Homosexuality and religious.

[Sheldon]

People only read about the first point then condemn us but the first point is only a belief, point 2 is how we actually act on that belief which is that we are to be kind and loving.

It's absurd to denounce who someone is as immoral, then claim to be kind and loving to them.

 

[KWED]

Homosexuals are fed up with being mistreated. And as a Baha’i I am glad to protect any person who is being victimised because he is homosexual but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with homosexuality.

You really can't see it, can you?
Calling homosexuality things like evil, immoral, shameful aberration, unnatural, a handicap, to be purged from the world, requiring them to undergo illegal and unscientific conversion therapy, etc - is mistreating homosexuals!

Or do you think it has to involve physical violence?

 

[Sheldon]

Please don’t just read point one and accuse us of homophobia,

It is bigoted homophobia, and no one gets to tell others how they should view it. The second claim is irrelevant hypocrisy.

 

[KWED]

The scriptures themselves are not homophobic either,

They demonstrably are. They fit definitions of homophobia, and if it wasn't for religious privilege, may well fall foul of laws against hate speech. They certainly encourage illegal activity in many countries (conversion therapy).

 

[F1fan]

What an absurd contradiction.

Exactly. And given the blatant contradiction the believer doesn't seem able to reflect on this looks to those they are trying to convince.

Their prophet is seen as infallible, and that traps these believers, and renders them unable to reconcile the condemnation of gays, and the self's own morality that is superior this this attitude. Something is flawed in the theology, and as a consequence, the believer. What I find odd is why a believer thinkls they need to align themselves to a theology and/or religion at all. If they are capable of seeing a condemnation of gays as bad, then why are they part of that religion? What else is flawed in the theology if that huge issue is set in stone?

 

[KWED]

So homophobia could be a or b or c:
a. irrational fear of, or
b. aversion to, or
c. discrimination against homosexuality or gay people.

So you accept that the Bahai teachings on homosexuality are homophobic.

 

[Sheldon]

So homophobia could be a or b or c:
a. irrational fear of, or
b. aversion to, or
c. discrimination against homosexuality or gay people.

My point precisely.

 

[F1fan]

You really can't see it, can you?
Calling homosexuality things like evil, immoral, shameful aberration, unnatural, a handicap, to be purged from the world, requiring them to undergo illegal and unscientific conversion therapy, etc - is mistreating homosexuals!

Or do you think it has to involve physical violence?

Right. And the only solution is to abandon this teaching of Bahai completely, and acknowledge it was a mistake, or abandon the religion all together.

It's like those who admitted they voted for Trump but didn't vote for all his corruption. No, you get the whole package. You knew better. You ignored the corruption for reasons their consciousness is not aware of, or they lie about. There were many conservatives who voted for local republicans but no president. That was ethical, and rational.

 

[Trailblazer]

A person or distinctive group may be very nice, but that does not mean that it is from God.

That could apply to any group that claims to 'be from God', logically speaking.

 

[KWED]

He often says about our religion that he is trying to get us think critically, under a false assumption that we don't, or at least I don't think critically.

You clearly don't if you claim that the descriptions of homosexuality inBahai teachings do not amount to homophobia.

You should have tolerance for our beliefs.

Why?
I acknowledge your right to hold those beliefs, but I am utterly opposed to them.
Do you have tolerance for the beliefs of White Supremacists? What about ISIS?

My opinion is that your dislike for religion is based on the debased behavior that developed over time, which has nothing to do with the original teachings.

My dislike for religion is based on the content of religious texts - the homophobia in Bahai texts being a perfect example.
Just because beliefs are religious in nature doesn't make them necessarily acceptable.

 

[Trailblazer]

And the only solution is to abandon this teaching of Bahai completely, and acknowledge it was a mistake, or abandon the religion all together.

The other solution is to accept the teaching and realize it was not a mistake because it came from God, and an infallible God cannot make any mistakes.

 

[KWED]

Every child must have a mother and a father and to deprive it of either is in my view positively dangerous because both sexes are important not any one single sex.

So now you are calling same-sex parents "positively dangerous" for the children! You just can't help yourself, can you? You probably don't even realise you are doing it.

 

[KWED]

While I have no experience with being gay, I have had extensive experience with psychiatric disorders both personally and professionally as do many Baha'is I know.

One thing that has struck me since coming into contact with Bahais is how many suffer with some kind of psychological/emotional problems. I wonder if it is more prevalent than in other faiths. It certainly seems to be.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just because beliefs are religious in nature doesn't make them necessarily acceptable.

What makes a belief acceptable?
What people accept or reject is a personal decision based on their personal opinion.
Just because you don't accept a belief that does not mean it is not acceptable...
It is not acceptable to you and other people who think like you, but it is acceptable to others.

 

[KWED]

I'll send you my recipe for ratatouille, again not a metaphor...

Does it work without the aubergine?

 

[KWED]

Yes this guy Leroy is a moral monster who would rather keep children in the foster care system rather than simply killing these children

You've had plenty of opportunity elsewhere to fail to convince anyone with your fallacious "arguments" on abortion. This thread is about homophobia in religious belief.
However, I'm sure you are equally enlightened and rational on that issue.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What makes a belief acceptable?
What people accept or reject is a personal decision based on their personal opinion.
Just because you don't accept a belief that does not mean it is not acceptable...
It is not acceptable to you and other people who think like you, but it is acceptable to others.

Yeah, but that stops with you claim something about other humans. Your opinion is only valid for you as you, yet God says is valid for all humans.
There is more, but as longs as you don't recognize that what God says, is an opinion in effect and not a fact, then you will claim opinions and facts as they were the same.

 

[Trailblazer]

That perfectly describes you claim of 100% certainty that Bahaullah was the messenger of a god that might not even exist.

It is not obstinate or unreasonable attachment, it is faith, and faith can move mountains.

Matthew 17:20 And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

We have already established that Bahaism is prejudiced against homosexuality.

No, it is not prejudiced. It is based upon God's Reason and Knowledge of human nature, which trumps your reason and knowledge.

prejudice: preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
what is prejudice - Google Search

Yikes! Bet you wish you hadn't posted that now.

I'm glad I did, as usual because it gave me one more opportunity.

 

[KWED]

I've asked about this in the past and staff have confirmed that preaching atheism is also against the rules and subject to moderation. Please report the posts that you perceive as preaching.

How does one differentiate between an argument against the existence of god, and "preaching atheism"?

 

[Trailblazer]

Pretty much describes the religious approach to homosexuality.

The only bullying I see is coming from the nonreligious on this thread, trying to get the religious to see it "their way."
The religious are just responding to their posts.