Homo-sexuality.

[Quiddity]

You know my stance on this, Victor, and I need really not confirm that I have no problems whatsoever with Homosexuals or bisexuals. In fact, I feel for them in the fact that they still have to fight for recognition of their rights, and also the abuse to which they are subjected.

Well, I am no expert on the subject, but I would immediately say that he was a 'real' homosexual, and he chose to deny his sexuality, as Catholic priests do. I need not tell you about those who choose to wear hair shirts, as a sign of their devotion.

I admire your friend for what he is doing - it is obviously right for him. I can only hope, for his sake, that the pressure of having to deny his innate sexuality does not distress him.

I can't only sympathize and not empathize Michel. I don't wish distress on him and anybody else who is going through a similar situation. I can only imagine.

 

[Ðanisty]

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

I would consider him brainwashed.

I understand about some children being born with both sexual organs and that the parents/doctors have to make a decision on what to 'keep' and what to 'dispose of'.

Whoah, wait just one moment. Parents and doctors do not have to make a decision on what to keep! It sickens me that any parent or doctor would mutilate a child in such a way. It has in the past been very common to do so, but the practice is really unethical and some parents now are thankfully not making such decisions but allowing their children to grow up with what "God" gave them. It is totally and completely inhumane to mutilate a child's genitals. In almost all cases it causes at least a partial loss of sensation and functionality...sometimes a complete loss of sensation. I've seen countless interviews with people who had such procedures performed on them when they were infants or small children. All of them are suffering from sexual dysfunction, depression, and loads of other medical problems. None of them were happy about and they wished it had never been done to them.

While we're talking about this, here's part of a definition from the Intersex Society of North America:

“Intersex” is a general term used for a variety of conditions in which a person is born with a reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical definitions of female or male. For example, a person might be born appearing to be female on the outside, but having mostly male-typical anatomy on the inside. Or a person may be born with genitals that seem to be in-between the usual male and female types—for example, a girl may be born with a noticeably large clitoris, or lacking a vaginal opening, or a boy may be born with a notably small penis, or with a scrotum that is divided so that it has formed more like labia. Or a person may be born with mosaic genetics, so that some of her cells have XX chromosomes and some of them have XY.

And here is a link to the statistics of how often it occurs: How Common Is Intersex? You may be surprised.

How is it that their actions harm "no one"?

How is it that their actions harm anyone? I'd like some examples on how homosexuals and bisexuals harm people.

 

[sojourner]

I don't see how these can be MY interpretations of what God says. I didn't write it. They are not MY views but God's. I just happen to agree with them. Some people will and some won't. - To each his own.

"Respect & humility" in MY posts?? Now why would THAT be thrown at me? I'm sorry you took it in a way that offended you.
As in the post above this one, please see 1Cor.6:9-11 where homosexuality is 'lumped together' with THIEVES along with some other things God does not approve of. They're viewed the same when written in that way. NO, I DID NOT MAKE UP THAT RULE.

If I did not "speak for God", as you said, then how could I be a Christian??
Christians are SUPPOSED TO "speak for God", explain what He says, etc. It's who we represent.

I find that alot of homosexuals are not Bible readers or believers.
Do you think that could be true becuz of what the Bible plainly says about that particular lifestyle?

I think that many homosexuals have been ignored, put down, judged, chased off, and beaten over the head with unscholastic, literalistic interpretations of the Bible by Christians who either a) despise them, or b) "love them enough to tell them their sins, so they can go to heaven." These poor people have enough to deal with in society. Why must we always and continuously throw ICor. 6:9 in their faces?

The problem here is that too many people think they "know" what the Bible "says." What's written on the page is not necessarily the meaning that should be extracted from it. In Paul's culture, men embodied honor. Women embodied shame. It was considered shameful for a man to "take it like a woman." It's a cultural admonishment, not a moral admonishment. The Bible is anything but "plain" on the matter of homosexuality. In fact, Jesus never mentions homosexuals or homosexual activity.

Maybe we should concentrate on loving people where they are, rather than attempting to correct their "bad habits."

What a person has to say about Biblical meaning is always that person's interpretation. Before condemning statements are made on behalf of the Almighty, a thorough, in-depth study of scripture is indicated.

