Homosexuality is not natural and is not normality

[Nada]

Prove it. Also prove that God was homophobic.

You are not ready.Your attitude speaks volumes.

 

[gsa]

If homosexual sex is not natural, then it is Supernatural. Isn't that what Christians are looking for in the Phenomenal Universe?

Evangelicals believe it is satanic.

 

[Nada]

It is more natural for a man to sleep with multiple women. Marriage is when he and a woman are made one flesh for the purposes of rearing righteous children, dedicating themselves to that task. It requires a contract, rules, agreements and effort and is therefore not natural but requires conscious choices. That doesn't make it unimportant. Its still important. A Jewish father is required to talk constantly about the Torah with his children.

You referred me to Romans 1:26-27. Because we are talking about the Bible, we know that this passage is referring to something that happened in the Bible to Jews, not to Gentiles. In particular this is probably (almost certainly) talking about the Jews who were dragged away by Assyrians and Babylonians and made to eat strange foods and to live like foreigners. They lost their special ability to keep Torah and were made to eat abominable foods and were no longer permitted to live by Torah. The whole book of Lamentations was written about it, because it was a subject of lament and was so traumatic. This passage in Romans 1:26 is one teensy little reference to all of that. Its about abominations, and only Jews can commit abominations that turn them into Gentiles. Gentiles cannot commit abominations, because we are already Gentiles. We already don't have the Torah, so we can't lose it. You can't lose something you already don't have.

You referred me to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. This one is commonly debated, and you probably have already heard that it refers to temple prostitution of little boys. Its a terrible thing that was a reality in those days, and even today is a problem. Even today children are in danger of falling victim to sex trafficking, and that is (most likely) what this passage refers to rather than to homosexuality.

Let me ask you this: why does Ezekiel refer to the sin of Sodom and Gomorah not as a sexual sin but as the sin of being arrogant, overfed and not caring for the poor? Why, specifically, does Ezekiel not mention homosexuality or 'Sodomy'? (Ezekiel 16:49) "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." So it becomes clear that in the eyes of Ezekiel, a prophet, that 'Sodomy' is not sexual but has to do with arrogance and unconcern. In fact if sex through the anus was such a big deal then Ezekiel should have mentioned it, since he said "This is the sin of your sister Sodom." Yes, we know that the men had sex with men in Sodom, because we can read the story yet Ezekiel doesn't include it as one of Sodom's sins. Instead he lists other things. Well, the simplest answer is that since Sodom was not Jewish there was no objection to how sex was performed, just as there was no objection if men in Sodom ate bacon or not.

Secondly, why is it that in the story of the destruction of the city of Sodom, why is it that Abraham not once is told by the angels that the men are sinning sexually? Instead the angels tell him that "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me" (NIV Gen 18:21). So Genesis tells us there was an outcry against Sodom, and Ezekiel details what that outcry was. So Christians should stop obsessing over trivialities about who is using the back-door during sex and start obsessing over how the poor are being taken care of and whether there is arrogance in our cities. We should above-all avoid slavery, which the king of Sodom was clearly involved in. He even said openly to Abraham "Give me the people and you take the goods" but Abraham would not touch his filthy money. Genesis never explains why, but Ezekiel tells us why.

First thanks for your response.I know it took time to type all of that.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah's sins were far greater than just sodomy.These people were doing all kinds of evil and were not very hospitable to foreigners.Sodomy has nothing at all to do with arrogance, and vice versa.Sodomy is a sexual sin,not one of pride.You say Ezekiel never mentions any of this yet in the book of Ezekiel it says,"48 As surely as I am alive,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘Sod′om your sister and her daughters have not done what you and your daughters have done. 49 Look! This was the error of Sod′om your sister: She and her daughters were proud and had an abundance of food and carefree tranquillity; yet they did not support the afflicted and the poor.50 They remained haughty and carried on detestable practices in my sight, so I found it necessary to remove them.

So here we actually have God declaring judgment on them and explaining what it was they did wrong.You show me the first part of the passage but you do not continue on.Thats entire passage is 3 scriptures long.You show me part of it instead of all of it in it's entirety.

God the Almighty is explaining all the things they did.They were not hospitable to others.They did not help the poor.He mentions they remained haughty and carried on detestable things.We know from reading that these people worshipped many gods and were also practicing homosexual behavior.These things are specifically mentioned as detestable to God in the holy scriptures.

