I don't see much respect and humility in what you say in the paragraph quoted below.

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"

Wnat a sorry excuse for a comparrison..to compare homosexuality or bi-sexuality to stealing is really stretching it. How about this comparrison: I happen to have blue eyes. Not much I can do about that unless I decide to wear colored contact lenses. I happen to be left-handed. Not much I can do about that unless I decide to write so that no one can read what I write. You appear to be heterosexual. Did you decide to be that way? Did you choose to be heterosexual? If so when did you deliberately decide that? Homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE it is how a person is born. Please don't compare homosexuals or bi-sexuals to thieves. That is unkind and counter-productive.

Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me.

You know, D. Trent, I don't think you speak for God. In fact, I'm pretty darn sure you do not. Speak for yourself.

Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are. But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God.

You are quite right, you do not have to accept anything and I don't think anyone expects you to. However, again I must say, you do not speak for God and you do not know what God accepts or does not accept.

He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

You interpret what you think God says...but you, just like me and everyone else on this forum do not know what God says...we can only interpret what we think and read and hear through the prism of our own thoughts and values.

 

[Fluffy]

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"
Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me. Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are. But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God. He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

Wrong. They have an "excuse" because their actions harm no one.

 

[NuGnostic]

If we picked and chose to believe only the Scriptures that speak of "God's tolerance and love for all mankind", we would not be getting 'THE WHOLE ENCHILADA', as it were. We must also take into consideration His views on things we may not particularly like or agree with. That's where respect and humility come in.

2Tim.3:16,17 says that "ALL Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial".
It doesn't just single out Jesus' own words or his Father's own words. If their words were the only ones we needed to heed, we wouldn't need the rest of the Bible and those words to Timothy would be redundant as would the rest of the Bible. :banghead3

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"
Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me. Wish me away but there are millions who see it the same way and we all have that right just as those who are not 'straight' have the right to be the way they are. But that does not mean I HAVE to accept it becuz I don't and neither does God. He says what He means and He means what He says and it cannot be twisted to mean anything else...

Peace -

I no this may not be the exact right place but I wish to share some facts and opinions with Dtrent and all Christians.Firstly there was much scripture that was not included in the bible for various reasons,the current bible was only constructed in the 4th century.
Secondly even the four "Canon" Gopsels should(in my view) be taken with a pinch of salt,scholars generally agree they were not written by apostles or even ppl that knew Jesus.So really in my opinion no one line should be taken as irrevocable truth,really u have to read observe the general theme as well as read between the lines and you'll find a message of tolerance,love and forgiveness.
Also again it is only my personal opinion,but the views of St.Paul are no more Sacrosant than St.Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas,his views were the foundation of Orthodox believe therefore they included by later church Prelates in the Bible they constructed.
Peace

 

[Green Gaia]

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people.

Yes, I made the choice to become a member of the world's most unpopular minority...I LOVE having my rights denied and getting yelled and threatened with bodily harm at strangers! A person no more "chooses" to be gay then they choose whether to be right or left handed.:sarcastic

I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"

Please don't equate my sexuality with stealing.

Sorry, that doesn't wash with God or with me.

So you claim speak for God?

 

[pdoel]

As for some believing they were "born" homosexual or bi? I see that as an excuse as do soooooooooo many other people. I could say, "I steal becuz it's in my genes to steal! So don't blame ME!! ACCEPT ME!!!! It's who I am!!"

There was a time when the majority of the planet thought the world was flat. There was a time when the majority of the planet thought the universe revolved around Earth. There was a time when everyone thought there were hundreds of Gods controlling everything that happened in the world, and that they needed to be given sacrifices so that the sun would come up the next day.

Many people can believe it's a choice. While you think people who use the idea that homosexuality is not a choice as an excuse. I see the opposite. I KNOW that homosexuality is not a choice. I spent YEARS trying to deny that I was gay. I spent YEARS praying to God, asking to please make me heterosexual. I finally realized that God hadn't answered my prayers because I was who he intended me to be. I see people who live their lives judging others, telling people that we CHOOSE to be this way, using that as an excuse to hate. There are many hate filled, ignorant, intolerant people in this world, and they simply use that as an excuse to live that way.

If homosexuality is a choice, then tell me if it would be possible for you to wake up tomorrow morning and say, "Today, I'm going to be attracted to men." Then, after a day of that, wake up the next day and say, "Hmm, that was nice, but today, I think I'll be attracted to women."

If you cannot do that, there's your proof that homosexuality is not a choice. If you can, then I'll owe you an apology.

 

[Mike182]

I spent YEARS praying to God, asking to please make me heterosexual.

after years of that prayer, i started praying God to help me deal with the guilt other placed upon me for my apparant choice, and things took a turn for the better

 

[pdoel]

after years of that prayer, i started praying God to help me deal with the guilt other placed upon me for my apparant choice, and things took a turn for the better

Yup. Once I realized I was exactly the person God wanted me to be, my whole life changed.

 

[cardero]

GOD says that homosexuality is unnatural but goes on to explain that even though it is unnatural, this does not mean it is uncommon or immoral. It is not an issue that GOD takes offense with.