Homo-sexuality.

[Quiddity]

Yes, I made the choice to become a member of the world's most unpopular minority...I LOVE having my rights denied and getting yelled and threatened with bodily harm at strangers! A person no more "chooses" to be gay then they choose whether to be right or left handed.

Ok Maize. I'm beggining to think I'm misunderstanding this. So I'm going to try to clarify things to make sure I'm understanding properly. When you say a person does not choose to be gay. Do you apply this tothe entirety of a persons life? Or is that statement only talking about birth/early stages of life?

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

~Victor

 

[DTrent]

Please do not equate sexuality with stealing.

Anyway, the bible states that God created them male and female. Well, not everyone in this world is born, definitely, male and female. There does appear to be a spectrum. It's not a long, logical step to understand that human sexuality is influenced by biological factors before a human is born.

I didn't equate sexuality with stealing but God does. 1Cor.6:9-11 mentions "...fornicators...men kept for un-natural purposes, men who lie with men, THIEVES, ..."
When such things are "lumped together", they are viewed the same - disapproved of by God here in this particular example.

I understand about some children being born with both sexual organs and that the parents/doctors have to make a decision on what to 'keep' and what to 'dispose of'. That's another example of IMPERFECTION becuz we were NOT meant to be born with both sets of organs the same as we were NOT meant to be born blind or feeble, etc. How do we know? Gen. chapters 1 & 2 tell us that God's creation was deemed "good".
And we can look at the majority of kids who are born with one or the other & not both.

Hopefully you see now what I'm saying. I am not trying to be 'argumentative'. I try to enlighten. If there are some who don't appreciate that, ok. I have no problem moving on...:jam:

 

[DTrent]

Well, D Trent, I think we need to clarify that these are YOUR INTERPRETATIONS of what God says and nothing more or less. Additionally, I don't see much respect and humility in what you say in the paragraph quoted below.

Wnat a sorry excuse for a comparrison..to compare homosexuality or bi-sexuality to stealing is really stretching it. How about this comparrison: I happen to have blue eyes. Not much I can do about that unless I decide to wear colored contact lenses. I happen to be left-handed. Not much I can do about that unless I decide to write so that no one can read what I write. You appear to be heterosexual. Did you decide to be that way? Did you choose to be heterosexual? If so when did you deliberately decide that? Homosexuality is NOT A CHOICE it is how a person is born. Please don't compare homosexuals or bi-sexuals to thieves. That is unkind and counter-productive.

You know, D. Trent, I don't think you speak for God. In fact, I'm pretty darn sure you do not. Speak for yourself. You are quite right, you do not have to accept anything and I don't think anyone expects you to. However, again I must say, you do not speak for God and you do not know what God accepts or does not accept. You interpret what you think God says...but you, just like me and everyone else on this forum do not know what God says...we can only interpret what we think and read and hear through the prism of our own thoughts and values.

I don't see how these can be MY interpretations of what God says. I didn't write it. They are not MY views but God's. I just happen to agree with them. Some people will and some won't. - To each his own.

"Respect & humility" in MY posts?? Now why would THAT be thrown at me? I'm sorry you took it in a way that offended you.
As in the post above this one, please see 1Cor.6:9-11 where homosexuality is 'lumped together' with THIEVES along with some other things God does not approve of. They're viewed the same when written in that way. NO, I DID NOT MAKE UP THAT RULE.

If I did not "speak for God", as you said, then how could I be a Christian??
Christians are SUPPOSED TO "speak for God", explain what He says, etc. It's who we represent.

I find that alot of homosexuals are not Bible readers or believers.
Do you think that could be true becuz of what the Bible plainly says about that particular lifestyle?

 

[Green Gaia]

Ok Maize. I'm beggining to think I'm misunderstanding this. So I'm going to try to clarify things to make sure I'm understanding properly. When you say a person does not choose to be gay. Do you apply this tothe entirety of a persons life? Or is that statement only talking about birth/early stages of life?

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

~Victor

A person does not just wake up one day and decide, "oh I think I'll be gay now, where's my rainbow flag?" It doesn't work that way. If you're trying to get me to say that I don't know why people are gay, fine, I don't know. I've stated that MANY times before. I don't know how or why - I just am. And I get really sick of people telling me what I should feel and how I should be and how I should act and that they know me better than I know myself.

And yes, you can choose to suppress your sexuality. Does that mean everyone should do it?

 

[Green Gaia]

I find that alot of homosexuals are not Bible readers or believers.
Do you think that could be true becuz of what the Bible plainly says about that particular lifestyle?

And there are many gay and lesbian Christians whom you just completely dismissed who have reconciled their faith and their sexuality.

 

[DTrent]

Wrong. They have an "excuse" because their actions harm no one.

How is it that their actions harm "no one"?

 

[DTrent]

I no this may not be the exact right place but I wish to share some facts and opinions with Dtrent and all Christians.Firstly there was much scripture that was not included in the bible for various reasons,the current bible was only constructed in the 4th century.
Secondly even the four "Canon" Gopsels should(in my view) be taken with a pinch of salt,scholars generally agree they were not written by apostles or even ppl that knew Jesus.So really in my opinion no one line should be taken as irrevocable truth,really u have to read observe the general theme as well as read between the lines and you'll find a message of tolerance,love and forgiveness.
Also again it is only my personal opinion,but the views of St.Paul are no more Sacrosant than St.Augustine or St Thomas Aquinas,his views were the foundation of Orthodox believe therefore they included by later church Prelates in the Bible they constructed.
Peace

It's a really good thing that knowledge and opinions can be...adjusted.

