Homosexuality

[MyM]

But what you've just said above, is a straight up lie. And lying is a sin. What makes it a lie? Where's the evidence? It's what you said below.



Since you try to do what your creator wants, and since you said that that's what your creator wants, then that was your answer. So in fact, you are saying that you either did, are, and/or would disown family members and friends just for being homosexual.

Unless if you're implying that you're not doing what your creator wants, or worse, purposely trying not to do what Allah wants.


Actually, you would be one, even if you didn't want to. And just because you chose to never do any homosexual acts, like you've said, you're still committing sin due to your sexual orientation being homosexual. It wouldn't matter how much you deny being one, according to you, you would be justifiably disowned by your friends and family. But most importantly, disowned by Allah, your creator.

Those are your words. I have no idea what you are on about.

Just leave it alone.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you know how many folks Christianity has left hurt and broken?

I can speak only for me and seeing broken people restored.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That’s beside the point. The medical community is more an authority on human medicine than the Bible. The psychological community is more an authority on the human psyche than the Bible.

Oh, and yes, as a member of the clergy with standing in a mainstream Christian denomination, I am constantly in touch with hurting people, not only evangelizing and ministering to them, but doing healing and counseling work with them when they’re troubled. I’ve met many homosexuals, both “in” and “out.” My best friend, many colleagues, and some family members are gay. They hurt when they’re dehumanized by unfounded moral judgment. They hurt when they’re discriminated against by self-righteous people who claim that they’re “broken” somehow, and need spiritual fixing. They hurt when they know they’re gay, and everyone around them who means something to them claims that they’re “wrong” for being gay, and they just want it to stop. They hurt when they begin to believe the lies that they need help, and that who they are isn’t good enough.

And I’ve exegeted the Bible enough to know that it never mentions homosexuality.

The Bible is more accurate on the human psyche than the constantly shifting psychology community.

The Bible mentions homosexuality 18 times, none of them positive references.

I also counsel and heal, but from the wiser playbook--the Bible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Is the medical community sometimes accurate?

Is the psychology community sometimes accurate?

The Bible is always spot on--the main point.

 

[sojourner]

The Bible mentions homosexuality 18 times, none of them positive references

No it doesn’t. Show me one single passage where either the Hebrew or the Greek term for “homosexuality” appears. Just one.

Additionally, have you ever wondered why the Bible presents these acts (not orientations) in a negative light? Could it be:
A) Their knowledge of human sexuality wasn’t as complete as ours?
B) Their cultural mores where honor and shame were sexually-embedded prevented them from seeing same-sex relationships as natural?
C) The acts to which they refer were probably exploitative and/or violent, and not loving/committed/consensual?

I also counsel and heal, but from the wiser playbook--the Bible

How special for you!

 

[night912]

The Bible is always spot on--the main point.

Obviously, except for when it's not .

 

[InChrist]

God impede the freewill of the humans that lived in Sodom and Gomorrah.

What do you mean?

 

[night912]

Those are your words. I have no idea what you are on about.

Just leave it alone.

I'm just telling you what the facts say.
Those other words are actually yours, not mine.

 

[night912]

What do you mean?

God intervened in the freewill of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah instead of letting them have their freewill like how he did with the Nazi.

 

[InChrist]

God intervened in the freewill of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah instead of letting them have their freewill like how he did with the Nazi.

No, God did not intervene in the freewill of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah. The purpose of freewill is to choose between good and evil, right and wrong, light and darkness. The people of Sodom and Gomorrah used their free will to choose evil. God did not impede their freewill. What God did do was bring judgement ...
...Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave..
Genesis 18:20

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Rival, if someone is inclined toward an act that God disapproves of, what should that person do?

If one is a cleptomaniac, what should that person do?

Give in and do it, or fight against their inclinations?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Rival, if someone is inclined toward an act that God disapproves of, what should that person do?

If one is a cleptomaniac, what should that person do?

Give in and do it, or fight against their inclinations?

Being a cleptomaniac is being a thief. That is wrong because it causes undue amd unjust harm to another.
Being gay does not.

 

[Rival]

Rival, if someone is inclined toward an act that God disapproves of, what should that person do?

If one is a cleptomaniac, what should that person do?

