Homosexuality and religion

[Kerr]

I don't know about that, I've known some very discriminating homosexuals and I found them quite acceptable.

Lol, I think my sentence could have been constructed better . I of course meant discrimination of homosexuals (I take it you understand that, just saying it in case someone misunderstands).

 

[Breathe]

But Islam teaches to kill homosexuals and the prophet Mohammed cursed them therefore you don't just discriminate them but you kill them, which is even worse !

Why are you asking me about the practices or theology of Islam or Muslim cultural actions or traditions?

Regarding that, though; Qur'an Alone Muslims are divided on the issue. The Qur'an does not mention the punishment for homosexuality. There was the al-Fatihah foundation (now defunct) which existed for support, and in the UK there is 'Imaan', a Muslim Support group.

'Imaan' states, on the claims of Qur'anic verses offered that are claimed to be against homosexuality, the following:

Fahisha (7:80, 27:54) Lewdness, indecency, gross.
Khabaidh (21:74) Improper
Sayyi’aat (11:78) Evil

- Source: Imaan: Qur'an FAQ (pdf file)
​

It's enough for me to say that the holy Qur'an says homosexuals are criminals and even in the Islamic world homosexuality is intolerance. I remembered once when I watched a documentary about some Muslims and they were homosexuals from different countries they clearly love Islam and they pray five times a day just the regular practices in Islam but the only problem they face is about their sexuality. They had been tortured and were arrested, lashed and so on.

I oppose such things.

So what is that ? isn't discrimination ?

Yes, it is. And I oppose it.

here's another question leave homosexuality alone I personally don't believe in the existence of God. What do you call me ?

A non-theist. And I don't care if you don't believe.

just be honest and tell me I'm an infidel or a Mushrik, this is another discrimination simply the Muslim sees himself above the mankind just to say the truth about it

I'm sure some do. But, why would I call you a mushrik, and why would I, or you, care what others think?

and I had nothing against Islam or Muslims. I respect your beliefs and you're free to believe in whatever you want to believe in.

Um. Thanks.
But, I don't believe you. Sorry. Reason why I don't is because I stated something and you go off on a tangent about Islam, simply because I have Arabic in my title, or because you mistook Yogi Bhajan for a Muslim instead of a Sikh.

 

[Camatose]

Why are you asking me about the practices or theology of Islam or Muslim cultural actions or traditions?

Regarding that, though; Qur'an Alone Muslims are divided on the issue. The Qur'an does not mention the punishment for homosexuality. There was the al-Fatihah foundation (now defunct) which existed for support, and in the UK there is 'Imaan', a Muslim Support group.

'Imaan' states, on the claims of Qur'anic verses offered that are claimed to be against homosexuality, the following:

Fahisha (7:80, 27:54) Lewdness, indecency, gross.
Khabaidh (21:74) Improper
Sayyi’aat (11:78) Evil

- Source: Imaan: Qur'an FAQ (pdf file)
​

I oppose such things.


Yes, it is. And I oppose it.


A non-theist. And I don't care if you don't believe.


I'm sure some do. But, why would I call you a mushrik, and why would I, or you, care what others think?


Um. Thanks.
But, I don't believe you. Sorry. Reason why I don't is because I stated something and you go off on a tangent about Islam, simply because I have Arabic in my title, or because you mistook Yogi Bhajan for a Muslim instead of a Sikh.

You see things from a personal view and that's what I don't need. You said I oppose that but how about the holy Qur'an ? I'm not asking for a personal view.

I'm sure some do. But, why would I call you a mushrik, and why would I, or you, care what others think?

People who don't believe in Islam you call them infidels and those words mentioned so many times in Qur'an when you call somebody an infidel isn't rude ? well, I don't care if you have an intention to call me an infidel or anything else however, if these insults came from God here's another problem. Anyway, that's not what the topic about.

 

[Breathe]

You see things from a personal view and that's what I don't need. You said I oppose that but how about the holy Qur'an ? I'm not asking for a personal view.

