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Homosexuality is not a sin!

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
By 'intelligent', I assume you mean views that agree with yours.

intelligent being, you recognize a person's right to equal rights, for no other reason than they are equal. not because you simply wish them to stop "banging on about it"

i ask again, how would you feel, if your gov discriminated against atheists? for no reason, than they simply found atheism "distasteful"? and while, you were struggling for your rights towards equality, someone said "i wish they'd just give those damn atheists their rights, so i dont have to hear them banging on about it all the time"? i mean, gee, whats so important about equal rights, when you already enjoy them yourself?
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
nope. but saying sexual orientation is a choice sure is. i didnt choose to be straight, did you? if so, at what age did you decide to be? im not sure ive ever met anyone who claimed to have "chosen" their sexual orientation, be it straight or gay. so if being straight isnt a choice, why would i, or any other thinking person assume that being gay is? so they can be told that their an abomination by people like you?

your silly religion can say whatever silly things it wants. but in a secular society, with a secular gov (i live in america, not aus btw) why should a religious belief be used to restrict the civil rights of the "vocal minority" as you put it. im sure if christian rights were being supressed, you'd probably be a "vocal minority" as well.

Ah, the constitutional right again, well I don’t remember when exactly I decided that I was to be straight but I am sure that it was when I had a look at my body and learnt that I am a male, that it fit a woman, that they are females and it went on from there, Christian are part of the secular society and when they are consulted they do their duty and express their opinions, this popular consultation are forced on us by a vocal minority, BTW I think that this is a mental condition that affect perception of the bodies functions, we know that is not hormonal or genetic so it is mental, men in woman bodies, men with a hormonal deficiency? Not likely.:areyoucra:D
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
Ah, the constitutional right again, well I don’t remember when exactly I decided that I was to be straight but I am sure that it was when I had a look at my body and learnt that I am a male, that it fit a woman, that they are females and it went on from there, Christian are part of the secular society and when they are consulted they do their duty and express their opinions, this popular consultation are forced on us by a vocal minority, BTW I think that this is a mental condition that affect perception of the bodies functions, we know that is not hormonal or genetic so it is mental, men in woman bodies, men with a hormonal deficiency? Not likely.:areyoucra:D

think being your beliefs are a mental condition, and beneath my contempt. i hope you never become a minority in your country, and have your rights infringed upon. lest you have to lower yourself to becoming a "vocal minority".
 

badger

Hwít éoredmæcg
i ask again, how would you feel, if your gov discriminated against atheists
There's not a lot in the UK, I'll admit, but I'm led to believe there's a significant amount in the US.
"Making fun of religion is as risky as burning a flag in an American Legion Hall."
Wendy Kaminer (Lawyer)
A Gallup poll taken in 1999 asked Americans whether they would vote for an otherwise well-qualified person who was a :-
Woman - 95% would
Roman Catholic - 94%
Jew - 92%
Black - 92%
Mormon - 79%
Homosexual - 79%
Atheist - 49%
I wonder how far a prospective candidate in any US election would get if he canvassed on an Atheist platform.
"banging on about it
As you are so obviously unhappy with that term, let's rename it 'raising your profile'. Actually, I think 'raising your profile' is your most effective weapon in your quest for equality.
BTW, if equality is granted because of your 'banging on about it', would you refuse it because it was granted for the wrong reasons?
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
.... spiritual death, a separation from the Church and God, in our time it is the same, if you are an unrepeated practicing gay person you will be ask to repent and change, to abstain from such acts, if you stubbornly disobey you are excommunicated.
So, which of these "sins" shall we legislate?
The Church has legislated in the whole lot of them! It is our right, isn’t it?
Kinda skirted the question....
Do you excommunicate someone who is relentlessly boastful?
Do you excommunicate someone who gossips?
Do you excommunicate someone who is shamelessly prideful?
Would you vote yes on a law to ban free speech? Thereby eliminating the "sins" of Malignity, Backbiting, Boasting, Gossiping and publicly Hating God?
Which of these "sins" shall we legislate?
I see you supporting the legislation of only one. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.
 

