Homosexuality

[BilliardsBall]

In Genesis, the earth is described as disc-shaped, with the sky being a rigid bowl sitting over it.

No.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In my profession I have dealt with many who identify as homosexual. Most of them report no such trauma. What they DO report is trauma that comes in the form of systemic violence against them for their sexual identity: people insisting that they’re “sinful” or “broken” or “sick” somehow — people who exhibit faux concern by trying to “fix” them. It’s all dehumanization.

I appreciate your desire to help the hurting. But I didn't ask you who self-identified past traumas. I'm rather saying that since asking about past trauma--and this goes back many years, every homosexual I've spoken to has had that past imprinting.

Bear in mind that we are on a scale, of course. I'm talking about people who've never had sex with the opposite gender or been able to when closeted, etc. Sexual imprinting is true in the animal kingdom.

 

[BilliardsBall]

"Counseled" or tortured?

Counseled. I don't torture people.

I'm talking from my own experience. Having someone say to me in a church counseling session, "My friend is struggling with gay behavior . . . " and I respond (paraphrasing here) "early indoctrination in pre-pubescence or broken relationship with the same sex parent" and they say, "Okay, it's me. How did you know?"

 

[BilliardsBall]

The Earth isn't a sphere/circle, and the Bible doesn't describe the Earth as being in a vacuum. Saying it exist in a void would be in accurate as space itself is not a void.

You did just that though. Just like when they went from YEC to ID.

I'm aware that the Earth is not a perfect sphere, and that ancient Hebrew had a word for sphere.

I'm aware that there are particles and rays in space, and that the lay understanding is vacuum, and that God speaks universally.

I don't shame people in counseling. I help them.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Counseled. I don't torture people.

I don't believe you.

I'm talking from my own experience. Having someone say to me in a church counseling session, "My friend is struggling with gay behavior . . . " and I respond (paraphrasing here) "early indoctrination in pre-pubescence or broken relationship with the same sex parent" and they say, "Okay, it's me. How did you know?"

Describing homosexuality as a "behaviour" that a person "struggles with" is a big red flag that you don't know what you're talking about.

... regardless of how many LGBTQ people you've victimized.

 

[sojourner]

No.

Ha! Yes. The word translated as “sky” is Raqiya. It literally means, “a hammered-out bowl.” One “hammers out” some rigid material. In order for the resulting bowl to cover the face of the earth, the face of the earth would necessarily have to be disc-shaped. That’s what it says; that’s what it means; that’s how the ancients understood it, due to lack of science. In the same way they misunderstood human sexuality, due to lack of science.

 

[sojourner]

I appreciate your desire to help the hurting. But I didn't ask you who self-identified past traumas. I'm rather saying that since asking about past trauma--and this goes back many years, every homosexual I've spoken to has had that past imprinting.

Bear in mind that we are on a scale, of course. I'm talking about people who've never had sex with the opposite gender or been able to when closeted, etc. Sexual imprinting is true in the animal kingdom.

And I’m saying that most of the folks I’ve talked to didn’t have any past trauma.

 

[Rival]

Ha! Yes. The word translated as “sky” is Raqiya. It literally means, “a hammered-out bowl.” One “hammers out” some rigid material. In order for the resulting bowl to cover the face of the earth, the face of the earth would necessarily have to be disc-shaped. That’s what it says; that’s what it means; that’s how the ancients understood it, due to lack of science. In the same way they misunderstood human sexuality, due to lack of science.

It means 'expanse' though, as well, and this is reflected in many translations. It's in the metaphoric sense of something hammered out very flat and broad, i.e., expansive. I'm not sure this actually means that folks thought the sky is solid. I read a really good paper on this about dome cosmology not being as sure as some think,

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3130&context=auss

 

[pearl]

I think what is being denied is that people who perform with both sexes are bisexual,

I do not deny the reality of bisexuality, only that in an enclosed, enforced artificial environment not all remain bisexual upon returning to normal life.

 

[Rival]

I do not deny the reality of bisexuality, only that in an enclosed, enforced artificial environment not all remain bisexual upon returning to normal life.

Situational sexuality.

It reflects the beliefs prior to the conception of heterosexuality/homosexuality/bisexuality that human sexuality was fluid in everyone given different contexts, and focused on acts rather than desire/sexuality.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I appreciate your desire to help the hurting. But I didn't ask you who self-identified past traumas. I'm rather saying that since asking about past trauma--and this goes back many years, every homosexual I've spoken to has had that past imprinting.

Stockholm Syndrome is a hell of a drug.

Edit: and seeing how "every homosexual you've spoken to" is necessarily someone who, despite your hateful rhetoric, stuck around long enough to have a conversation, I don't think you've got a representative sample of LGBTQ people generally.

 

[sojourner]

It means 'expanse' though, as well, and this is reflected in many translations. It's in the metaphoric sense of something hammered out very flat and broad, i.e., expansive. I'm not sure this actually means that folks thought they sky is solid. I read a really good paper on this about dome cosmology not being as sure as some think,

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3130&context=auss

I get it. But Andrews is the Seventh Day Adventist seminary — not accredited by the internationally-recognized ATS. SDA is a fringe group, whose theological integrity is not in the mainstream. My information comes from several qualified and peer-reviewed Hebrew scholars and reference works who all say that raqiya is an “expanse” (originally a bowl) that is considered to be rigid.

