Homosexuality

[Rival]

But they are Jews, they are not gentiles.

And guess what, this may come as some surprise but not only do these Jews have the cheek to follow Jesus Christ, but the Jews of at the time of Jesus Christ did also.

Fyi, Christ Jesus was a Jew.

Yes, I'm aware.

But when they believe in Jesus their religion is no longer Judaism, it's Christianity, so saying they are Jewish is misleading as that word has a defined meaning now.

Jew is as much an ethnicity as a religion, but when they believe in Jesus they lose their right to call themselves religiously Jewish. And guess what? The Jewish religion has no NT. So these """Jewish""" Bibles are simply Christian Bibles.

And most 'messianic Jews' are actually non-Jews.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes, I'm aware.

But when they believe in Jesus their religion is no longer Judaism, it's Christianity, so saying they are Jewish is misleading as that word has a defined meaning now.

Jew is as much an ethnicity as a religion, but when they believe in Jesus they lose their right to call themselves religiously Jewish. And guess what? The Jewish religion has no NT. So these """Jewish""" Bibles are simply Christian Bibles.

And most 'messianic Jews' are actually non-Jews.

I only commented because you replied to my post which showed your ignorance concerning the existence of a Hebrew Bible that contains the New Testament. That mission has been accomplished, all the best to you.

 

[Rival]

I only commented because you replied to my post which showed your ignorance concerning the existence of a Hebrew Bible that contains the New Testament. That mission has been accomplished, all the best to you.

Yes, the Hebrew Bible that contains the NT is known generally as 'the Bible'.

Jewish ones are called the Tanakh, to differentiate. There is no NT in them ever.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Rival, if someone is inclined toward an act that God disapproves of, what should that person do?

If one is a cleptomaniac, what should that person do?

Give in and do it, or fight against their inclinations?

Who decides what God "disapproves of"? You?

There's no shortage of people who think that one of the things God disapproves of is your religion. When are you going to repent and leave it? Are you going to fight your inclinations or give in?

 

[BilliardsBall]

That’s not what statistics and experts claim.

Enhance your own statistics and knowledge base. Nearly 100% of homosexuals I've counseled identified as imprinted in their youth by an abuser and/or had a broken relationship with a same sex parent/guardian. When I heard that could be the pathology from experts, I verified and ever since.

 

[BilliardsBall]

A heterosexual man in prison who commits rape is not bisexual, he is a heterosexual pervert committing a crime of rape driven by power over another.

Interesting. Do you believe we are all on scale somewhere of sexual orientation and desire? If a man can be aroused an acheive orgasm with another man, you say he is a "pervert" but not a bisexual person?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Changing the name doesn't change the outcome.

1) I don't just change the name, I change the approach, instead of humiliating and shaming the person (conversion "therapy", I address the past issues, "restoration"). The outcomes are different, too!

 

[BilliardsBall]

It describes the Earth as fixed and flat.

If you take "pillars" as corners and not "leaders, people", sure.

The Bible also describes the Earth as a sphere inside a vacuum/void, but skeptics cherry pick always with the Bible.

 

[pearl]

Interesting. Do you believe we are all on scale somewhere of sexual orientation and desire? If a man can be aroused an acheive orgasm with another man, you say he is a "pervert" but not a bisexual person?

Regarding the prison example you gave, most of these will return to their heterosexual lifestyle. I said it is the heterosexual who is the pervert. Even with the more acceptance of homosexuals there continue to be some men who cannot or refuse to accept that lifestyle because of the public negativity or their own unwillingness, maybe due to conscience and fear, marry the opposite sex, raise a family in the attempt to deny their sexual humanity.

 

[sojourner]

Ignorance is bliss....I drop by for hopefully my last comment on this thread to enlighten you.

Messianic Judaism, these folk are Jewish!

The Illustrated Hebrew & English Jerusalem Family Bible - Bible Society in Israel

Hebrew & English Bible – NASB – Hardcover / Leather / Leather & Zipper - Bible Society in Israel

New Illustrated Bible of Jerusalem (NASB) - Bible Society in Israel

Not really. They’re certainly not in the mainstream, and the publications you offered as examples are biased in their translations, so not very good examples at all.

 

[sojourner]

But they are Jews, they are not gentiles.

And guess what, this may come as some surprise but not only do these Jews have the cheek to follow Jesus Christ, but the Jews of the time of Jesus Christ did also.

Fyi, Christ Jesus was a Jew.

None of this is germane to the topic, which is that the word “homosexual” does not appear in any Hebrew or Greek source texts, because there was no Greek or Hebrew word for “homosexuality.” Why place a word that’s, by definition, incorrect?

 

[sojourner]

If you take "pillars" as corners and not "leaders, people", sure.

The Bible also describes the Earth as a sphere inside a vacuum/void, but skeptics cherry pick always with the Bible.

In Genesis, the earth is described as disc-shaped, with the sky being a rigid bowl sitting over it.

 

[sojourner]

Enhance your own statistics and knowledge base. Nearly 100% of homosexuals I've counseled identified as imprinted in their youth by an abuser and/or had a broken relationship with a same sex parent/guardian. When I heard that could be the pathology from experts, I verified and ever since.

