Homosexuality

[pearl]

I would say a married man in prison who commits rape is bisexual, not straight--he has the ability to perform even though the act is one of rage in part. Does the Bible therefore laud or embrace bisexual behavior? It doe snot.

A heterosexual man in prison who commits rape is not bisexual, he is a heterosexual pervert committing a crime of rape driven by power over another.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Conversion therapy--especially as practiced by lay leaders--is often harmful, yes. Restoration therapy for homosexuals who were sexually abused as children or had broken relationships with same sex parents and other imprinting--is wonderful, especially when led by the Holy Spirit, since God loves to heal, bless and cure.

Changing the name doesn't change the outcome.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Can you or I score 100 on a test despite being fallible? Of course we can, and the Bible withstands all types of tests regarding prescience, prophecy and scientific accuracy.

It describes the Earth as fixed and flat.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

No they don’t. They refer to pederasty.

Ignorance about the proper ESV translation of Greek as homosexuality is not a sin, but knowingly obfuscating about it ater it has been brought to your attention is dishonest.. If you have a problem with the ESV understanding of the relevant original Greek meaning of the scripture, take it up with them and see who is correct. If they retract it, fine, if not then accept you were ignorant....or worse. Christianity requires it adherents to be honest.

 

[sojourner]

Ignorance about the proper ESV translation of Greek as homosexuality is not a sin, but knowingly obfuscating about it ater it has been brought to your attention is dishonest.. If you have a problem with the ESV understanding of the relevant original Greek meaning of the scripture, take it up with them and see who is correct. If they retract it, fine, if not then accept you were ignorant....or worse. Christianity requires it adherents to be honest.

“9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites…” (1Cor. 6:9; NRSV). You’ll note that the term “homosexual” does not appear in the text. This is because no such term, as it is understood and used by medical and social science, exists in Koine Greek.

As you’re likely aware, the NRSV is a much better, less biased translation. The ESV, however, has a decidedly evangelical bias. From the web site: “1 This writer has met a number of such in both the United Kingdom and the USA. It is people like these who have formed the movement to produce a conservative revision of the RSV. The English Standard Version is the result. The purpose of this article is to demonstrate that the ESV is a light revision of the RSV and that, because of the textual basis and translational errors carried over from the RSV, it is not a trustworthy translation of the Bible.” (https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles...FD229A90560F/The-English-Standard-Version.pdf)
Endorsed by a number of evangelical celebrity-ministers, whose take on homosexuality is notoriously clouded, the ESV does not “properly” translate the Greek terms. The term in question is arsenokoitai. It literally means “man-bed.” The conservative bias of the ESV translators conflates a cultural sex-act with a sexual orientation. However, because in that culture, pederasty was common practice, that is, sex between men and slave boys, it’s better to assume that the term refers to this common practice, rather than to the unknown term “homosexuality.” A homosexual is understood to mean a man who has a same-sex orientation. Pederasty is not an orientation, but rather a specific sex-act that is neither committed nor consensual, due to one partner being both underage and of lesser caste. It is that difference that renders the act one of violence and not one of consensual love, and likely why Paul is against it.

Ignorance about the ESV’s improper and biased translation of the Greek term as “homosexual” is not a sin, but knowingly obfuscating about it is dishonest. If you have a problem with the unbiased understanding of the relevant Greek meaning of the text under question, take it up with the translators of the NRSV and see who is correct. Xy requires its adherents to be honest.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

“9 Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites…” (1Cor. 6:9; NRSV). You’ll note that the term “homosexual” does not appear in the text. This is because no such term, as it is understood and used by medical and social science, exists in Koine Greek.

As you’re likely aware, the NRSV is a much better, less biased translation. The ESV, however, has a decidedly evangelical bias. From the web site: “1 This writer has met a number of such in both the United Kingdom and the USA. It is people like these who have formed the movement to produce a conservative revision of the RSV. The English Standard Version is the result. The purpose of this article is to demonstrate that the ESV is a light revision of the RSV and that, because of the textual basis and translational errors carried over from the RSV, it is not a trustworthy translation of the Bible.” (https://cdn.ymaws.com/www.tbsbibles...FD229A90560F/The-English-Standard-Version.pdf)
Endorsed by a number of evangelical celebrity-ministers, whose take on homosexuality is notoriously clouded, the ESV does not “properly” translate the Greek terms. The term in question is arsenokoitai. It literally means “man-bed.” The conservative bias of the ESV translators conflates a cultural sex-act with a sexual orientation. However, because in that culture, pederasty was common practice, that is, sex between men and slave boys, it’s better to assume that the term refers to this common practice, rather than to the unknown term “homosexuality.” A homosexual is understood to mean a man who has a same-sex orientation. Pederasty is not an orientation, but rather a specific sex-act that is neither committed nor consensual, due to one partner being both underage and of lesser caste. It is that difference that renders the act one of violence and not one of consensual love, and likely why Paul is against it.