One of worst things a Christian can do is condemn another person, especially when it's justified by "being said in love." Judgment is best left to God. Take care of your own "sins" and let others deal with theirs...hey! Didn't Jesus say that?

Being Christian includes loving your neighbor, not speaking for God. The only people that should speak for God are the prophets.

 

[Quiddity]

I would consider him brainwashed.

Because he has the strength to make a choice. You call that brainwashing? :biglaugh:
You must have a different dictionary then me.

 

[Mike182]

i think it would be naive to think that people can not change, i think that human sexuality by its very nature is constantly changing

but some of us have tried to change, and ended up in a very bad situation. i know i did *shudders at memories*

 

[Ðanisty]

Because he has the strength to make a choice. You call that brainwashing? :biglaugh:
You must have a different dictionary then me.

I certainly think the chances of him being brainwashed are stronger than the chances of him having made a conscious, willing, and informed decision to change who he is.

 

[Atheist_Dave]

wow i go away for a day and all hell breaks loose! I'm glad everyone is getting into it. I agree with most people in that I never had a choice to be gay (bi), but I wouldn't want to change for anything, I dont think I could change my feelings towards guys, just repress them, and that can't be healthy. Of course not being religious I have no reason to want to change but I can see how christians would be desparate to change themselves. I just want to ask, from a christian point of view, isn't it worse to deny your love of someone of the same sex than to accept it? You think god created us right? Then why can't he understand that love is not a choice, just as homo-sexuality isn't?

Peace x

 

[Quiddity]

I certainly think the chances of him being brainwashed are stronger than the chances of him having made a conscious, willing, and informed decision to change who he is.

And how exactly do you know he didn't do that?

 

[gnomon]

I didn't equate sexuality with stealing but God does. 1Cor.6:9-11 mentions "...fornicators...men kept for un-natural purposes, men who lie with men, THIEVES, ..."
When such things are "lumped together", they are viewed the same - disapproved of by God here in this particular example.

I understand about some children being born with both sexual organs and that the parents/doctors have to make a decision on what to 'keep' and what to 'dispose of'. That's another example of IMPERFECTION becuz we were NOT meant to be born with both sets of organs the same as we were NOT meant to be born blind or feeble, etc. How do we know? Gen. chapters 1 & 2 tell us that God's creation was deemed "good".
And we can look at the majority of kids who are born with one or the other & not both.

Hopefully you see now what I'm saying. I am not trying to be 'argumentative'. I try to enlighten. If there are some who don't appreciate that, ok. I have no problem moving on...:jam:

No, you are misrepresenting. The mere fact that you mention that parents and doctors have to pick and choose the genitalia show that you do not know about intersexed people. Or the various other differentiations to human development.

The existence of intersex individuals destroys any concept of a God who created human beings as male or femal and they must abide by certain laws. The notion that God creates human beings male/female and must abide by the rules of gender does not logically apply. If people are born a certain way, in which all notion of free will is removed from them yet violates God's law, then a contradiction exists in God's law.

Genesis makes no mention of mosaicism, down syndrome, spinal bifida or basically any such development differentiation of the human body. You pulled this idea out of thin air. How in any way can you apply the first two chapters of genesis towards prenatal development. Where does it state that human beings were not meant to be born blind? It doesn't. Anywhere.

 

[Divine Androgyne]

Please do not equate sexuality with stealing.

Anyway, the bible states that God created them male and female. Well, not everyone in this world is born, definitely, male and female. There does appear to be a spectrum. It's not a long, logical step to understand that human sexuality is influenced by biological factors before a human is born.

Right, no matter what gender I have sex with I'm a homosexual.

 

[fromthe heart]

No, you are misrepresenting. The mere fact that you mention that parents and doctors have to pick and choose the genitalia show that you do not know about intersexed people. Or the various other differentiations to human development.

The existence of intersex individuals destroys any concept of a God who created human beings as male or femal and they must abide by certain laws. The notion that God creates human beings male/female and must abide by the rules of gender does not logically apply. If people are born a certain way, in which all notion of free will is removed from them yet violates God's law, then a contradiction exists in God's law.