 

[Left Coast]

I appreciate your desire to help the hurting. But I didn't ask you who self-identified past traumas. I'm rather saying that since asking about past trauma--and this goes back many years, every homosexual I've spoken to has had that past imprinting.

That is no longer true.

Hi.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm aware that the Earth is not a perfect sphere, and that ancient Hebrew had a word for sphere.

I'm aware that there are particles and rays in space, and that the lay understanding is vacuum, and that God speaks universally.

Inaccuracies are inexcusable when it's supposed to be the word of god.
And that's not what a vacuum is. It's not a void is. You probably want to learn these things before making claims about them.

I don't shame people in counseling. I help them.

When you're telling them being gay is wrong you are shaming them and not helping.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....as strongly as you hate on gay people.

What?
Did I say “I hate” anyone? Nope.
Not agreeing with people’s lifestyles, doesn’t mean I hate them. Far from it.

So my question stands: when are you going to repent?

I ask for forgiveness everyday.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Not with regard to homosexuality. It’s only “quite clear” to those unwilling to do the required exegetical work and accept that what it says is vague at best.

So, “the required exegetical work” results in making what the Bible says, “vague at best.”?!
That makes no sense. You offer nothing, except confusion.
(If, after exegetical work, the texts are “vague at best”, why is exegesis “required”? Why bother?)
Your words dishonor the Bible.
The Bible talks about those who would, you know.
(I’m seeing a pattern here. Lol)

 

[rational experiences]

Consciousness human first.

Natural memory is everyone.

We aren't the parent. They were balanced mutual yet two different human types.

Pretty basic human advice.

If a man thinks he was given the wrong body and a woman says the same then as a human either of the bodies has a penis or vagina. Sometimes both sexual organs...
then life says it changed.

Basic I don't need a science degree human advice. To realise.

One state....
thinking in human life changed. As biology is sexually conceived.

Science theisms. To think. Then machine caused irradiations.

As natural life was natural first. As was thinking natural. Memory parents were living spiritual.

Innate awareness says. Criminal mind introduced. Murdering mind introduced. Adulterer mind man chose sex for two first then sex again.

Changed sex act.

Men chose sex with young girls after changed then young children.

Because of the scientist theist satanisms. Causes effects mind change.

So we imposed a teaching about how science evils caused change.

Was never any innocent sexually conceived babies fault. Also stated.

The fault is a satanist scientist only life body biology mind change.

Who as a scientist is mind changed by all Introduced minds he changed so he thinks very wierdly today. Linked to mans owned science mind first.

Believes in it. Wants minds controlled by machines and by computer programs. Is the destroyer of life and conscious behaviours. By human choices only.

He knows he is wrong every human knows he is wrong also. Consciousness natural human says so. Is first.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

It means 'expanse' though, as well, and this is reflected in many translations. It's in the metaphoric sense of something hammered out very flat and broad, i.e., expansive. I'm not sure this actually means that folks thought the sky is solid. I read a really good paper on this about dome cosmology not being as sure as some think,

https://digitalcommons.andrews.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3130&context=auss

Rival, thanks for posting that link! I read it too, quite a while back, but couldn’t ever find it….so thanks again.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What?
Did I say “I hate” anyone? Nope.
Not agreeing with people’s lifestyles, doesn’t mean I hate them. Far from it.

Sure.

I ask for forgiveness everyday.

You ask for forgiveness for failing to follow someone else's religion?

 

[sojourner]

So, “the required exegetical work” results in making what the Bible says, “vague at best.”?!
That makes no sense. You offer nothing, except confusion.
(If, after exegetical work, the texts are “vague at best”, why is exegesis “required”? Why bother?)
Your words dishonor the Bible.
The Bible talks about those who would, you know.
(I’m seeing a pattern here. Lol)

You misrepresented (or misunderstood) what I was getting at. You said the references with regard to homosexuality were “quite clear.” However, an exegetical study reveals that they are, in fact, not clear at all. Exegesis doesn’t “make” things unclear. It does uncover what is inherently unclear, given the time frame, the differences in language and culture, and the literary nature of the writings, the intended audiences and the authorship. What an exegesis reveals with clarity in this case, is that the texts are not talking about homosexuality, as it is referenced in our culture. It is not clear as to what specific acts are being referenced. We can extrapolate what is likely being referenced, and none of them likely are an expression of loving, consensual, and committed relationships. Therefore, the other alternative is that they are referencing acts of animal lust, or violence. Therefore, we must assume that it’s the lust and violence that are contraindicated, and not the expression of same-sex attraction.

To answer your other question, we “bother” with exegesis because it results in a much clearer interpretation of what the authors meant to say. Otherwise, we simply go off half-cocked in formulating theologies and doctrines, based on a cursory and often misunderstood reading of the texts. But you’ll disagree with this, because you all excel at doing that very thing.