 

[Green Gaia]

How is it that their actions harm "no one"?

Ok I'll bite... who am I harming simply by being gay?

 

[DTrent]

Yes, I made the choice to become a member of the world's most unpopular minority...I LOVE having my rights denied and getting yelled and threatened with bodily harm at strangers! A person no more "chooses" to be gay then they choose whether to be right or left handed.:sarcastic
Please don't equate my sexuality with stealing.
So you claim speak for God?

Your 1st comment above? I guess I could say the same about an inter-racial marriage.
But with that, none of God's laws or principles are broken. There's a difference.

Sexuality & stealing - pls see previous comments re:that with Scripture.

Speaking for God? - pls see previous -------

 

[Quiddity]

A person does not just wake up one day and decide, "oh I think I'll be gay now, where's my rainbow flag?" It doesn't work that way. If you're trying to get me to say that I don't know why people are gay, fine, I don't know. I've stated that MANY times before. I don't know how or why - I just am. And I get really sick of people telling me what I should feel and how I should be and how I should act and that they know me better than I know myself.

And yes, you can choose to suppress your sexuality. Does that mean everyone should do it?

Wousers, that went south quick. I honestly was just asking because I can't completely relate. So when I hear that people don't choose to be gay. It most always makes me think that not only can homosexuals not suppress it, but they can't completely flip it around and change their sexuality. That's just what pops to mind and how many people I've talked to in person take it. Just thought it would be more accurate to say "I can't change what I am. And even if I could, I don't wanna." It's an individual thing, that shouldn't be extended as a generality in my opinion.

But to answer your question my answer is yes.

~Victor

 

[DTrent]

And there are many gay and lesbian Christians whom you just completely dismissed who have reconciled their faith and their sexuality.

That may be so but according to the Bible, is their worship acceptable to God while living that particular lifestyle?

 

[Green Gaia]

Your 1st comment above? I guess I could say the same about an inter-racial marriage.
But with that, none of God's laws or principles are broken. There's a difference.

Well here is the difference - I AM NOT A MEMBER OF YOUR RELIGION. So tell me why I should be expected to follow the laws of your religion/god?

 

[Green Gaia]

Wousers, that went south quick. I honestly was just asking because I can't completely relate.

I'm sorry. I am very angry about this issue today given what is going on my state. It is very personal and I am mad. I apologize for taking it out on you.

But to answer your question my answer is yes.

Would you make straight people suppress their sexuality too or just gay people?

 

[DTrent]

"I can't change what I am. And even if I could, I don't wanna."
~Victor

THERE IT IS!! "I DON'T WANNA"!
Then there are some who DO wanna change but don't know what to do to change.
Those are the people that people like ME would like to talk to.
Not looking for people who are happy with their faith or lifestyle. Looking for people who are NOT.

 

[michel]

Ok Maize. I'm beggining to think I'm misunderstanding this. So I'm going to try to clarify things to make sure I'm understanding properly. When you say a person does not choose to be gay. Do you apply this tothe entirety of a persons life? Or is that statement only talking about birth/early stages of life?

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

~Victor

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

You know my stance on this, Victor, and I need really not confirm that I have no problems whatsoever with Homosexuals or bisexuals. In fact, I feel for them in the fact that they still have to fight for recognition of their rights, and also the abuse to which they are subjected.

Well, I am no expert on the subject, but I would immediately say that he was a 'real' homosexual, and he chose to deny his sexuality, as Catholic priests do. I need not tell you about those who choose to wear hair shirts, as a sign of their devotion.

I admire your friend for what he is doing - it is obviously right for him. I can only hope, for his sake, that the pressure of having to deny his innate sexuality does not distress him.

 

[Green Gaia]

That may be so but according to the Bible, is their worship acceptable to God while living that particular lifestyle?

Depends on how you read the Bible isn't it?

 

[DTrent]

Well here is the difference - I AM NOT A MEMBER OF YOUR RELIGION. So tell me why I should be expected to follow the laws of your religion/god?

If a Unitarian Universalist does not follow the Bible as a Guide to Christian life then no.
I would NOT expect you to follow the laws of it.
And so, I guess we're done.

Thanks for the interchange...

- Peace.

 

[Quiddity]

I'm sorry. I am very angry about this issue today given what is going on my state. It is very personal and I am mad. I apologize for taking it out on you.

It's cool. I wasn't offended. I'm aware of your passion toward this topic.

Would you make straight people suppress their sexuality too or just gay people?

Neither I or anybody should make anybody do something they don't want to. But my intention and belief would be to only help those that are gay.

 

[Green Gaia]

THERE IT IS!! "I DON'T WANNA"!
Then there are some who DO wanna change but don't know what to do to change.
Those are the people that people like ME would like to talk to.
Not looking for people who are happy with their faith or lifestyle. Looking for people who are NOT.

Do you want to change your sexuality? I would say not. So who do you think you are telling gay people that they should change when you don't want to either?!Why should I have to change to make other people happy or more comfortable? Tell, why?

 

[Green Gaia]

If a Unitarian Universalist does not follow the Bible as a Guide to Christian life then no.
I would NOT expect you to follow the laws of it.
.

But yet, when it comes to this issue, BGLT people are expected to follow the rule of your religion (i.e. not be gay) or they are discriminated against and denied equal rights.

Shalom. I need a drink.