Homosexuality

[MyM]

It is amazing how many people are taught things in Sunday school that are just not in the Bible at all. So that doesn't surprise me.



Indeed.

this is true

 

[MyM]

This isn’t just about “being impolite.” The preponderance of the Levitican Law has to do with sheltering the vulnerable, especially strangers and outsiders. Notice, for example, that there was not an elder to greet visitors at the city gates. That was law. Instead, a visitor offered hospitality. Once taken in, the host was required to protect the guest even over his family. In the story, the visitor was a better host than the city elders.

The men weren’t doing “bad sexual oriented things,” they were committing violence against those they should have been sheltering.

In Islam, it says different.

 

[Brickjectivity]

In His Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said "judge not lest ye be judged." Yet, if we don't judge Satan, we might follow him. We have to discern good from bad. To that end, it seems logical not to follow friends who become drug pushers, murderers, etc.

I don't remember where you stand. Clara Tea haven't you already said you aren't a Christian and don't believe in things like Satan? I don't remember. What is your position or what are your thoughts on the nature of The Satan?

I view Satan as a word that ought to be translated instead of transliterated, because it confuses people. They overlook the central concept: that sinful thoughts come from our minds or as the NT Jesus says "From the heart." Who is it that crouches at Cain's door, ready to take control? Sin, and that passage about Sin in Genesis is the very first passage demonstrating the anthropomorphism of sin in Cain. Cain is an angry man, easily overtaken by his rage. I identify with his problem and understand what it is like to see red. Why is the devil red? He's red, because he makes us see blood.

No, I think we will not follow Satan by associating with people who have differences or who do evil or who criticize us or who we cannot stand or who are sick. Nor will they be dragged down by associating with evil people such as ourselves. Jesus is quoted to say sin comes from the heart, and I believe him about that. It doesn't come from people around us. I think you won't be tempted to do anything that isn't already in your own heart, and no crowd is the wrong crowd.

I have tried living the other way, and staying away from the wrong crowd does not work. You are your own crowd. My opinion on that.

 

[sojourner]

In Islam, it says different.

Ok, but the Bible ain’t Islam. I’m speaking of the Bible. Please don’t superimpose your religious understanding on it.

 

[DNB]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

I, as a Christian, find homosexuality as immoral. Which, there are countless sexual activities that I believe to be inappropriate and harmful to one's character. In short, the only type of sexual relation that I accept as sound and moral, would that which takes place between a married, heterosexual couple. And, that, only when it's done with respect and decency, and not for the sake of lust, boredom or perversion.

I would never estrange myself from a family member who may consider themselves to be gay, but I would make it abundantly clear that I don't approve (as my entire family already knows). But, there will come a point where if their sexual orientation becomes too overt and impossible to avoid, I will have to limit my appearance with them.
All my friends do things that I don't approve of, and they all know that my position on the matter because I made it a point yo it express that to them - I feel that they'd be better off if they desisted from their subversive ways.

My denunciation of homosexuality is out of compassion and truth, I want people to be sound, wholesome and caring. Confusing one's gender does not facilitate that process, but is adverse to it.
The glory of a marital relationship is derived from the symbiotic engagement of two complementarian genders.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I, as a Christian, find homosexuality as immoral.

Homosexuality is an inborn orientation. What does that have to do with "morality?" There are people who like broccoli, and a lot who don't -- which would you say are moral and which immoral?

While we're at it, please explain to the forum how you went about the process of selecting your own "moral" sexual orientation. Which choices did you have before you? How did you accept one and not the other?

Which, there are countless sexual activities that I believe to be inappropriate and harmful to one's character. In short, the only type of sexual relation that I accept as sound and moral, would that which takes place between a married, heterosexual couple. And, that, only when it's done with respect and decency, and not for the sake of lust, boredom or perversion.

I take it, then, that you've never masturbated? When you were a youngster and in the bathtub, you never discovered that touching yourself could be pleasurable? Or, perhaps, did you discover it and decide if you ever did it again you would cut off the offending hand?

I would never estrange myself from a family member who may consider themselves to be gay, but I would make it abundantly clear that I don't approve (as my entire family already knows). But, there will come a point where if their sexual orientation becomes too overt and impossible to avoid, I will have to limit my appearance with them.

All my friends do things that I don't approve of, and they all know that my position on the matter because I made it a point yo it express that to them - I feel that they'd be better off if they desisted from their subversive ways.

Simple question about all of that longish screed -- what the heck does YOUR approval have to do with anybody else? Why should they give even a moment's notice to what you "approve" of? Are you special in some way, endowed with some sort of omniscience about all and sundry?

My denunciation of homosexuality is out of compassion and truth,

How does "denunciation" correspond to "compassion," and how is it you suppose that you have special access to "truth?"

For the record -- I return to my hatred of dogma here -- unless you are omniscient, you don't know what the **** truth is. You merely assume you do.

I want people to be sound, wholesome and caring. Confusing one's gender does not facilitate that process, but is adverse to it.

The glory of a marital relationship is derived from the symbiotic engagement of two complementarian genders.

Do you know what? I am “sound, wholesome and caring.” I’ve been with my partner for 30 years. I’ve supported him when he was out of work. When he had a mental breakdown and was hospitalized, I was the one who was there for him. When he was paralyzed for 8 ½ months with Guillaine Barre Syndrome, I’m the one who ran from work to the hospital at lunch to feed him, then back to work, then back to the hospital at dinner to do it again. I’ve been his support ever since – me, and me alone. What about that would you say, in your infinite wisdom is not “sound, wholesome and caring.” PLEASE EXPLAIN IN DETAIL – I’m sure it will be edifying for all of us here not as wise as you.

