As It was not an answer to that, go back and see what it was an answer to. All the best CG, I am busy at work and need a cuppa, not an RF dose.
I noticed your error was liked, such is the justice of RF
Regards Tony
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Homosexuality and religious.
- Thread starter Spirit of Light
- Start date
As It was not an answer to that, go back and see what it was an answer to. All the best CG, I am busy at work and need a cuppa, not an RF dose.
I noticed your error was liked, such is the justice of RF
Regards Tony
If you read extensively the Baha’i writings on homosexuality you will find that it is abundantly clear in our writings that it is both immoral and abnormal.
As to God. People state in their profile their beliefs and also one becomes familiar with the views of individuals over time. And most of the opposition has come from those who either do not believe in God or His Messengers or both. So their arguments are already tainted by prejudices against religion in general. I believe man is a spiritual being and has the capacity to recognise God and His Messengers. It is an inbuilt capacity and potential within every human being from birth. Things like abstract thought and the sciences and the ability to know and worship God are abilities limited to human beings. Simple uneducated people can know God because it is an innate ability.
Their prejudices? Surely you meant their views.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
That was then. But now why wouldn't people want to know what a gay person is going through. Especially for people in a religion that claims it loves all people. Here's a link to another interview of a gay Baha'i. Have you seen this one?
LGBTQ Baha'i Experience Episode 3: Shoghi Aqdas Story
It is for the individual to decide whether they wish to overcome it and if not whether they wish to still remain a Baha’i or not. For myself I gave up drinking and gambling instantly but I know a Sikh who loved the Faith and regularly came to meetings said he loved his wine so did not feel it right to join as drinking is forbidden. Now that’s a reasonable person who respects Baha’is and their religion and is not doing what people here are doing, bullying and harassing Baha’is to change the law just so he can do what he wants. He respects that we have our laws and doesn’t join but doesn’t try and force us to allow the drinking of wine.
Excellent question. Why wouldn't a Baha'i want to know what a gay Baha'i went through? Beats me.
That was a sad watch, but it does give much more information on what happened in Uganda at that march.
Edited to add ... Here's #2 in the series. These are being done as we speak, very modern take. Perhaps the heartfelt nature of these stories will lead to change. Then again, perhaps not. Time will tell. prhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvJ5zX0Qeh8
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I get the feeling you don't know which verses "show" what you claim. Jesus is obvious, but is the NT story of Jesus' birth believable? How did the gospel writers get their information? And the two stories contradict each other. Credibility? 100% for some Christians, but not so much for others. Oh... and then the Quran says Mary gave birth to Jesus under a date palm. So, we have three contradictory stories. Plus, the whole virgin birth story is based on one verse taken out of context from Isaiah.
So, the best guy you've got to show that they were born "special" has an enormous about of problems with the accuracy of the story. Then who is a manifestation? All you have to say is yes or no that Adam and Noah are or aren't manifestations. Or even if you don't know then just say so. Anyway, one click and look what I found....
Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and Zoroaster were all named by Bahá’u’lláh as being among the establishers of religion, termed Manifestations of God, as well as himself, and his forerunner The Báb. Bahá’u’lláh also expressly or implicitly referred to Adam, Noah, Saleh, Húd, and an unnamed prophet of the Sabians as messengers of God.
I don't see any reason to believe Adam, Noah, Abraham or even Moses were "manifestations". If part of the definition is "establishers of religion", then all these people established Judaism? Or they were all part of the ongoing story about a people and their God?
And there's more...
The question of the equality of the Semitic and Asiatic prophets is addressed by Shoghi Effendi:
“ The only reason there is not more mention of the Asiatic prophets is because their names seem to be lost in the mists of ancient history. Buddha is mentioned and Zoroaster in our scriptures—both non-Jewish prophets or non-semitic prophets. We are taught there always have been Manifestations of God, but we do not have any record of their names.
So where is Krishna and the other incarnations of Vishnu? Did Baha'u'llah even mention him, let alone the other incarnations that came before him? Let me click again and see what comes up?“ The only reason there is not more mention of the Asiatic prophets is because their names seem to be lost in the mists of ancient history. Buddha is mentioned and Zoroaster in our scriptures—both non-Jewish prophets or non-semitic prophets. We are taught there always have been Manifestations of God, but we do not have any record of their names.
Your question concerning Brahma and Krishna: such matters, as no reference occurs to them in the Teachings, are left for students of history and religion to resolve and clarify. (From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi - 14 April 1941)
Anyway, Baha'is say a lot of stuff, but they can't back up their beliefs. But I know the proof is that the Baha'i writings say it, therefore it is true. And that's good enough for Baha'is. Again, religion without science can be nothing more than superstitious beliefs. At least that is one Baha'i teaching that most all of us can believe in.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
"bullying and harassing Baha’is to change the law"? Depends on which side of the argument you're on. Were the peace marches, equality protests by Blacks, woman and gays "bullying" or fighting for the same rights as other had? Oh, and even mostly white workers went on strike for better working conditions in U.S. factories and coal mines. One company hired security guards to shoot them. Another company had a guy drop bombs on miners as they walked to the town to protest their poor working conditions.