Alceste

Vagabond
I see this thread as an attempt to justify homosexuality, an attempt to Christians’ acceptance of it, elaborate as the arguments are it is clear that what scriptures condemn is gay sex and that Christianity demands repentance and abstinence from such behaviors as a condition to grant membership and fellowship, I don’t want to hurt anybody, I am just telling the truth, we believe that the inclination toward this behavior is not a sin but been a practicing homosexual leaves you out of the Christian Church, further we believe that if you don’t repent and change you are lost to God’s kingdom, we tell it to you: if you continue in your sin you wont be a member in our Church and won’t be in God’s kingdom either, if God does not have had Mercy on you and brings you to repentance you will be a reprobate in this life and a lost soul in the next. I got the feeling that most of these individuals opt for Atheism and that’s OK, but the attempt at justifying this with scripture and claiming that the scriptures have purposely been mistranslate to condemn homosexuals is a straw man, because as I said; the incline toward this unnatural behavior is not what we condemn. ;):)

Sweetie, I hate to break it to you but you and your posse of homophobic fundamentalist evangelicals don't own the Christian church. You don't have the authority to speak on behalf of the UU, United church, Catholics, Anglicans, Protestants, etc. You and your church are a tiny minority (although noisy beyond your numbers) and are quite out of sync with mainstream Christianity.

Mainstream Christians, if they oppose same sex marriage (and there is no guarantee), oppose it because they believe the union of male and female is sacred, not because - like you and your church - they think homosexuals are all evil, unrepentant sinners choosing lives that are offensive to god, who will burn forever in hell.

Because of that, most Christian churches have come to terms with the reality of homosexuality. Some are marrying gay couples in church, some have openly gay ministers, some have a tradition like confession so that homosexuals can give celibacy their best shot but be forgiven when they fail. (Pretty much inevitable, since almost everybody who has a sex drive to begin with fails at celibacy.) So you, my dear, are the anomaly. You're the vocal minority shoving your beliefs down everybody else's throat.

So what if your church doesn't want homosexuals? They'll just go to the UU church up the street, where nobody wants people like you.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
You are sadly misinformed about this country’s laws, if gay people adopt children they are entitled to all the benefits that the general population is, if one of them becomes unemployed they are entitled to social security payments, medicare, cared pensions low income subsidies, child support, single parent allowances etc, etc. They have accepted that their union should not be call a marriage and accepted Civil Unions instead and that the problem that that gay activism has, they cannot cry discrimination, marriage is the term that Christianity coined and is particular to them.
Australia currently has civil unions in the Australian Capital Territory, Tasmania and Victoria.
New South Wales
There is no civil union scheme in New South Wales, however, the City of Sydney provides a relationship register available to all residents of the state.
The City of Sydney Relationships Declaration Program recognises both same-sex and opposite-sex relationships. Although registration does not confer legal rights in the way a marriage does, it allows couples to make a written declaration that they are mutually committed to sharing their lives together. Couples have the option of holding a ceremony to celebrate their declaration.
Australian Capital Territory
The Civil Partnership Act 2008 commenced on 19 May 2008.
There are four options for entering an ACT civil union:
1. Deputy Registrar-General witnesses statutory declaration, endorses and registers application (Counter - no bookings required)
2. Deputy Registrar-General endorses and registers application (Statutory declaration witnessed by other qualified person) (Counter -no bookings required)
3. Deputy Registrar-General conducts commitment ceremony, witnesses statutory declaration, endorses and registers application (Pre-ceremony interview required - Booking required)
4. Deputy Registrar-General attends commitment ceremony, but only endorses and registers application (Booking required)
http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/civilunions.htm
So DL just go a head register yours.

