horrors of religion

[Riverwolf]

By the way, guys, you want a lush jungle oasis in the middle of a vast, dry desert? (Translation: you want a religious leader who is actually GOOD?)

Research King Asoka.

 

[richardlowellt]

If they are not signed up to die, then why do they do it?

"It is the foremost concern of a Warrior to keep death in mind at all times."
-Taira Shigesuke, "Bushido Shoshinshu" Beginner's Way of the Warrior (Translated by Thomas Cleary as "Code of the Samurai")

It is my firm belief that even commoners like us should accept the fact that death could come at any time, and live each moment as the last. This applies even moreso to professions which involve great danger, such as being a soldier.

And no, I have never signed up for the military; I cannot, for I am frail and underweight. (Besides, I'm not a soldier; I'm an intellectual.)

Besides, cities are civilian places. It is completely dishonorable and cowardly to attack civilians, and I call the ones who ordered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki cowards and without honor. (NOT the ones who actually delivered the bomb and flew the planes carrying them; they were just following orders.)

"They are not signed up to die, then why do they do it?" Have you ever heard of the DRAFT, I was drafted I the Viet Nam war, men were drafted during the korean war. I think at this point you should probably to some reading on the history wars that the U.S. has been involved with. Had you even a little knowledge about the events that took place prior to our involvement in WW 11 you would see that many young men signed on in response to the unprovoked attack by the japanese on Pearl Harbor. With almost the entire U.S Fleet destroyed the japanese had a clear unobstructed path to the shores of America's west coast so defending this country was a big part of why they signed up.

Funny your quote is from the Japanese who were so fanatical in their fighting, they believed, religion once again, that to die in battle met a place in the afterlife, the Kamikaze's were a good example of this (Kamikaze--DIVINE WIND) The Americans knew that war met there was always the chance one could lose their lives but you never go into battle knowing you are going to die, I ca tell you that from first hand experience.

You know nothing about the history of war, civilians are always killed, this was not the kind of war were you line up in an open field and charge. You are calling one our great Presidents a coward and without honor, a President who saw a way to end an endless war, a way to save possibly millions of lives on both sides. For an Intellect you seem to be not very well read on the history of your country.

Frail and underweight are not enough to keep you from defending your country, basic training will to wonders for that kind of physique.

 

[richardlowellt]

All it takes is one very charismatic person.

You mean like Jesus Christ, Or Jim Jones, Hiro Hito perhaps.

 

[richardlowellt]

If someone who follows the will of God is supposed to be all-loving, doesn't that mean those who don't are not following the will of God at all, but their own?

Thats exactly what that means, what is your point?

 

[Storm]

"They are not signed up to die, then why do they do it?" Have you ever heard of the DRAFT, I was drafted I the Viet Nam war, men were drafted during the korean war. I think at this point you should probably to some reading on the history wars that the U.S. has been involved with. Had you even a little knowledge about the events that took place prior to our involvement in WW 11 you would see that many young men signed on in response to the unprovoked attack by the japanese on Pearl Harbor. With almost the entire U.S Fleet destroyed the japanese had a clear unobstructed path to the shores of America's west coast so defending this country was a big part of why they signed up.

Funny your quote is from the Japanese who were so fanatical in their fighting, they believed, religion once again, that to die in battle met a place in the afterlife, the Kamikaze's were a good example of this (Kamikaze--DIVINE WIND) The Americans knew that war met there was always the chance one could lose their lives but you never go into battle knowing you are going to die, I ca tell you that from first hand experience.

You know nothing about the history of war, civilians are always killed, this was not the kind of war were you line up in an open field and charge. You are calling one our great Presidents a coward and without honor, a President who saw a way to end an endless war, a way to save possibly millions of lives on both sides. For an Intellect you seem to be not very well read on the history of your country.

Dear God, we agree on something! :faint:

 

[richardlowellt]

Dear God, we agree on something! :faint:

Hope springs eternal, or something like that!

 

[Anti-thesisofreason]

You mean like Jesus Christ, Or Jim Jones, Hiro Hito perhaps.

Yep! :yes:

 

[Riverwolf]

"They are not signed up to die, then why do they do it?" Have you ever heard of the DRAFT, I was drafted I the Viet Nam war, men were drafted during the korean war. I think at this point you should probably to some reading on the history wars that the U.S. has been involved with. Had you even a little knowledge about the events that took place prior to our involvement in WW 11 you would see that many young men signed on in response to the unprovoked attack by the japanese on Pearl Harbor. With almost the entire U.S Fleet destroyed the japanese had a clear unobstructed path to the shores of America's west coast so defending this country was a big part of why they signed up.

Very good. Defending one's country from invasion is one of the few things worth fighting over. But once invasion is no longer likely, war is no longer necessary, and it's time for the diplomats to do their job. In Japan's case, helping China and Korea was also a necessity: I am fully aware of Tojo's actions. (By the way, I'm very well aware of the draft, and I call it cowardly as well... and I now have greater respect for you for having actually seen combat.)

I've also heard (I cannot provide documentation just yet) that America had blockaded the Japanese fleet from getting to China, though that was in a History class in high school, so...

I'm just glad America and Japan are buddies now. ^_^ (Good thing too; the Japanese are KAKOI!!)

Funny your quote is from the Japanese who were so fanatical in their fighting, they believed, religion once again, that to die in battle met a place in the afterlife, the Kamikaze's were a good example of this (Kamikaze--DIVINE WIND) The Americans knew that war met there was always the chance one could lose their lives but you never go into battle knowing you are going to die, I ca tell you that from first hand experience.

Yes, it's from the Japanese. (And from Feudal Japan, not WWII.) Bushido Shoshinshu NEVER spoke of ANYTHING divine or supernatural; Shigesuke-sensei seemed to believe, in fact, that death was it.

