Homosexual adoption - Abomination or not?

[Quiddity]

But you are concerned that he might have a damaging effect on a child if allowed to be a father?

In his case, yes...but it would be unfair to connect it to his homosexuality in this particular instance.

 

[Drolefille]

Catholic charities don't just adopt catholic children and hand them to catholic families; what are you talking about?

What I said is that gay couples (like in San Fran) do have other options. They don't HAVE TO go to a catholic one when there is one across the way that will allow it.

The issue just came down to taking tax dollars.

That's my point. It's not their job to police the beliefs of those in the home they place a child in, and refusing to place a child because the couple are of the same gender is discrimination. The protests of CC come off as insincere.

If the child is fostered through CC then they have no choice, some states allow CC to refer out, but that requires a child losing a case worker and a lot of other work. It's not fair to anyone involved.

If the CC wants tax dollars, they can earn them like everyone else. Government contracts have rules.

 

[Quiddity]

Victor, are you talking about this:

Lesbian & Gay Parenting: Theoretical & Conceptual Examinations Related to Lesbian & Gay Parenting
"As this summary will show, the results of existing research comparing lesbian and gay parents to heterosexual parents and children of lesbian and gay parents to children of heterosexual parents are quite clear: Common stereotypes are not supported by the data."

I'm not sure I can see how this helps your argument.

This one (in speaking about gay couples):

Early studies did generally focus on well-educated, middle class families, but more recent research has included participants from a wider array of ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.....

They compared the best gay couples...

 

[Drolefille]

This one (in speaking about gay couples):

Early studies did generally focus on well-educated, middle class families, but more recent research has included participants from a wider array of ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.....

They compared the best gay couples...

Welcome to the history of psychology/sociology and its research. Most research these days is done on white middle to upper class college students... because they're free and available on college campuses.

Most early studies focused on white, educated, middle class families with any sort of diversity included only when it was the topic of the discussion. As if white were the norm, male were the norm, etc. Fundamental flaw in our body of research that is not unique to this study.

In short, it's about as accurate as any other study that is repeatable/verifiable.

 

[Quiddity]

That's my point. It's not their job to police the beliefs of those in the home they place a child in, and refusing to place a child because the couple are of the same gender is discrimination. The protests of CC come off as insincere.

If the child is fostered through CC then they have no choice, some states allow CC to refer out, but that requires a child losing a case worker and a lot of other work. It's not fair to anyone involved.

If the CC wants tax dollars, they can earn them like everyone else. Government contracts have rules.

That's why I said earlier that they are opting out. If gay couples are but a minority in adoption agencies, why not just stick with what you have? It's only going to affect the kids and they are fully aware that catholic agencies aren't going to just bend over and ignore what they value.

 

[Quiddity]

Welcome to the history of psychology/sociology and its research. Most research these days is done on white middle to upper class college students... because they're free and available on college campuses.

Most early studies focused on white, educated, middle class families with any sort of diversity included only when it was the topic of the discussion. As if white were the norm, male were the norm, etc. Fundamental flaw in our body of research that is not unique to this study.

In short, it's about as accurate as any other study that is repeatable/verifiable.

We aren't talking about the 1950's here.

 

[Drolefille]

That's why I said earlier that they are opting out. If gay couples are but a minority in adoption agencies, why not just stick with what you have? It's only going to affect the kids and they are fully aware that catholic agencies aren't going to just bend over and ignore what they value.

You kind of pulled this topic from no where as far as I saw, actually hence my confusion.

Then Catholic agencies can shut down. Yes, I mean it. They're interpreting their values in the most screwed up way possible, the way that forces it on others who don't share their beliefs, and therefore they can kiss their funding goodbye.

I'd say the same about any religious based agency that was discriminating in its expenditure of state/federal money. And ethically I'd say the same if they're really discriminating at all, but there's no legal force behind that.

 

[Alceste]

This one (in speaking about gay couples):

Early studies did generally focus on well-educated, middle class families, but more recent research has included participants from a wider array of ethnic and socioeconomic backgrounds.....

They compared the best gay couples...

Does the bold red emphasis added help clear up your understanding of the quoted text?

 

[Quiddity]

You kind of pulled this topic from no where as far as I saw, actually hence my confusion.

Then Catholic agencies can shut down. Yes, I mean it. They're interpreting their values in the most screwed up way possible, the way that forces it on others who don't share their beliefs, and therefore they can kiss their funding goodbye.

I'd say the same about any religious based agency that was discriminating in its expenditure of state/federal money. And ethically I'd say the same if they're really discriminating at all, but there's no legal force behind that.

It's fine that you disagree with me but you are sadly confused if you think the pushing was being done by the catholic agencies.

And how in the world are you going to tell catholics they are misinterpreting their own values? Are you an expert in catholic theology?