Australia


Status of same-sex unions in Australia. Same-sex marriage or civil union Domestic partnership registry Domestic partnership agreement Domestic partnership being debated Defined statewide as "De facto" State same-sex marriage ban


Main articles: Recognition of same-sex unions in Australia, LGBT rights in Australia, and Domestic partnership in Tasmania
Since 13 August, 2004 (after assent) under the Marriage Amendment Act 2004 (Commonwealth law) which amended the Marriage Act 1961, the Australian Government has banned same-sex marriages from being performed or recognised here and overseas at a Commonwealth level [9].
All levels of Australian Governments under nearly all Australian statutes do recognise same-sex couples as de facto couples as unregistered co-habitation or de facto status since 2009 [10]. From 1 July 2009 Centrelink will recognise same-sex couples equally regarding social security - under the common-law marriage, de facto status or unregistered cohabitation [11].


Civil union - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

averageJOE

zombie
I don't understand why people try to use the word "unnatural" when talking about homosexuality. To me "unnatural" means that it doesn't happen in nature. When in fact it happens in nature all the time. Not only with humans but animals as well. If two men or two women lived by themselves on a island their whole lives it would be natural for them to possibly fall in love with each other and have sex. Now, would that be their falut?

And making statements like "homosexuality is a mental condition" is completley ignorant.
 
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emiliano

Well-Known Member
Sweetie, I hate to break it to you but you and your posse of homophobic fundamentalist evangelicals don't own the Christian church. You don't have the authority to speak on behalf of the UU, United church, Catholics, Anglicans, Protestants, etc. You and your church are a tiny minority (although noisy beyond your numbers) and are quite out of sync with mainstream Christianity.

Mainstream Christians, if they oppose same sex marriage (and there is no guarantee), oppose it because they believe the union of male and female is sacred, not because - like you and your church - they think homosexuals are all evil, unrepentant sinners choosing lives that are offensive to god, who will burn forever in hell.

Because of that, most Christian churches have come to terms with the reality of homosexuality. Some are marrying gay couples in church, some have openly gay ministers, some have a tradition like confession so that homosexuals can give celibacy their best shot but be forgiven when they fail. (Pretty much inevitable, since almost everybody who has a sex drive to begin with fails at celibacy.) So you, my dear, are the anomaly. You're the vocal minority shoving your beliefs down everybody else's throat.

So what if your church doesn't want homosexuals? They'll just go to the UU church up the street, where nobody wants people like you.

But sweetie, that is my opinion and the opinion of the Churches that I attend to, I do not attend Churches that have unrepeated gays with priest in pink hot pants and a bunch of Homos nancyng around the alter, anyway I like your solution, congregational segregation sounds good to me, if they drop the title of Christians it would be even better, I don’t hate them so I have nothing against them having Gay Churches, just don’t expect me to tell them that they will be OK and have any fellowship with them, and please don’t twist the scriptures to accommodate them in a Christian Church, form your own and don’t call it Christian Church, don’t call gay unions marriages because they are not marriages, call them something else. Be creative!
And sweetie the United Church is divided in this issue and there will be chasm and it was a small Church to begin with so there will two segregate UC, another point that I like to make is that all organized Churches have confession-repentance-forgiveness- clean slate status for many, many failures at attempts at abstinence; there is a process to follow before excommunication, what I referred to is those gays that refused to repent and try abstinence and attempt to distort our tenets, so I am afraid that this is another very dead straw man, this kind either become anti-Christianity atheist or follower of seductive doctrines of demons. As I said Christianity demands repentance and life style change as a condition for fellowship.
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
I don’t hate them so

really? because i couldnt find a single non-hateful statement in that entire post. but maybe making hateful statements is how you show that you dont hate someone.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
I don't understand why people try to use the word "unnatural" when talking about homosexuality. To me "unnatural" means that it doesn't happen in nature. When in fact it happens in nature all the time. Not only with humans but animals as well. If two men or two women lived by themselves on a island their whole lives it would be natural for them to possibly fall in love with each other and have sex. Now, would that be their falut?

And making statements like "homosexuality is a mental condition" is completley ignorant.

