Homosexuality

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If you are looking for a straight answer, I will only tell you what the religions say.

The city of sodom and gomorah was completely destroyed....the Creator detested it. If you want someone to think you deserve the right to not be disowned, that is up to them. It's also between you and your Creator and you already know what that is.

Funny how God doesn’t mention this when Lot decided to move there.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If it is FOR ME, I would say, I would not be in that situation. I am very religious and I try to do by what my Creator wants. If you are sayin, that I was to be a homosexual and that happen. Well, I wouldn't be one.

Would you disown a kid for wearing cotton/wool shirts? “God’s Word” also said it’s an abomination. You would think rape and genocide and slavery would be, but no — God will hate you for fashion’s sake.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Second, the etiology of homosexuality has not been found to have a biological basis.
Science is looking, believe me! Because it’s quite an issue.

I don’t think they’ll find one….from a scientific standpoint why would evolution, whose sole purpose is to pass on genes, mutate one that would defeat that purpose?

I can't remember if I already posted this here or in another thread but:

Evolution is a population study, not an individual one. There are many survival strategies in social species where not every individual breeds, where non-breeding members of the society preform other functions that lead to group health(gathering, guarding, nurturing uninterrupted so the primary breeders can carry on breeding uninterrupted). Including members who only engage in same-sex coupling, which exists in many species outside humans, from birds to primates.

Secondly, I highly doubt there is any such thing as a 'gay gene' (ditto 'pink brains for girls. Blue brains for boys') because homosexuality encompasses a dynamic series of traits and there is no instance of genes covering such broad systemic and behavioral change. Even genetics for aggressive tendency is a gene series plus a lot of other qualifying non-genetic indicators.

But genes aren't the only biological process that make up who we are. And anyone with an abnormal hormone condition could tell you how it radically effects your life and self-expression without ever being genetic. And that's just one example.

But none of that really matters either because 'nature vs nurture' is overly simplistic, creating a bright white line between the two that doesn't exist and setting up 'nature' as the preferred option when many times it is not. 'Natural' doesn't mean 'good' and 'unnatural' doesn't mean bad.

Finally, 'I can't help being what I am' has never stopped other discriminators from bigotry against those persons (eg racism, sexism, et all.) So why would we think any homophobes would be changed with biological science when that's not the reason for their homophobia in the first place?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

They were looking like ordinary men.

I can’t take seriously the idea that angels were in any real danger.

 

[Yerda]

Is this the way forward? I disagree massively with what the LGBT movement has done and become and I do not own any of that. But that is not what I'm talking about.

My girlfriend has a gay friend who is catholic. He's against gay marriage.

It confused the hell out of me when I heard this. But I do respect that he holds a belief without shame even if it confuses people like me (and angers others).

I'm not sure how relevant this is to your thread. I guess that I'm saying it's ok to not agree with any movement (or any particular common position of the movement) that goes against your beliefs as long as you aren't being cruel to anyone or advocating bigotry.

 

[sojourner]

I was referring to chûgh and not raqiya as used in the scriptures, a child's plaything also in the lexicon--children play with balls and not "rounds" or "bowls" unless they are playing house or hula hoop.

But the word is raqiya. And it’s meaning is “a hammered-out bowl.”

 

[night912]

I'd never counsel/have never counseled "pray away the gay". I've had people come to me who are unhappy and we work to reconcile past trauma. When that healing comes, reconciliation comes.

What you've said in the paragraph following immediately after this one, clearly demonstrate that you have counseled people to "pray away the gay".

In the same vein, I've had gay people ask if I'm asking them to change their orientation before conversion, and my main response has been consistently, "Straight people go to Hell also. Trust Jesus for salvation, then your new Father will work with you directly on all life issues including sexuality."

During the time of stress and/or being unhappy with something in their life, people can easily be deceived. And those who are not in that state of mind, deception can easily be seen.

 

[Birdnest]

Would you disown a kid for wearing cotton/wool shirts? “God’s Word” also said it’s an abomination. You would think rape and genocide and slavery would be, but no — God will hate you for fashion’s sake.

You two are talking about different religions.

Mothers dress their children. They're the first ones to be blamed for what their children wear. Usually punishments aren't applied to children, though the OT might, it's very harsh, but since no one is willing to abide by it, what does it matter?

 

[Birdnest]

I can’t take seriously the idea that angels were in any real danger.

Who said they were?

 

[Rival]

You two are talking about different religions.

Mothers dress their children. They're the first ones to be blamed for what their children wear. Usually punishments aren't applied to children, though the OT might, it's very harsh, but since no one is willing to abide by it, what does it matter?

Um, the Jews still observe shatnez.

 

[MyM]

Would you disown a kid for wearing cotton/wool shirts? “God’s Word” also said it’s an abomination. You would think rape and genocide and slavery would be, but no — God will hate you for fashion’s sake.

You are quoting the Bibles? That's not in Islam.

 

[MyM]

I can’t take seriously the idea that angels were in any real danger.

Seriously they weren't. But the evilness of the men were a threat to the household as it says in the Bible.

 

[BilliardsBall]

But the word is raqiya. And it’s meaning is “a hammered-out bowl.”

What scriptures say raqiya? I was looking at Isaiah and Job.

And a hammered out bowl is how God describes pouring judgment on the world (Revelation).

 

[BilliardsBall]

What you've said in the paragraph following immediately after this one, clearly demonstrate that you have counseled people to "pray away the gay".


During the time of stress and/or being unhappy with something in their life, people can easily be deceived. And those who are not in that state of mind, deception can easily be seen.

Huh? You can't pray away the gay unless you deal with the roots. The roots are not "how I was born" the roots are past trauma.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Well, that you can do yourself. In Islam, everyone is born according to their natural disposition. Maybe some have more of a different hormone or not, but they are not born gay in Islam.

Many people believe otherwise but they have no proof and they have their own reasons to disbelieve that and they are welcomed to them.

No one is born in Islam. That Islam is not current in knowledge is not my problem.

 

[MyM]

No one is born in Islam. That Islam is not current in knowledge is not my problem.

In Islam, that is what we believe. We believe everyone is born upon their natural state and that is belief in One God.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Huh? You can't pray away the gay unless you deal with the roots. The roots are not "how I was born" the roots are past trauma.

That's not the cause of it. It happens during gestation. Even Exodus apologized for doing harm to gay people. The leaders of it are gay themselves.

 

[BilliardsBall]

That's not the cause of it. It happens during gestation. Even Exodus apologized for doing harm to gay people. The leaders of it are gay themselves.

There is no genetic proof it happens during gestation.

The leaders of Exodus took the wrong tack in dealing with the issue, then caused more harm with their apologies.

 

[Sand Dancer]

There is no genetic proof it happens during gestation.

The leaders of Exodus took the wrong tack in dealing with the issue, then caused more harm with their apologies.

It's not genetic, it has to do with the mother's hormone levels during pregnancy. Why would telling people they were wrong cause harm?

 

[BilliardsBall]

It's not genetic, it has to do with the mother's hormone levels during pregnancy. Why would telling people they were wrong cause harm?

Nor is that proven. All that has been proven--which is also a biblical concept--is that people who are more libidinous will reach out to alternative sex opportunities--adultery and homosexual practice.

Telling people their wrong has to do with honesty. Should teachers never tell students they're wrong?