 

[nnmartin]

The more homogeneous the majority of kids are, the more the misfits stand out, and the greater any perceived differences will loom in their vicious little minds.

That is seriously rabid liberalism.

You are saying that kids being similar is a bad thing - there is no benefit in being different just for the sake of it.

Next you will be saying competitive sport is a bad thing as it discriminates against those who are no good at it.

Kids need to learn to celebrate diversity to function in a multi-cultural society.

Why should they have to do that?

Any immigrant coming into the country should have to assimilate to the local way of life - you got that the wrong way round.

I'm very happy to see the changes in my country. We've already won equal marriage rights for same sex couples. It's only a matter of time before we eradicate gender-based discrimination in the adoption process

So according to your logic, we will soon have jobs going for overweight middle aged men to be fashion models.

How about campaigning against that kind of discrimination?

 

[Quiddity]

Does the bold red emphasis added help clear up your understanding of the quoted text?

How does that change things exactly?

As I said, the best gay couples were being compared...

Where did I misrepresent?

 

[Drolefille]

It's fine that you disagree with me but you are sadly confused if you think the pushing was being done by the catholic agencies.

And how in the world are you going to tell catholics they are misinterpreting their own values? Are you an expert in catholic theology?

The law is not the same things as religion and requiring an organization to uphold all relevant non-discrimination standards is not equivalent to an organization wanting to enforce its moral standards on the non-Catholic population it serves with that money. So yes CC is pushing when they sue to keep a contract they cannot legally keep because they discriminate. This would be like allowing a church based charity to discriminate by race because of their beliefs while receiving state funding to feed the poor. Not acceptable.

I had 22 years of Catholic upbringing and 16 years of Catholic education while being an active and educated believer. I'm not a theologian, but I consider myself the equivalent of an educated and active Catholic believer and more so than many. The idea that the church would be in violation of its moral standards because it placed a child in the custody of a gay couple is ridiculous. The church doesn't police the morality of straight married couples by ensuring they attend church regularly, don't masturbate, or only use natural family planning. Only objecting when it comes down to discriminating against gays (and typically with abortion issues as well) is disingenuous, and a political move behalf of the American bishops. If CC valued their mission over the politics they'd continue to serve their clients.

 

[Drolefille]

How does that change things exactly?

As I said, the best gay couples were being compared...

Where did I misrepresent?

To the best heterosexual couples. Apples to apples.

And further research has gone BEYOND that.

 

[Alceste]

That is seriously rabid liberalism.

You are saying that kids being similar is a bad thing - there is no benefit in being different just for the sake of it.

Next you will be saying competitive sport is a bad thing as it discriminates against those who are no good at it.

What? Why not just read what I said instead of making something up and pretending I said it?

Why should they have to do that?

Any immigrant coming into the country should have to assimilate to the local way of life - you got that the wrong way round.

It's none of my business how other people choose to live their lives. Whether they choose to assimilate or maintain a strong cultural identity from wherever they come from. What difference does it make to me?

I like different languages, different kinds of music, different styles of dress. They make my world more interesting and colourful. Why would I want to live in a world where everyone dresses the same, looks the same, talks the same, shares the same values and ideology, follows the same life pattern as their parents and neighbours unthinkingly, like mindless automatons?

If you want to live like cattle, go ahead and live like cattle! Please do it! I celebrate your right to do so and am fascinated by your desire to be the same as everybody else. It's just part of the incredible, tapestry of human culture to me.

But don't expect me to want to live like cattle too, or to support your efforts to get the governments of the world to try to eliminate diversity. It's not my thing. I live in a country that values freedom. You have to have a reason to deny free choice to individuals, and the reason has to be damn good.

So according to your logic, we will soon have jobs going for overweight middle aged men to be fashion models.

How about campaigning against that kind of discrimination?

No need.

 

[839311]

It was wrong of you to post that. Wrong!

 

[9Westy9]

I've never discussed this issue so thought I would see what the general views were.

I am talking about homosexual adoption , ie: Two men or Two women as a couple legally adopting a young child.

As a general feeling I believe this to be wrong and should be banned for the good of the child.

Perhaps under certain scenarios it might be possible to a lesbian couple to adopt as women have naturally maternal instincts but I don't think two men would be appropriate.

I am not homophobic by the way.

any views or questions - please go ahead.

what arguments do you have for your case?

 

[Alceste]

It was wrong of you to post that. Wrong!

I think it's kind of sexy. Makes me want to put on this outfit.

 

[9Westy9]

I think it's kind of sexy. Makes me want to put on this outfit.

Now we're talking

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I think it's kind of sexy. Makes me want to put on this outfit.

My kind of objectifing. Let me know what convention you're wearing that at and I'll go get my tickets.

 

[Drolefille]

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