Homosexuality

[Sand Dancer]

Nor is that proven. All that has been proven--which is also a biblical concept--is that people who are more libidinous will reach out to alternative sex opportunities--adultery and homosexual practice.

Telling people their wrong has to do with honesty. Should teachers never tell students they're wrong?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I think this guarantee of freedom from discrimination should also apply to the “sin” of being unvaccinated. But now it seems that many have the attitude that it’s okay to discriminate against those people.

Because it's a matter of public health. Your personal freedom stops the second it affects others.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thank you for your reply, InChrist. I agree with you that the unvaccinated sr houldn't be discriminated against. My attitude towards the vaccines have changed since I tested positive for Covid, despite being fully vaccinated. My husband, our 16-year-old daughter, my nephew and his wife, my three great-nieces, my aunt, and a couple of my cousins all tested positive for Covid after being fully vaccinated, as well. A lady at my husband's church told him that she knows several people who tested positive for Covid and they're all fully vaccinated. I tested negative for Covid yesterday, but I feel sick and weak, and it's been three weeks since I tested positive.

Maybe you should learn about how vaccines work.
Vaccines don't prevent infection. They never have.
What they do instead, is learn your body / immune system to fight the virus in advance.
So that when you do get infected, your immune system can come into action quickly before the virus replicates like crazy and makes you very sick.

So, it provides your body with the ability to fight the virus more efficiently and thus with less symptoms and less chances for the virus to destroy your lungs (in this case) and / or even kill you.

If you were fully vaccinated and still had a harsh run with covid, then chances are that if you wouldn't have been vaccinated, that you would have ended up in the ICU instead (or worse).

Just thought I'ld point this out.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't know much about homosexuality. Never claimed I did, I was just giving out the religious instances. I do know, that if our Creator said it is wrong, then it is wrong. Perhaps more hormones than the other, I don't know...could be hormonal imbalances. But I am not debating on what i know, since I am not in that position.

In other words, you argue from willful ignorance and just blindly follow things about which you proudly state to know nothing about.

Wonderful.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Thats a whole different matter. Lets say you find flaws in all scripture, as a given. A fact. Still, that cannot deem the absence of a God. That is a whole different concept and subject.

Do you agree?

That might have something to do with gods being defined in unfalsifiable ways.

Obviously, it's going to be a bit hard to disprove an unfalsifiable thing.

Off course, unfalsifiable entities are infinite in number, only limited by ones imagination.
They are utterly useless as concepts, as explanations, as anything whatsoever.

 

[night912]

Huh? You can't pray away the gay unless you deal with the roots. The roots are not "how I was born" the roots are past trauma.

So you weren't being truthful when you said............

I'd never counsel/have never counseled "pray away the gay".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Because it's a matter of public health. Your personal freedom stops the second it affects others.

Yup. The evidence is clear and all around and very concise, but they still want to endanger others and call it a right. That isn't how it works.

 

[BilliardsBall]

So you weren't being truthful when you said............

The world thinks ALL such counseling is "pray away the gay" which is equivalent to "do this in YOUR strength, not the strength of Jesus Christ."

AFTER you deal with the roots (repentance, healing) you talk to God who will counsel you/change you.

I don't NEED to ever tell anyone "pray away the gay" since THEY are coming to me since THEY already TRIED to pray away the gay. Once we cut the roots out/heal them, they change.

 

[night912]

I don't NEED to ever tell anyone "pray away the gay"

And I'm pretty sure that you don't tell them to "pray away the gay," that's why I never said that you did. That saying has a bad reputation, so if you want someone to "pray away the gay," obviously those words won't be spoken to them. That's where the deception comes in, so that you are technically only counseling them to "pray away the gay."

That's why I quoted you when you said this,

"I'd never counsel/have never counseled "pray away the gay"."

You've demonstrated that your statement above is false.

AFTER you deal with the roots (repentance, healing) you talk to God who will counsel you/change you.

In other words, you pray to god so that he can "take away the gay."

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Huh? You can't pray away the gay unless you deal with the roots. The roots are not "how I was born" the roots are past trauma.

In the real mental health field we call that a faith-based claim because it is not rooted in or supported by evidence. Like the fact there is no statistically significant correlation between trauma victims and homosexuality. That is what we call an evidence-based claim because it based on the evidence provided by numerous studies.
And it's still reparative therapy. It doesn't matter how you word it, it still looks and acts like reparative therapy.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In the real mental health field we call that a faith-based claim because it is not rooted in or supported by evidence. Like the fact there is no statistically significant correlation between trauma victims and homosexuality. That is what we call an evidence-based claim because it based on the evidence provided by numerous studies.
And it's still reparative therapy. It doesn't matter how you word it, it still looks and acts like reparative therapy.