I already gave a possible answer for the interpretations of the verses on homosexuality in the Qur'an within more liberal schools of Islamic thought.

Otherwise, what are you asking?

People who don't believe in Islam you call them infidels and those words mentioned so many times in Qur'an when you call somebody an infidel isn't rude ? well, I don't care if you have an intention to call me an infidel or anything else however, if these insults came from God here's another problem.

Why would I call 'people who don't believe in Islam' infidels? What does whether or not one accepts Islam or not have to do with me, or my own religious views?

Anyway, that's not what the topic about.

Your thread, your questions. I'm still not sure why you're asking me these questions. So I'll ask it more clearly: why are you asking me?

 

[Ingledsva]

Will they ?

Are you asking if they will discriminate?

Obviously some of them are, and will continue to do so.

They seem to think all people have to follow the laws of their religion.

*

 

[Ingledsva]

All the replies based on "opinions not facts"...

"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." |Leviticus 20:13|

"And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment." |Jude 7|

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality." |Corinthians 6:9|


What kind of divinity is that!, the lord doesn't have anything better to do than punishing people and counting their sins with all my respect to every religion to every individual who believes that. And about the last one I really don't understand why the homosexual guy will not inherit the kingdom of God ? just for loving someone with the same gender !

None of these verses have to be taken as referencing homosexuals.

For instance Lev 20:13 above. The words for man are two different words - and the second can mean commemorative. Also there is NO "as with a" in the sentence.

"And if a man lies down for commemorative sex with a woman, both have committed IDOLATRY. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

*

1 Corinthians 6:9 does not have the word homosexual in it. There are no ancient Greek texts using arsenokoites as homosexual. However it is found used with both men and women to mean rape.

1Co6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, not idolaters, not the overindulgent, not arsenokoites (rapists.)

*

Jude 4:7 also says nothing about homosexuals. Note that ordained. This is talking about Sacred Prostitution, which the Hebrew originally practiced. Note that they are specifically doing "lasciviousness" against YHVH. IDOLATRY. "Strange flesh" is used in several places in the OT to mean "foreign women," and Sacred Prostitutes."


Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


*

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Catholics believe that unjust discrimination against homosexuals is wrong. However, we do not believe that denying them the right to marry is wrong.

Not allowing them to marry IS unjust discrimination

 

[Camatose]

I already gave a possible answer for the interpretations of the verses on homosexuality in the Qur'an within more liberal schools of Islamic thought.

Otherwise, what are you asking?


Why would I call 'people who don't believe in Islam' infidels? What does whether or not one accepts Islam or not have to do with me, or my own religious views?


Your thread, your questions. I'm still not sure why you're asking me these questions. So I'll ask it more clearly: why are you asking me?

What I wanted from you to admit that, but you still show the lovely side of Islam even though you call anyone who doesn't believe in Islam an infidel. Why and how that's not the case. Muslims think their prayer isn't completed if they didn't curse non-Muslims. Why ? here's my proof
1:7 "The path of those upon whom You have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked [Your] anger or of those who are astray." don't forget I mentioned your prophet cursed the homosexual. Moreover, there's Surat Al-Kāfirūn if you don't call non-Muslims infidels but the holy Qur'an did !. And if you want to tell me that I don't understand the holy Qur'an, then you're mistaken.

 

[Camatose]

None of these verses have to be taken as referencing homosexuals.

For instance Lev 20:13 above. The words for man are two different words - and the second can mean commemorative. Also there is NO "as with a" in the sentence.

"And if a man lies down for commemorative sex with a woman, both have committed IDOLATRY. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense."

*

1 Corinthians 6:9 does not have the word homosexual in it. There are no ancient Greek texts using arsenokoites as homosexual. However it is found used with both men and women to mean rape.

1Co6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, not idolaters, not the overindulgent, not arsenokoites (rapists.)