Give in and do it, or fight against their inclinations?

It depends what the action is and how it should be dealt with.

When it comes to homosexuality, this is not just like being a kleptomaniac - it is a person's whole love life and potential future. How he deals with it is between himself and God. I just cannot in good conscience stop two folks from being in love and engaging in consensual acts, even if I myself disagreed with them. If God finds it objectionable, let God deal with it.

 

[night912]

Contradictions after contradictions and excuses after excuses.

No, God did not intervene in the freewill of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah.

You mean like how he did not intervene in the freewill of the people of the Nazi party? Got it.

The purpose of freewill is to choose between good and evil, right and wrong, light and darkness.

You mean like how the the members of the Nazi party chose to do? Got it.

The people of Sodom and Gomorrah used their free will to choose evil.

You mean like how the people of the Nazi party used their freewill to choose evil? Got it.

God did not impede their freewill.

So like how god didn't stop the NAZI from doing what they will to the Jews? Got it.

What God did do was bring judgement...Genesis 18:20

If you're going to use a bible verse, then at least used the correct one. God didn't bring judgment to Sodom and Gomorrah until after he was done negotiating with Abraham.

Genesis 18:20-21
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; 21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

...Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grave..

Because the outcry against Nazi Germany is so great, and because their sins are very grave.........
.........God chose not to intervene nor bring justice to them. Instead, God let them continue on choosing to do evil by murdering over 6 MILLION Jews......


Did God intervened to save the righteous when the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki burned to ashes? Or did God just let the righteous burned with the wicked like his original plan for bringing justice to Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Obviously, except for when it's not .

The Bible contains much of the greatest advice on anxiety, wisdom, how to think . . . it is inerrant, prescient and proven.

You and I are fallible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No it doesn’t. Show me one single passage where either the Hebrew or the Greek term for “homosexuality” appears. Just one.

Additionally, have you ever wondered why the Bible presents these acts (not orientations) in a negative light? Could it be:
A) Their knowledge of human sexuality wasn’t as complete as ours?
B) Their cultural mores where honor and shame were sexually-embedded prevented them from seeing same-sex relationships as natural?
C) The acts to which they refer were probably exploitative and/or violent, and not loving/committed/consensual?


How special for you!

Is that how you converse with the people you counsel?

By the way, WHAT acts that they referred to, say between men and men or women with women, were "probably exploitative and/or violent, and not loving/committed/consensual"? Homosexual sex acts or something else? You are making the argument for me.

 

[sojourner]

Is that how you converse with the people you counsel?

By the way, WHAT acts that they referred to, say between men and men or women with women, were "probably exploitative and/or violent, and not loving/committed/consensual"? Homosexual sex acts or something else? You are making the argument for me.

Pederasty, “prison rape,” drunken lust.

BTW, while you’re in the process of gaslighting, perhaps you could quote me one snippet where he term homosexuality is used, as I asked earlier.

 

[night912]

The Bible contains much of the greatest advice on anxiety, wisdom, how to think . . . it is inerrant, prescient and proven.

You and I are fallible.

I agree that you and I are fallible. This is why you believing that the bible contains much of the greatest advice on anxiety, wisdom, how to think....it is inerrant, prescient and proven, is an illogical belief.

For your determination, I'll be generous and give you a "D-" instead of an "F" in Logic 101. In order to earn an "A" one must say something that's logical, and not demonstrate that they are being illogical.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Pederasty, “prison rape,” drunken lust.

BTW, while you’re in the process of gaslighting, perhaps you could quote me one snippet where he term homosexuality is used, as I asked earlier.

The acts were same sex acts. I don't want to belabor with you exegesis.

Nor am I unsympathetic. I have gay friends and family, but the "natural" state of ALL persons who aren't born again is broken/hole in the life that only Christ can fill.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I agree that you and I are fallible. This is why you believing that the bible contains much of the greatest advice on anxiety, wisdom, how to think....it is inerrant, prescient and proven, is an illogical belief.

For your determination, I'll be generous and give you a "D-" instead of an "F" in Logic 101. In order to earn an "A" one must say something that's logical, and not demonstrate that they are being illogical.

You cannot logically knock my logic (!) since the Bible is inerrant, and will be meaningful when we're dust.