Ignorance about the ESV’s improper and biased translation of the Greek term as “homosexual” is not a sin, but knowingly obfuscating about it is dishonest. If you have a problem with the unbiased understanding of the relevant Greek meaning of the text under question, take it up with the translators of the NRSV and see who is correct. Xy requires its adherents to be honest.

Hmmm, you are still obfuscating.

Orthodox Jewish Bible ... nor effeminate call boys nor homosexuals

World English Bible ...nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals

Revised Geneva Translation ... nor catamites, nor homosexuals

New Living Translation .... or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality.

Complete Jewish Bible ....who engage in active or passive homosexuality,

International Standard Version...male prostitutes, homosexuals

I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

As a Christian, I do not cast the first stone, I am not without sin. This is what is important to me, "Love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and do unto others as one would like done unto oneself." And of course forgiveness of all.

 

[sojourner]

Hmmm, you are still obfuscating.

Orthodox Jewish Bible ... nor effeminate call boys nor homosexuals

World English Bible ...nor male prostitutes, nor homosexuals

Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals

Revised Geneva Translation ... nor catamites, nor homosexuals

New Living Translation .... or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality.

Complete Jewish Bible ....who engage in active or passive homosexuality,

International Standard Version...male prostitutes, homosexuals

I could go on and on, but you get the picture.

As a Christian, I do not cast the first stone, I am not without sin. This is what is important to me, "Love thy God with all thy heart, with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and do unto others as one would like done unto oneself." And of course forgiveness of all.

The two Jewish Bibles wouldn’t include the passage under question, so there are two instances of obfuscation.
This is a good reason why the NRSV is one of the very best translations. The WEB is singularly translated from the ASV, which was used by the JWs. It was produced mainly — not to produce a better translation, but to produce a non-copyrighted work. The RSV is outdated and replaced by the NRSV.
Most mainstream denominations, as well as Bible scholars, use and endorse the use of, the NRSV.

All of that aside, there is no Biblical Hebrew or Greek word that transliterates to “homosexual.” The use of that word in translation always represents a compromise, and, in my view, usually a compromise of bias.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The two Jewish Bibles wouldn’t include the passage under question, so there are two instances of obfuscation.
This is a good reason why the NRSV is one of the very best translations. The WEB is singularly translated from the ASV, which was used by the JWs. The RSV is outdated and replaced by the NRSV.
Most mainstream denominations, as well as Bible scholars, use and endorse the use of, the NRSV.

All of that aside, there is no Biblical Hebrew or Greek word that transliterates to “homosexual.” The use of that word in translation always represents a compromise, and, in my view, usually a compromise of bias.

You certainly do not verify things before you make false claims, and thus your credibility is diminished in my eyes. If you want to verify if the Jewish Bibles I've copied and posted accurately from, here are the links. Go to 1Corinthians 6:9

Read The Orthodox Jewish Bible Online - Free OJB Bible - SermonCentral.com

Read the The Complete Jewish Bible Free Online

This is my last comment to you as I regret I no longer have faith in you as an honest partner in these exchanges. God bless.

 

[sojourner]

You certainly do not verify things before you make false claims, and thus your credibility is diminished in my eyes. If you want to verify if the Jewish Bibles I've copied and posted accurately from, here are the links. Go to 1Corinthians 6:9

Read The Orthodox Jewish Bible Online - Free OJB Bible - SermonCentral.com

Read the The Complete Jewish Bible Free Online

This is my last comment to you as I regret I no longer have faith in you as an honest partner in these exchanges. God bless.

Oh, I see. So you’ve compiled a list of stuff that’s not mainstream in order to “prove” your point, including something translated by an electrical engineer, a translation used by JWS, and a couple of Messianic Jewish sources. None of these is in the mainstream. The Jewish Bibles are produced with the agenda of using Jewish cultural idioms in the translations (by their own admission), even though the NT books are written in Greek, for mainly Gentile audiences. And you expect these to be superior to the NRSV???

Just who is losing credibility here? You just don’t like it because you know you don’t really have a case.

 

[pearl]

All of that aside, there is no Biblical Hebrew or Greek word that transliterates to “homosexual.” The use of that word in translation always represents a compromise, and, in my view, usually a compromise of bias.

From the NABRE; The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys.

 

[Rival]

You certainly do not verify things before you make false claims, and thus your credibility is diminished in my eyes. If you want to verify if the Jewish Bibles I've copied and posted accurately from, here are the links. Go to 1Corinthians 6:9

Read The Orthodox Jewish Bible Online - Free OJB Bible - SermonCentral.com

Read the The Complete Jewish Bible Free Online

This is my last comment to you as I regret I no longer have faith in you as an honest partner in these exchanges. God bless.