Joe it seems to that you lack information to the why I called it unnatural, for a male to have sex with another male is against their natural instinct, which is to reproduce and preserve their gene pool, whether this happen in irrational brutes or humans is against nature (get it?), and as you can worked out your Island story is still an unnatural instinct “fall in love with each other and have sex”? Joe you don’t have to have sex with everything/everybody that you love, if you think that a male can substitute the natural copulation of male and female for gay sex, you’re nuts! A male falling in love with another male a natural act?
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
think being your beliefs are a mental condition, and beneath my contempt. i hope you never become a minority in your country, and have your rights infringed upon. lest you have to lower yourself to becoming a "vocal minority".

Thanks for your good wishes, I hope that I never become confused as they are, I ask you this before, what are Homosexual equal to?
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
I ask you this before, what are Homosexual equal to?

everyone else, if your talking about the people. if your talking about the sexual orientation, then its equal to heterosexuality. but why ask me? your a bigot......you have no rational reason to believe as you do, yet you do all the same. so what difference is my answer going to make to you?:shrug:
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
To JMorris.
Right of the Church to Excommunicate
The right to excommunicate is an immediate and necessary consequence of the fact that the Church is a society. Every society has the right to exclude and deprive of their rights and social advantages its unworthy or grievously culpable members, either temporarily or permanently.
I like to point out that as told you before excommunications are for Members who, by their obstinate disobedience, reject the means of attaining a common end, which is fellowship. They deserve to be removed from such a society if they persist in their disobedience. But they are given ample opportunities to repent and change. And I like to remind you that I said that the times that we have been asked to go to the polls we go with our whole being, we cast our vote (I am trying to sty on topic here). Now as I said the Church legislate on all of this in their society.

Any ways let see your concerns and see what secular societies do:
Do you excommunicate someone who is relentlessly boastful?

If the boasting is in relation to say a service and when tested it is found not to be what the boasting promised, you can sue , there are law in place that give you the right to sue.
Do you excommunicate someone who gossips?

Again there are laws in relation to slander and confidentiality breeches.
Do you excommunicate someone who is shamelessly prideful?

If one makes oneself a nuisance by it there are laws that apply.
Would you vote yes on a law to ban free speech?
When it contains lies, disrespect or slander it should be banned, this right has been overly abused, it need more limit settings.
Thereby eliminating the "sins" of Malignity, Backbiting, Boasting, Gossiping and publicly Hating God?

Which of these "sins" shall we legislate?
So all of these issues have been addressed and we must be careful in the way that we use this right or we may see ourselves in a court of law a secular court and be excommunicate to jail.
I see you supporting the legislation of only one. Hypocrisy is an ugly thing.

Ignorance and stupidity are uglier.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
everyone else, if your talking about the people. if your talking about the sexual orientation, then its equal to heterosexuality. but why ask me? your a bigot......you have no rational reason to believe as you do, yet you do all the same. so what difference is my answer going to make to you?:shrug:

But this behaviors are so alien to heterosexuals, how can be equality between these two?
This are people acting in an unnatural way, How can this be equal to what is natural?
 

JMorris

Democratic Socialist
But this behaviors are so alien to heterosexuals, how can be equality between these two?
This are people acting in an unnatural way, How can this be equal to what is natural?

im not wasting anymore time on you, and im not going to respond to any further posts that have no basis in reality. have fun in your little hate filled world.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Now once more time: The inclination that is termed Homosexuality is not a sin, a man having sex with another man is an abomination and in the bronze age it was punished by death, the Jews like all other culture left that behind long time ago and so did Christianity, now the punishment is excommunication and separation from God.
“Burning in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful” God demands morality religion and especially Christianity is not for everybody. I hope that your concerns do not cause you too much stress, it is simple God does not want you in His Kingdom and we don’t want you in our Church.

I agree with you that homosexuality in an of itself is not a sin. There isn't anything sinful about being homosexual. The sin is in acting upon such desires. It's not sinful for me to be overweight but it is sinful for me to indulge in chocolate simply for the sake of indulgence.