But... if it is true, and you say it is God's word so it can't get any truer than that, then we should all agree and tell homosexuals their behavior is not acceptable. They are not allowed to get married, and they can either seek help or stay celibate. But there is no place on God's green Earth where their behavior of having sex with each other is going to be allowed. It seems like that is what God wants and expects. Am I wrong?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
It goes back to the first videos you posted. One Baha'i said he didn't want to watch what some disgruntled Baha'is had to say. But what can we expect? To go against the teachings is reason enough to get a person shunned.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
And Baha'is give each other "likes" and "winners". And you agreed with Adrian when he said I had asked a stupid question. But is it those of us that questioning the Baha'i Faith, or the fault of Baha'is not being able to support their claims? Lot of the Atheists have pulled out of this thread. Is that what you wanted? Has anything been resolved? Has the "clash" of opposing ideas caused a "spark" of truth to emerge? All they ever asked for was objective evidence. Baha'is have said, "no there isn't." and other times said, "yes there is." Like with this thread. Baha'is say they "love" gays, but they believe the gay lifestyle is wrong and that God forbids it.As It was not an answer to that, go back and see what it was an answer to. All the best CG, I am busy at work and need a cuppa, not an RF dose.
I noticed your error was liked, such is the justice of RF
Regards Tony
Explain what you mean by shunned in the context of the law and the sanctions imposed.
Regards Tony
Well done you went with the error, and did not address the point CG, you quoted the wrong post, which made your comment null and void
Go back and see what was replied to, it had nothing to do with your liked post.
Plain and simple.
Regards Tony
Of course it is. If people don’t accept Baha’u’llah then that is their choice. The world has suffered two world wars because we believe they are ignoring Baha’u’llah’s teachings resulting in millions dead but are we going around accusing people of being complicit in mass murder because they don’t believe and follow Baha’u’llah? No, it’s their choice and if they insist on learning the hard way then most likely they’ll have a third war.
Sometimes it’s a bit of both.
For no factual reasons. That is why it is prejudice.
Bahai is a religion, not science. It offers no expertise or truth
Atheists are at least princiled in their rejection of religion and related concepts. It is rejected because religions can't offer adequest evidence that they are true and correct. To suggest a bias against non-belief is ironic since you certainly reject all other religions as well, except Bahai.
Science doesn't back you up on this. And of course you believe this because your religious belief depends on it. You offer no crdible evidence that any God exists, nor that Messengers are reliable and valid.
Really, prove it.
Let's unify as a planet of diverse nations against gays.
But seriously, I doubt anyone involved with how the two world wars stared had ever even heard of Bahai. And why would anyone think it would have made a difference? Do you think putin wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if he had heard of Baha'u'llah?
Good people aren't going to do evil things. And those who are willing to do evil can't be fixed by religion.
Just one important correction. Baha’is accept and believe in all the religions not just our own. We believe in Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.
In our weekly services we read from the Bhagavad-Gita, the Bible, Quran, Buddhist scriptures and Zend Avesta as well as Baha’i Writungs.
In the stone architecture of all our Houses of Worship are engraved all the religious symbols - the Buddhist Wheel, Christian Cross, Star of David, Zoroastrian symbol and Hindi Om as well as Baha’i symbol.
The problem with atheism is that until you’ve found God you will continue to believe He does not exist. Until then one blindly believes there is no God and demands evidence but God is perceived through the inner senses such as insight and understanding not the outward senses. And the Word of God has the power to instil the knowledge of God into a person because it has an invisible power called the Holy Spirit.
That is why so many billions have become changed when they read the Bible, Quran, Gita or Words of Baha’u’llah.
It's long been part of the Baha'i belief to grossly exaggerate the effect that Baha'u'llah either had or could have had over this planet. Martin Luther King, Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, and a ton of Nobel Peace prize winners have had far more effect.
I know you were just joking but never ever. Gays are very good people.
The teachings of Baha’u’llah have encircled the globe thousands of times but fallen on deaf ears mostly.
One of His teachings is if a king opposes another and arises with an army against him, all the world should unite and bring that government to its knees. But is the entire world rising against Putin? So he continues his aggression because of disunity. The same with Iran’s women. Where is world unity against Iran? And Myanmar is massacring it’s own people but Russia and China vetoed any UN action. So where is the world while war criminals massacre their own citizens?
So Baha’u’llah’s remedy will work but governments refuse to implement it so we could be headed for a third war in order to get that unity.
Be united, O kings of the earth, for thereby will the tempest of discord be stilled amongst you, and your peoples find rest, if ye be of them that comprehend. Should anyone among you take up arms against another, rise ye all against him, for this is naught but manifest justice. (Baha’u’llah)
I would think that the prejudice against gays through to the 1970s would not have been a negative thing. It is now, as global societies become more oen and tolerant to diversity and human rights. Vedanta is another fringe religion that tried to create unity but it hasn't gotten much traction either. The same with Urantia folks. Mormonism is a rare minor success story as a fringe religion. Maybe JWs too.