Genesis makes no mention of mosaicism, down syndrome, spinal bifida or basically any such development differentiation of the human body. You pulled this idea out of thin air. How in any way can you apply the first two chapters of genesis towards prenatal development. Where does it state that human beings were not meant to be born blind? It doesn't. Anywhere.

They weren't meant to be born blind thus Jesus healed the Blind and those afflicted with various different ailments whether born with them or came down with them...there is a place in the Bible where it does refer to those born both sexes...I just can't remember just where at present...There isn't anything we deal with now that isn't discussed somewhere in the bible...There was never any mention that I know of where Jesus specifically was said to have healed a homosexual...there are verses many believe to be said that it's sinful to BE homosexual and that it IS living in sin and an abomination unto the Lord...but we can't just look at that and say well you are sinful and therefore I can't love you for who you are...Jesus said to love everybody...I think He said that we were to do that despite what WE may believe.

 

[Ðanisty]

And how exactly do you know he didn't do that?

I don't, but you asked for opinions. I can only give my opinion on what I think is likely.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't, but you asked for opinions. I can only give my opinion on what I think is likely.

No I did not. You posted a bogus and inflammatory post by saying he was "brainwashed" based on nothing. Such are your tactics...sigh..

 

[Ðanisty]

Cause as I have mentioned before that a good friend of mine did indeed choose not to be gay. Would you consider him not to be a real homosexual because he had the strength to choose?

~Victor

You asked the question.

 

[godfree1]

If homosexuality is a choice, then tell me if it would be possible for you to wake up tomorrow morning and say, "Today, I'm going to be attracted to men." Then, after a day of that, wake up the next day and say, "Hmm, that was nice, but today, I think I'll be attracted to women."

If you cannot do that, there's your proof that homosexuality is not a choice. If you can, then I'll owe you an apology.

Succinctly put, pdoel. Consider that if homosexuality is a choice, wouldn't it logically follow that all sexuality is a choice? How preposterous is that?

:areyoucra

 

[godfree1]

THERE IT IS!! "I DON'T WANNA"!

There it is, and you “don’t wanna” understand it, apparently.

Then there are some who DO wanna change but don't know what to do to change.

That’s only because there are others who belligerently, arrogantly and presumptuously shove their morals, sexuality and religious beliefs down the throats of the unsuspecting homosexual child-victims they breed.

Those are the people that people like ME would like to talk to.

People like ME would like to know what people like you could possibly say to people like them. If you’ve got homophobic friends like that, who needs homophobic enemies?

Not looking for people who are happy with their faith or lifestyle.

I’m faith-free, and my sexual orientation isn’t a “lifestyle”. I’m thoroughly convinced that it has come down to me through the genetic material buried deep within the genes and chromosomes of the sex cells of my heterosexual Christian parents. (Read it and weep, breeders.) If sexual preference is a “lifestyle” or a “choice”, so is our eye, hair and/or skin color. If you’re looking to blame something for homosexuality, look no further than the sex cells of the parents of homosexuals.

Looking for people who are NOT.

The question is, do you think they’re looking for you? I’m looking for people, specifically short, hirsute men who are unhappy with and are looking to change their heterosexual lifestyle. Have I got any takers?

:biglaugh: :biglaugh: :biglaugh:​

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[michel]

i think it would be naive to think that people can not change, i think that human sexuality by its very nature is constantly changing

but some of us have tried to change, and ended up in a very bad situation. i know i did *shudders at memories*

I agree; there are people with a strong enough character to achieve what others haven't a hope of doing. Besides why should you change ?

I certainly think the chances of him being brainwashed are stronger than the chances of him having made a conscious, willing, and informed decision to change who he is.

Glad you know what is inside someone else's head; do you do a lot of mind reading ?

 

[Ðanisty]

Glad you know what is inside someone else's head; do you do a lot of mind reading ?

No, I just know a lot of gay people and happen to be bisexual myself. It's interesting how I'm saying the same thing as godfree1 though and apparently you guys only have problem with what I've said. Right back at ya.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

i personally find it to be useless, a sexuality for the gratification of deviants. completely disgusting.

 

[Mike182]

i personally find it to be useless, a sexuality for the gratification of deviants. completely disgusting.

then put quite simply, don't do it!

no one is making you have homosexual sex, but people are trying to break up homosexuals - from where im stood, you have no right to make any such complaint