Oh, and by the way, “symbiosis” has nothing whatever to do with gender.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

@Evangelicalhumanist, you've stayed with your partner a lot longer than most straight couples stay married to their first spouse, and I commend you for it. Most straight couples, including Christians, are divorced and remarried, sometimes more than once or twice. It's ironic to hear some Christians bellowing about the sanctity of marriage when many Christians are divorced and remarried themselves. Remember Kim Davis? She's the Christian who refused to issue marriage licenses to gay couples. Well, she was in her fourth marriage at the time. What a hypocrite. Anyway, I wish you and your partner the very best in life. Peace, my friend.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Pray, what’s “broken” about someone whom the medical community has determined is not ill?

Is the medical community always accurate?

Is the psychology community always accurate?

Are you in touch with hurting people, constantly evangelizing and ministering to them?

 

[Rival]

Are you in touch with hurting people, constantly evangelizing and ministering to them?

Do you know how many folks Christianity has left hurt and broken?

 

[Left Coast]

Do you know how many folks Christianity has left hurt and broken?

Particularly gay people who are told that their sexuality is perverted and they must suppress it or try in vain to change it if they want to make it to The Good Place.

 

[sojourner]

Is the medical community always accurate?

Is the psychology community always accurate?

Are you in touch with hurting people, constantly evangelizing and ministering to them?

That’s beside the point. The medical community is more an authority on human medicine than the Bible. The psychological community is more an authority on the human psyche than the Bible.

Oh, and yes, as a member of the clergy with standing in a mainstream Christian denomination, I am constantly in touch with hurting people, not only evangelizing and ministering to them, but doing healing and counseling work with them when they’re troubled. I’ve met many homosexuals, both “in” and “out.” My best friend, many colleagues, and some family members are gay. They hurt when they’re dehumanized by unfounded moral judgment. They hurt when they’re discriminated against by self-righteous people who claim that they’re “broken” somehow, and need spiritual fixing. They hurt when they know they’re gay, and everyone around them who means something to them claims that they’re “wrong” for being gay, and they just want it to stop. They hurt when they begin to believe the lies that they need help, and that who they are isn’t good enough.

And I’ve exegeted the Bible enough to know that it never mentions homosexuality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My denunciation of homosexuality is out of compassion and truth,

I don't believe that for a second.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is the medical community always accurate?

Is the psychology community always accurate?

Are you in touch with hurting people, constantly evangelizing and ministering to them?

Is this your way of admitting that you practice conversion "therapy"?

 

[1213]

Brown isn't what you get when you mix all colors. Neither in additive (which would be black) ....

Ok, then it should be black.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Ok, then it should be black.

As cool as a bunch of lgbt pirates would be, the 'alphabet mafia' is already the current moniker.

With how insecure the US is about perceived masculinity, though, maybe a pink flag would do us some good.

 

[DNB]

I don't believe that for a second.

Then, give it a minute or two?

 

[night912]

I won’t bother talking until I blue in the face attempting to convince you of God’s love. I do believe it, though, from my own experience. As far as the Holocaust goes; I lay the blame totally on Hitler who was deeply involved in the occult, inspired by, and filled with satanic hatred toward God’s chosen people and anyone he felt was inferior. Why did God allow this? Why not intervene in this awful situation and many others? Why doesn’t He rescue all the children being abused (like you when you were young) or those being trafficked and destroy the abusers? Those are valid questions and ones I’ve asked... but I don’t blame God. Instead, I have desired and asked to understand the big picture. I believe God gave humanity freedom because real love must involve freedom. Freedom to choose; right or wrong, good or evil, His love and wisdom or hate and ignorance. According to the scriptures, this freedom included dominion over the earth. Yet, rather than trusting God’s love, wisdom, and goodness, humans chose wrongly and continue to do so, which plays out in so many harmful ways. Therefore, this is a fallen world where bad things happen to anyone. It is also a temporary world because God will not let the evil and bad things people choose to do to each other go on for eternity. I am very thankful for that. So, why doesn’t God intervene and stop all the evil? I’d say first, because He will not impede human freewill and opportunity to choose. Freedom is a gift and being made in His image must include real freedom and authentic love; meaning it cannot be gored or robotic. Secondly, this world and life are not the ultimate goal or God’s priority for us. Eternal life is and the new heaven and earth which will be sin free... no more tears, suffering or death. This life is temporary, the test of our true attitudes, and the time to choose. Time is short; eternity isn’t. So that’s what matters.
Just my thoughts. I don’t expect to convince you or change your mind.

God impede the freewill of the humans that lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[night912]

Is the medical community always accurate?

Is the psychology community always accurate?

Is the medical community sometimes accurate?

Is the psychology community sometimes accurate?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then, give it a minute or two?

You call evil "compassion." Doesn't your religion forbid hypocrisy?

 

[night912]

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

As I said, it's not on me to answer. I just put what the faiths are.

But what you've just said above, is a straight up lie. And lying is a sin. What makes it a lie? Where's the evidence? It's what you said below.

If it is FOR ME, I would say, I would not be in that situation. I am very religious and I try to do by what my Creator wants.

Since you try to do what your creator wants, and since you said that that's what your creator wants, then that was your answer. So in fact, you are saying that you either did, are, and/or would disown family members and friends just for being homosexual.

Unless if you're implying that you're not doing what your creator wants, or worse, purposely trying not to do what Allah wants.

If you are sayin, that I was to be a homosexual and that happen. Well, I wouldn't be one.

Actually, you would be one, even if you didn't want to. And just because you chose to never do any homosexual acts, like you've said, you're still committing sin due to your sexual orientation being homosexual. It wouldn't matter how much you deny being one, according to you, you would be justifiably disowned by your friends and family. But most importantly, disowned by Allah, your creator.