*

Jude 4:7 also says nothing about homosexuals. Note that ordained. This is talking about Sacred Prostitution, which the Hebrew originally practiced. Note that they are specifically doing "lasciviousness" against YHVH. IDOLATRY. "Strange flesh" is used in several places in the OT to mean "foreign women," and Sacred Prostitutes."


Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


*

None of these verses have to be taken as referencing homosexuals.

You must be kidding. So homosexuality is not a sin ?.

 

[Ingledsva]

You must be kidding. So homosexuality is not a sin ?.

Not according to the Bible - however - that didn't stop later Jews and Christians from deciding it was wrong, and fudging verses to make it look like they say that.

*

 

[Breathe]

What I wanted from you to admit that, but you still show the lovely side of Islam even though you call anyone who doesn't believe in Islam an infidel.

No, I don't. Why would I call someone an infidel who isn't a Muslim? Calling people names never helps, and it's not my place to judge people.

Why and how that's not the case.

I don't know what that means.

And I still don't get why you're asking me about Islam. Again, why? Was it because I have Arabic in my title, or because I put up a quote from a Sikh and you know nothing about Sikhs, so you took them to be Muslim?

 

[Camatose]

Not according to the Bible - however - that didn't stop later Jews and Christians from deciding it was wrong, and fudging verses to make it look like they say that.

*

So please stop covering the obvious things by saying

none of these verses have to be taken as referencing homosexuals

.
I used to think like that but not anymore. While it's clearly about homosexuals there's no doubt except if you're blind.

 

[Camatose]

No, I don't. Why would I call someone an infidel who isn't a Muslim? Calling people names never helps, and it's not my place to judge people.


I don't know what that means.

And I still don't get why you're asking me about Islam. Again, why? Was it because I have Arabic in my title, or because I put up a quote from a Sikh and you know nothing about Sikhs, so you took them to be Muslim?

Anyway,off the topic. And I asked you about that because you have a verse from the holy Qur'an in your title. Whenever I ask you about Islam you don't answer me if you're not a Muslim why don't you just say I'm not a Muslim ?.

 

[Ingledsva]

So please stop covering the obvious things by saying .
I used to think like that but not anymore. While it's clearly about homosexuals there's no doubt except if you're blind.

LOL! It is what it is. The Bible does NOT condemn homosexuality - and Christians need to leave homosexuals alone.

*

 

[Breathe]

Anyway,off the topic. And I asked you about that because you have a verse from the holy Qur'an in your title.

Because I like the meaning. Afala ta'qilun - "Why don't you use your intellect?".
I quoted from a Sikh yogi, too, with "if you can't see God in all, you can't see God at all". That's not exactly a very Islamic philosophy. Well, excluding Sufi.

Whenever I ask you about Islam you don't answer me if you're not a Muslim why don't you just say I'm not a Muslim ?.

Don't see a need. You asked me a question, so I gave an answer to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Kerr]

So please stop covering the obvious things by saying .
I used to think like that but not anymore. While it's clearly about homosexuals there's no doubt except if you're blind.

Religion is more complex then that. There can exist many different interpretations of a verse, which this illustrates. Even if a minority interpret the verses in a non-homophobic way, its still a valid interpretation.

 

[sojourner]

Not allowing them to marry IS unjust discrimination

I believe it is, based upon the reason given. A call to marriage has more to do with the heart than with the chemical makeup of persons.

 

[sojourner]

You must be kidding. So homosexuality is not a sin ?.

No. How can a person's normal, healthy orientation be "sin?"

 

[sojourner]

I used to think like that but not anymore. While it's clearly about homosexuals there's no doubt except if you're blind.

"Clearly?"
What's clear is that the ancients had no concept for sexual orientation differences. Therefore, the texts cannot, by definition, be "about homosexuals."

 

[sojourner]

Religion is more complex then that. There can exist many different interpretations of a verse, which this illustrates. Even if a minority interpret the verses in a non-homophobic way, its still a valid interpretation.

So long as that interpretation is based in solid exegesis and criticism of the texts in question.