So in a nut shell,these people were destroyed because they were not practicing the golden rule first of all.They were not loving their neighbors.They were worshipping false gods and committing sexually immoral acts.All of these things are sins and they showed no signs of repentance.They were destroyed and used as an example.Jesus and Paul use them as references when speaking of future judgment.

 

[Awoon]

Where exactly does God say homosexuality is an abomination?

Some guy wrote that his God said two men laying together was an abomination. That word simply means unclean. So wash up before and after.

 

[Ingledsva]

Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.

Homosexuality:a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

Sodomy:sexual intercourse involving anal or oral copulation.

Ps.Notice sodomy involves heterosexual people as well.

Except that it doesn't actually say that. And there is no - as with - in the sentence.

You will also note that whenever we get this mistranslated so-called homosexuality verse - we also have the other KNOWN Sacred Sex Prostitution practices with it, - because this is actually about Sacred Sex - thus IDOLATRY.
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Lev 20:13 If a man (iysh) also lie with mankind (zakar,) as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

ZAKAR is also - (commemorative, etc.,) and there is no - as with a - So - perhaps -

Lev 20:13 And if a Man also lies down for commemorative sex (Sacred Sex) with a women, both have committed IDOLATRY, they shall die; their blood shall be upon them.

Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.

Lev 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

Lev 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the

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Lev 18:21 And your semen don't give in copulation to MOLECH, and don't desecrate/prostitute yourself; honor Elohiym, I am YHVH

Lev 18:22 And with/for males, don't lie down in the beds/for intercourse woman, idolatry is this.

Note the strange wording, and NO "as with a" in 22.

Lev 18:23 And also with any beasts don't lay carnally, thus defiling yourself. And thus also woman shall not be employed to serve beasts in copulation. Bestiality it is!

Lev 18:30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

That word translated "customs" is chuqqah - STATUTES/LAWS/RITES

Homosexuality is not a LAW-STATUTE-RITE, etc, that they PRACTICED BEFORE!!!!!

However, Sacred Sex with the Qedeshah and Qadesh WAS!!!

1 Sa 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto Israel; and how they had sex with the women that waited at the entrance of the Tabernacle of the congregation.

Lev 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.

Lev 20:3 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

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[Ingledsva]

First thanks for your response.I know it took time to type all of that.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah's sins were far greater than just sodomy. These people were doing all kinds of evil and were not very hospitable to foreigners.Sodomy has nothing at all to do with arrogance, and vice versa.Sodomy is a sexual sin,not one of pride.You say Ezekiel never mentions any of this yet in the book of Ezekiel it says,"48 As surely as I am alive,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘Sod′om your sister and her daughters have not done what you and your daughters have done. 49 Look! This was the error of Sod′om your sister: She and her daughters were proud and had an abundance of food and carefree tranquillity; yet they did not support the afflicted and the poor.50 They remained haughty and carried on detestable practices in my sight, so I found it necessary to remove them.

So here we actually have God declaring judgment on them and explaining what it was they did wrong.You show me the first part of the passage but you do not continue on.Thats entire passage is 3 scriptures long.You show me part of it instead of all of it in it's entirety.

God the Almighty is explaining all the things they did.They were not hospitable to others.They did not help the poor.He mentions they remained haughty and carried on detestable things.We know from reading that these people worshipped many gods and were also practicing homosexual behavior.These things are specifically mentioned as detestable to God in the holy scriptures.

So in a nut shell,these people were destroyed because they were not practicing the golden rule first of all.They were not loving their neighbors.They were worshipping false gods and committing sexually immoral acts.All of these things are sins and they showed no signs of repentance.They were destroyed and used as an example.Jesus and Paul use them as references when speaking of future judgment.

There is actually NO reference to homosexual sex in the Sodom and Gomorrah story.

They are trying to translate one word - YADA - which God also uses a few chapters before, in this same story, - as - know - in the sexual sense. I don't think God was going down for some homosexual sex.

Luckily we have another story with the exact same scenario, using the same word, with men surrounding the house - saying send them out. And this story gives us the meaning of YADA in this context.

Jdg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know (YADA) him.