Jewish Bibles by definition don't include the NT, so there's misleading from the start.

 

[sojourner]

From the NABRE; The Greek word translated as boy prostitutes may refer to catamites, i.e., boys or young men who were kept for purposes of prostitution, a practice not uncommon in the Greco-Roman world. In Greek mythology this was the function of Ganymede, the “cupbearer of the gods,” whose Latin name was Catamitus. The term translated sodomites refers to adult males who indulged in homosexual practices with such boys.

Thank you.

 

[sojourner]

Jewish Bibles by definition don't include the NT, so there's misleading from the start.

Jewish Bibles by definition don't include the NT, so there's misleading from the start.

Well, I discovered that these aren’t Jewish Bibles. They’re Messianic Jewish Bibles, whose sole purpose is to place the translations (even the Greek ones) in idiomatic Jewish, in order to make them more culturally Jewish. This puts a theological bias on the translation — especially since priority is placed on idiom, rather than on correct transliteration. These Bibles are certainly not in the mainstream, so the poster is using these “fringe” examples in order to show that “reputable Bibles translate the Greek term as “homosexual.”

However, I pointed out the NRSV, which does not do that.

I checked the Leviticus 18 reference with the Oxford Jewish Study Bible. In the notes, it says that that the injunction is concerned specifically with “non-procreative sex.” The passage isn’t concerned with homosexuality, but with procreation. Therefore, the “moral lesson” would be for anyone who uses birth control — not for people who are homosexual.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I'm following from @Vouthon's thread which seems to be going in a different direction.

I saw on there some folks saying that essentially homosexual kin should be let go of. I first would like to know how Christians accord this with 'forgive seventy times seven' and eating with sinners and so on, and second how could any person, in his heart, disown a brother or sister or whoever, or a friend, for this? One can disagree with the behaviour, or one can repudiate the person, but I don't think this is an issue like murder or rape, by any means. In every other area of his life he could be a stellar person, a model student, a great giver, a considerate worker, but you're going to kick him out because he fell in love with another boy?

Could you find it in yourself to disown someone over this? Some of your friends may be closeted, some may be out, some may be your brothers or sisters.

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

Anyone who disowns or abandons family members or friends for being LGBT had let religion brain wash them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, I discovered that these aren’t Jewish Bibles. They’re Messianic Jewish Bibles, whose sole purpose is to place the translations (even the Greek ones) in idiomatic Jewish, in order to make them more culturally Jewish. This puts a theological bias on the translation — especially since priority is placed on idiom, rather than on correct transliteration. These Bibles are certainly not in the mainstream, so the poster is using these “fringe” examples in order to show that “reputable Bibles translate the Greek term as “homosexual.”

However, I pointed out the NRSV, which does not do that.

I checked the Leviticus 18 reference with the Oxford Jewish Study Bible. In the notes, it says that that the injunction is concerned specifically with “non-procreative sex.” The passage isn’t concerned with homosexuality, but with procreation. Therefore, the “moral lesson” would be for anyone who uses birth control — not for people who are homosexual.

The one I saw was basically the KJV with a different title.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Jewish Bibles by definition don't include the NT, so there's misleading from the start.

Ignorance is bliss....I drop by for hopefully my last comment on this thread to enlighten you.

Messianic Judaism, these folk are Jewish!

The Illustrated Hebrew & English Jerusalem Family Bible - Bible Society in Israel

Hebrew & English Bible – NASB – Hardcover / Leather / Leather & Zipper - Bible Society in Israel

New Illustrated Bible of Jerusalem (NASB) - Bible Society in Israel

 

[Rival]

Ignorance is bliss....I drop by for hopefully my last comment on this thread to enlighten you.

Messianic Judaism, these folk are Jewish!

The Illustrated Hebrew & English Jerusalem Family Bible - Bible Society in Israel

Hebrew & English Bible – NASB – Hardcover / Leather / Leather & Zipper - Bible Society in Israel

New Illustrated Bible of Jerusalem (NASB) - Bible Society in Israel

They're Christians.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

They're Christians.

Duh! Who would've thought?

 

[Rival]

Duh! Who would've thought?

Great, so we agree they're not Jews. Glad we cleared that up and you agree that these """Jewish Bibles""" are Christian manipulations.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Great, so we agree they're not Jews. Glad we cleared that up and you agree that these """Jewish Bibles""" are Christian manipulations.

But they are Jews, they are not gentiles.

And guess what, this may come as some surprise but not only do these Jews have the cheek to follow Jesus Christ, but the Jews of the time of Jesus Christ did also.

Fyi, Christ Jesus was a Jew.