In my profession I have dealt with many who identify as homosexual. Most of them report no such trauma. What they DO report is trauma that comes in the form of systemic violence against them for their sexual identity: people insisting that they’re “sinful” or “broken” or “sick” somehow — people who exhibit faux concern by trying to “fix” them. It’s all dehumanization.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Enhance your own statistics and knowledge base. Nearly 100% of homosexuals I've counseled identified as imprinted in their youth by an abuser and/or had a broken relationship with a same sex parent/guardian. When I heard that could be the pathology from experts, I verified and ever since.

"Counseled" or tortured?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

And I do know that Jehovah has been terrible for many, such as those of the LGBT community.

...queers who try to appease Jehovah.

....Christians....

First of all, 98% of professed Christian institutions or groups don’t even claim to worship Jehovah; they worship some unknowable trinity, or just Jesus. The record shows their treatment toward others — even among themselves — has been horrendous.
They don’t accurately reflect Jehovah’s loving qualities that result from having His spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), nor His Son, Jesus. John 13:34; Matthew 5:44

Severe depression, terrible anxiety, low self esteem, lack of confidence, suicide,.....

And all who have innocently suffered these injustices, will experience Jehovah God’s love & mercy when they are resurrected. At that time, after the issues of sovereignty raised in Genesis 3 have been settled.

Who decides what God "disapproves of"? You?

Now, you know the answer I’m going to give: the Bible. It’s quite clear in revealing what behaviors Jehovah approves of, and doesn’t approve of!
This world makes it a challenge to live by those standards….but IMO it’s worth it!

There's no shortage of people who think that one of the things God disapproves of is your religion. When are you going to repent and leave it? Are you going to fight your inclinations or give in?

Just show me aspects regarding either behaviors or tenets in which our way of worship is faulty — from the Scriptures, of course — and I’ll give it consideration.
No one ever has, to my satisfaction.
IMO, the worship of Jehovah is superlative.

Wish you both well, my cousins

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Now, you know the answer I’m going to give: the Bible. It’s quite clear in revealing what behaviors Jehovah approves of, and doesn’t approve of!

Indeed.

I remember a while back on the ONRAC podcast: one of the hosts asked "what would Jesus do?" Without missing a beat, the other host said "hate figs?"

That being said, I'm not sure what scripture - i.e. a collection of words put into the mouth of God - has to do with any actual opinions of any gods.

This world makes it a challenge to live by those standards….but IMO it’s worth it!

Just show me aspects regarding either behaviors or tenets in which our way of worship is faulty — from the Scriptures, of course — and I’ll give it consideration.
No one ever has, to my satisfaction.
IMO, the worship of Jehovah is superlative.

It seems you jumped to a number of conclusions I don't agree with.

The question of whether the arbitrary doctrines of your particular denomination has absolutely no bearing on whether the arbitrary - but also internally consistent - doctrines of some other denomination or religion hates on JWs just as strongly as you hate on gay people.

So my question stands: when are you going to repent? (Since failing to follow the tenets of someone else's religion is apparently something you think warrants repentance)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

First of all, 98% of professed Christian institutions or groups don’t even claim to worship Jehovah; they worship some unknowable trinity, or just Jesus. The record shows their treatment toward others — even among themselves — has been horrendous.
They don’t accurately reflect Jehovah’s loving qualities that result from having His spirit (Galatians 5:22-23), nor His Son, Jesus. John 13:34; Matthew 5:44

I did mention a part where Christians keep dismissing and downplaying the issue. It would do them good to start listening, but they just won't.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you take "pillars" as corners and not "leaders, people", sure.

The Bible also describes the Earth as a sphere inside a vacuum/void, but skeptics cherry pick always with the Bible.

The Earth isn't a sphere/circle, and the Bible doesn't describe the Earth as being in a vacuum. Saying it exist in a void would be in accurate as space itself is not a void.

1) I don't just change the name, I change the approach, instead of humiliating and shaming the person (conversion "therapy", I address the past issues, "restoration"). The outcomes are different, too!

You did just that though. Just like when they went from YEC to ID.

 

[sojourner]

First of all, 98% of professed Christian institutions or groups don’t even claim to worship Jehovah;

That’s correct. We don’t worship some made-up, glommed together name. We worship God.

Now, you know the answer I’m going to give: the Bible. It’s quite clear in revealing what behaviors Jehovah approves of, and doesn’t approve of!

Not with regard to homosexuality. It’s only “quite clear” to those unwilling to do the required exegetical work and accept that what it says is vague at best.

This world makes it a challenge to live by those standards

And you are part of that “world” that makes it difficult to be who God created some to be.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Regarding the prison example you gave, most of these will return to their heterosexual lifestyle. I said it is the heterosexual who is the pervert. Even with the more acceptance of homosexuals there continue to be some men who cannot or refuse to accept that lifestyle because of the public negativity or their own unwillingness, maybe due to conscience and fear, marry the opposite sex, raise a family in the attempt to deny their sexual humanity.

I think what is being denied is that people who perform with both sexes are bisexual, regardless of how they identify. I identify as a first class passenger but have to ride in coach!