Jdg 20:3 (Now the children of Benjamin heard that the children of Israel were gone up to Mizpeh.) Then said the children of Israel, Tell us, what was this wickedness?

Jdg 20:4 And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that belongeth to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge.

Jdg 20:5 And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, and thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.


Not have sex with him - SLAY HIM!

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[Brickjectivity]

First thanks for your response.I know it took time to type all of that.

Yes Sodom and Gomorrah's sins were far greater than just sodomy.These people were doing all kinds of evil and were not very hospitable to foreigners.Sodomy has nothing at all to do with arrogance, and vice versa.Sodomy is a sexual sin,not one of pride.You say Ezekiel never mentions any of this yet in the book of Ezekiel it says,"48 As surely as I am alive,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘Sod′om your sister and her daughters have not done what you and your daughters have done. 49 Look! This was the error of Sod′om your sister: She and her daughters were proud and had an abundance of food and carefree tranquillity; yet they did not support the afflicted and the poor.50 They remained haughty and carried on detestable practices in my sight, so I found it necessary to remove them.

So here we actually have God declaring judgment on them and explaining what it was they did wrong.You show me the first part of the passage but you do not continue on.Thats entire passage is 3 scriptures long.You show me part of it instead of all of it in it's entirety.

God the Almighty is explaining all the things they did.They were not hospitable to others.They did not help the poor.He mentions they remained haughty and carried on detestable things.We know from reading that these people worshipped many gods and were also practicing homosexual behavior.These things are specifically mentioned as detestable to God in the holy scriptures.

So in a nut shell,these people were destroyed because they were not practicing the golden rule first of all.They were not loving their neighbors.They were worshipping false gods and committing sexually immoral acts.All of these things are sins and they showed no signs of repentance.They were destroyed and used as an example.Jesus and Paul use them as references when speaking of future judgment.

I only quoted part of the three verses, but I have no problem with a reading of all three, and its not like I was purposely trying to trick you into making the above argument about detestable practices. I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things. People burning their children alive. These are detestable and matter and have to be stopped. Think about what really goes against loving other people, and you have a good idea of what a detestable practice is. People starve right next door to people who are fat and wealthy! These kinds of continuous problem down through the centuries are in a completely different category from whether you pick your nose. People enslave each other, starve their neighbors and just stop caring. This happens repeatedly over the centuries. According to the stories in the Prophets it happens in the southern kingdom before the Assyrians come, and it happens in the Northern kingdom before the Babylonians come, and it happens after the return with Zerubbabel when Nehemiah is prophesying against it. It is that kind of problem that is truly detestable, the kind of thing that creates a huge outcry and causes the destruction of Sodom and the exile of Israel more than once.

 

[Nada]

I only quoted part of the three verses, but I have no problem with a reading of all three, and its not like I was purposely trying to trick you into making the above argument about detestable practices. I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things. People burning their children alive. These are detestable and matter and have to be stopped. Think about what really goes against loving other people, and you have a good idea of what a detestable practice is. People starve right next door to people who are fat and wealthy! These kinds of continuous problem down through the centuries are in a completely different category from whether you pick your nose. People enslave each other, starve their neighbors and just stop caring. This happens repeatedly over the centuries. According to the stories in the Prophets it happens in the southern kingdom before the Assyrians come, and it happens in the Northern kingdom before the Babylonians come, and it happens after the return with Zerubbabel when Nehemiah is prophesying against it. It is that kind of problem that is truly detestable, the kind of thing that creates a huge outcry and causes the destruction of Sodom and the exile of Israel more than once.

Leviticus20:13 "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy12:31You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

So here we have God's word saying that Anal sex is detestable and that worshipping false gods is also detestable to Him,just as I mentioned in a previous comment.

You said ,"I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things"

What you think and what God says are two different things.

By the way,sodomy and worshipping false gods are really horrible things to God.

 

[Nada]

I only quoted part of the three verses, but I have no problem with a reading of all three, and its not like I was purposely trying to trick you into making the above argument about detestable practices. I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things. People burning their children alive. These are detestable and matter and have to be stopped. Think about what really goes against loving other people, and you have a good idea of what a detestable practice is. People starve right next door to people who are fat and wealthy! These kinds of continuous problem down through the centuries are in a completely different category from whether you pick your nose. People enslave each other, starve their neighbors and just stop caring. This happens repeatedly over the centuries. According to the stories in the Prophets it happens in the southern kingdom before the Assyrians come, and it happens in the Northern kingdom before the Babylonians come, and it happens after the return with Zerubbabel when Nehemiah is prophesying against it. It is that kind of problem that is truly detestable, the kind of thing that creates a huge outcry and causes the destruction of Sodom and the exile of Israel more than once.