No we call it "anecdotal evidence" because I can tell you about the people helped without peer review or control groups.

Exodus International, etc. used pressure tactics, peer pressure and "just buck up and try harder" which of course is harmful. Trauma is one root of homosexual behavior, so is sexual imprinting.

"When the blind lead the blind, both fall in a pit." -- Jesus

 

[BilliardsBall]

And I'm pretty sure that you don't tell them to "pray away the gay," that's why I never said that you did. That saying has a bad reputation, so if you want someone to "pray away the gay," obviously those words won't be spoken to them. That's where the deception comes in, so that you are technically only counseling them to "pray away the gay."

That's why I quoted you when you said this,

"I'd never counsel/have never counseled "pray away the gay"."

You've demonstrated that your statement above is false.


In other words, you pray to god so that he can "take away the gay."

You are being obstinate but that's okay.

If you take an ibuprofin because a cancer lesion is causing you itchiness and pain that's one thing, whereas say, chemotherapy shrinks the tumor.

I've had people come to me saying THEY are trying to pray to get better, without my input, and then when we deal together with past trauma, they self-report that their homosexual desires decrease and their heterosexual desire awakens.

Now, not everyone is the same, I've also met folks who lost their homosexual desire overnight after deliverance ministry--demons that were afflicting them were cast away from them.

Since you attack me for semantics I can hardly imagine you'll be thrilled to hear gay people became straight after exorcisms but . . . there it is. My God is an awesome God of power, love and healing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No we call it "anecdotal evidence" because I can tell you about the people helped without peer review or control groups.

Exodus International, etc. used pressure tactics, peer pressure and "just buck up and try harder" which of course is harmful. Trauma is one root of homosexual behavior, so is sexual imprinting.

"When the blind lead the blind, both fall in a pit." -- Jesus

Anecdotal evidence isn't what medical research is based on. If it was good enough we could just give out placebos and rely on folk remedies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

demons that were afflicting them were cast away from them.

As I said, "faith based claims."

I've also met folks who lost their homosexual desire overnight after deliverance ministry--demons that were afflicting them were cast away from them.

People who aren't even sensitive to gluten will report feeling better overnight. Long term results are key. Amd reparative therapy fails miserably in this area.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Anecdotal evidence isn't what medical research is based on. If it was good enough we could just give out placebos and rely on folk remedies.

Except that my anecdotes include healed, saved, happy, free people.

In the Christian world as with the skeptical world, there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks. Another example if I may? Everyone who has done ministry in certain parts of the world is no longer cessationist, they've dealt personally with exorcisms, tongues, etc.

 

[BilliardsBall]

As I said, "faith based claims."

People who aren't even sensitive to gluten will report feeling better overnight. Long term results are key. Amd reparative therapy fails miserably in this area.

If you mean, people walking out from Exodus International were unhappy after a long time, I AGREE.

Guess what? I have longtime experience with people who WERE healed and STILL do well.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Except that my anecdotes include healed, saved, happy, free people.

I have anecdotal evidence of people getting drunk on soft drinks. That doesn't mean punch will get you drunk.

In the Christian world as with the skeptical world, there are a lot of armchair quarterbacks. Another example if I may? Everyone who has done ministry in certain parts of the world is no longer cessationist, they've dealt personally with exorcisms, tongues, etc.

Is this why Mother Theresa began to doubt her god?
And, no, they've not dealt with demons.

If you mean, people walking out from Exodus International were unhappy after a long time, I AGREE.

Guess what? I have longtime experience with people who WERE healed and STILL do well.

You claim. I'll go with real science and evidence accumulated over numerous longitudinal studies.
And free? Saved? From what? Your red boogeyman?

 

[Wildswanderer]

They treat homosexuality as a special type of sin, but let those who have had sex before marriage, are divorced, liars, squabblers, etc off the hook.

Who is " they"?
Because that sounds like a pretty broad brush.

 

[Wildswanderer]

To answer the question... I would not disown my children even if they committed murder.. they are still mine and I will always love them no matter what they do.
That's not saying that I have to condone it in any way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Who is " they"?
Because that sounds like a pretty broad brush.

Christians/the Church. Like how they put gays on blast but ignore the guys who have been married multiple times.