Please, think about it. Which sin is worse? Sex or greed? Why do we constantly push sex to the forefront as being the most terrible when ALL sin leaves us blemished?

I'm completely over Christians bashing the crap out of homosexuals and justifying their actions with the Bible. Christ instructed us to love and its only in love that we can be true witnesses.

You're right, Christianity isn't for everyone but I don't believe that one has to embrace evangelical Christianity to have a relationship with God. Everyone is redeemable and God can work through each of us. Homosexuals aren't sub standard human beings and Christians have a responsibility to communicate this, in my opinion. When we're called to love, embracing people should be a priority at all times. There's a difference between embracing a person and embracing sin.

I'm sorry for ranting but I do feel this is relative to your post. The tone of your post is so final and cold...like "Oh geez. You're gay. No hope for you." For crying out loud, if God thought this way, would ANY of us be redeemed?
 
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emiliano

Well-Known Member
I agree with you that homosexuality in an of itself is not a sin. There isn't anything sinful about being homosexual. The sin is in acting upon such desires. It's not sinful for me to be overweight but it is sinful for me to indulge in chocolate simply for the sake of indulgence.

Please, think about it. Which sin is worse? Sex or greed? Why do we constantly push sex to the forefront as being the most terrible when ALL sin leaves us blemished?

I'm completely over Christians bashing the crap out of homosexuals and justifying their actions with the Bible. Christ instructed us to love and its only in love that we can be true witnesses.
You're right, Christianity isn't for everyone but I don't believe that one has to embrace evangelical Christianity to have a relationship with God. Everyone is redeemable and God can work through each of us. Homosexuals aren't sub standard human beings and Christians have a responsibility to communicate this, in my opinion. When we're called to love, embracing people should be a priority at all times. There's a difference between embracing a person and embracing sin.

I'm sorry for ranting but I do feel this is relative to your post. The tone of your post is so final and cold...like "Oh geez. You're gay. No hope for you." For crying out loud, if God thought this way, would ANY of us be redeemed?

It seems that you have not read my posts or I managed to confuse you as well (my English is not good) I been trying to explain to these people that obstinate disobedience is what brings excommunication to a Christian, there are many examples of what this is it. Have I proposed any violence against them? In all that embracing that you propose, is there a call to repentance and change to go with the embraces? What do you think of the twisting of scriptures to make these behaviors acceptable in the Church? I believe that no one is saved by us or through us. Only God saves. We are to preach the word and they come, what could be the reason for some not to answer the call to Salvation? You can preach to these obstinate disobedient people till purple in the face with the some final result mocking, insults and slander, is it God failure? Is it the word failure? Is it the Holy Spirit? There is a discussion in the forum on free will that may help. BTW I also think that the seven deadly are as bad as unnatural sexual lust, are you saying that our failures in these areas make homosexual activities OK?
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
BTW I also think that the seven deadly are as bad as unnatural sexual lust, are you saying that our failures in these areas make homosexual activities OK?

I find it pathetic that God would give us instincts such as the 7 deadly sins and then tell us to not do them. Who is he to challenge us. What does he stand to gain by making us prove ourselves.
It is natural for lust after other people. Why shouldn't we? God didn't tell us not to, the bible does. What do we stand to gain by restricting our natural instincts? A place in heaven? Pffft... what do we have to base this on? The bible, hardly convincing.

I could never be a Christian, i think it is abhorent to prevent myself from doing things that come naturally to me.
 

emiliano

Well-Known Member
An update for Darkenless

Centrelink recognises same-sex relationships from 1 July 2009


The Australian Government has introduced wide-ranging reforms that recognise all couples, regardless of the sexual orientation or gender of a partner. The reforms also recognises children living in same-sex families.
From 1 July 2009 changes to legislation will mean that customers who are in a same-sex de facto relationship will be recognised as partnered for Centrelink and Family Assistance Office purposes. All customers who are assessed as being a member of a couple will have their rate of payment calculated in the same way.
http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/individuals/same_sex.htm
 
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