Oh I was not implying that you purposely left out the other two verses.I was merely explaining that in order to fully grasp, and comprehend what is being said,one must read the passage in it's entirety first.

 

[McBell]

Leviticus20:13 "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy12:31You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

So here we have God's word saying that Anal sex is detestable and that worshipping false gods is also detestable to Him,just as I mentioned in a previous comment.

You said ,"I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things"

What you think and what God says are two different things.

By the way,sodomy and worshipping false gods are really horrible things to God.

How does any of it apply to non-Christians?
How does your favoured deity claiming it to be an abomination mean it is not natural?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Is there any evidence in the New Testament of Jesus discriminating against homosexuals? And doesn't "Love thy neighbour" mean a kind and accepting attitude to all types of people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever?

Clearly there was an element of cultural homophobia when the Bible texts were written, but bringing those attitudes into 21st century Christianity seems regressive and entirely out of step with Christ's teaching.

Religious homophobia is odious, however cleverly it is packaged.

There is none apparent no.

As for the Text itself, it has right and wrong to convey. That does not always align with what we want anymore than our views might align with our children's.

 

[Robert.Evans]

What evidence do you have to support the idea that Jesus would judge people due to their sexual orientation?

The Mosaic Law

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well what many fail to fully comprehend about the holy scriptures is that is God's word.The Jews were instructed by it.Homosexuality was forbidden in the OT.Jesus came later and preached the word of God.Homosexuality is still forbidden in the NT.Everything the disciples taught was what Jesus preached.

Agreed.
What has happened to the sorrowful looking face. It made you look really fed up. I like it. I think I shall start a campaign to bring it back

 

[Robert.Evans]

Prove it. Also prove that God was homophobic.

It is in the OT law Spiney. You either accept that or you don't. It is the act that is wrong.

 

[Ingledsva]

Maybe you should have read the before context before replying
Romans 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

LOL! Sacred Sex, ALL. Read up on it. Animals also.

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[leibowde84]

The Mosaic Law

The Mosaic Law doesn't say anything about sexual orientation.

 

[Ingledsva]

No.It is still an abomination.The reason for this is because it goes against the natural ways of Husband and Wife.It is a gross imperfection.Sexual immorality.It was in the OT for Jews and is in the NT for Christians.

Romans 1:26-27.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.


1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

There are many sins.True christians do not pick on gays.They explain God's views.God hates all sin but he calls homosexuality an abomination.

By the way,this thread is called " Homosexuality is not natural and is not normality", that is why homosexuality is being discussed and not other topics or sins.

Already covered Romans I - Sacred Sex.

1Corinthians 6 does not have "men who have sex with men."

It has the word - arsenokoites - which is not found in any ancient text as having to do with homosexuals.

It is found in texts as the rape of women or men.

It does not get used as homosexuality until the later church starts translating it as such.

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[Nada]

Agreed.
What has happened to the sorrowful looking face. It made you look really fed up. I like it. I think I shall start a campaign to bring it back

I was thinking the same thing.Lol.. I like it too.I was trying to change things up.I guess if it aint broke don't fix it huh.

 

[Ingledsva]

Leviticus20:13 "'If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy12:31You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

So here we have God's word saying that Anal sex is detestable and that worshipping false gods is also detestable to Him,just as I mentioned in a previous comment.

You said ,"I just think that 'Detestable practices' as mentioned isn't about anal sex which is a problem in the way that picking one's nose is. 'Detestable practices' given what Ingledsva just pointed out, has to do with really terrible things like enslavement, temple prostitute sex, prostitution of children, men selling their daughters as prostitutes and that kind of thing -- really horrible things"

What you think and what God says are two different things.

By the way,sodomy and worshipping false gods are really horrible things to God.

No it doesn't - you are adding your belief into it.

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[dgirl1986]

Please don't do that, you may need them in the future!

Lol but it is oh so tempting