Now, here's a bit of history on the word Kamikaze (divine wind,) as clearly you are not too familiar with Japanese history. (And, for that matter, neither am I; but I do know this.) China was trying to invade Japan, but kept getting stopped by storms. The Japanese felt they were being saved by the gods, and so called these winds divine. I frankly have no idea how the word became synonymous with suicide bombing, which I do not see any honor in.

You know nothing about the history of war, civilians are always killed, this was not the kind of war were you line up in an open field and charge. You are calling one our great Presidents a coward and without honor, a President who saw a way to end an endless war, a way to save possibly millions of lives on both sides. For an Intellect you seem to be not very well read on the history of your country.

No I am not (unfortunately), but I do not care if civilians are always killed in war. It is still an act of cowardice and dishonor to bomb cities or kill civilians. I take contention not just with the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but also the fire-bombing of Tokyo. (And the Nazi bombing of London, and the Russian siege of Berlin... all equally horrible.)

(If it makes you feel better, "Lies My Teacher Told Me" and "A People's History of the United States" are in my reading list, but I haven't had time to read them yet, because I have other books.)

By the way, why did you attach the adjective "great" just before president?

Frail and underweight are not enough to keep you from defending your country, basic training will to wonders for that kind of physique.

That basic training would likely kill me as I am now.

Besides, I'm not a patriot. (Patriotism and nationalism, in my opinion, are just other manifestations of fanaticism, nationalism far more than patriotism.) I don't even acknowledge political boundaries any more than I need to. As far as I'm concerned, there's One Earth and a bunch of warring (and trading) tribes.

 

[Riverwolf]

Thats exactly what that means, what is your point?

That means there's nothing wrong with religion; the problem is just as a certain man you for no reason hate said:

"I like your Christ. But your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Translation: "Christianity is a wonderful religion. Too bad not very many people follow it." ^_^ (BTW, I know there are plenty of people who actually do follow it; he was speaking from having been spat on and kicked out of a church when he was young.)

 

[richardlowellt]

(By the way, I'm very well aware of the draft, and I call it cowardly as well... and I now have greater respect for you for having actually seen combat.)

What exactly are you calling cowardly?






Now, here's a bit of history on the word Kamikaze (divine wind,) as clearly you are not too familiar with Japanese history. (And, for that matter, neither am I; but I do know this.) China was trying to invade Japan, but kept getting stopped by storms. The Japanese felt they were being saved by the gods, and so called these winds divine. I frankly have no idea how the word became synonymous with suicide bombing, which I do not see any honor in.

And why would you think that I am not familiar with japanese history?







That basic training would likely kill me as I am now.

Besides, I'm not a patriot.

I am certainly glad you were not called on the defend this country, the word cowardly now has meaning.

 

[Riverwolf]

(By the way, I'm very well aware of the draft, and I call it cowardly as well... and I now have greater respect for you for having actually seen combat.)

What exactly are you calling cowardly?

Killing civilians.

Now, here's a bit of history on the word Kamikaze (divine wind,) as clearly you are not too familiar with Japanese history. (And, for that matter, neither am I; but I do know this.) China was trying to invade Japan, but kept getting stopped by storms. The Japanese felt they were being saved by the gods, and so called these winds divine. I frankly have no idea how the word became synonymous with suicide bombing, which I do not see any honor in.

And why would you think that I am not familiar with japanese history?

Because you sounded as if you thought "divine wind" meant you went to some paradise if you were a kamikaze pilot. I have never heard of this, however I have not done much research on history.

I am certainly glad you were not called on the defend this country, the word cowardly now has meaning.

No, not yet.

I was afraid to go outside at night without the porch light on to watch the meteor shower. NOW cowardly has new meaning. ^_^ (I still did it, and I was fine once I was out there; I'm working on not letting fear control me, and will use roller coasters to practice being perfectly calm and collected in high-energy situations.)

But yes. If I were called in to defend the country as a soldier, I would freeze up and jeopardize the lives of my squad-mates. Besides, my reflexes are horrible; I can't think all that fast. Not to mention the fact that I am a pacifist, and do not even kill bugs anymore. I am not a soldier.

If I were called to defend the country, I would probably be put in some sort of diplomatic job. I do intend to study linguistics, so I would probably conduct negotiations.

 

[richardlowellt]

Killing civilians.

In an effort to shorten and even end the war in Europe the allied forces bombed the oil refineries and ball bearing plants in Germany, as wolf packs of German Subs were decimating our shipping lanes in the North Atlantic bombing raids of submarine pens were also bombed. Do you think non of these bombings should have been done because of the chance that civilian workers might have been killed?

Because you sounded as if you thought "divine wind" meant you went to some paradise if you were a kamikaze pilot. I have never heard of this, however I have not done much research on history.

No divine wind does not mean paradise, but in going to their death for their emperor God the Kamikaze's their reward was paradise.











No, not yet.

I was afraid to go outside at night without the porch light on to watch the meteor shower. NOW cowardly has new meaning. ^_^ (I still did it, and I was fine once I was out there; I'm working on not letting fear control me, and will use roller coasters to practice being perfectly calm and collected in high-energy situations.)

But yes. If I were called in to defend the country as a soldier, I would freeze up and jeopardize the lives of my squad-mates. Besides, my reflexes are horrible; I can't think all that fast. Not to mention the fact that I am a pacifist, and do not even kill bugs anymore. I am not a soldier.

Do you somehow think you are unique, that no one else has ever had this problem? Do you think all of those who fought in WW11 that non of them had the problem you say you have? Do you not think that fear was of death was never constantly on my mind or on the minds of anyone involved in war? how then are you so very special? Many who fought in WW11 were just young boys some as young as 16 or 17 with their entire lives stretch before them, they had everything to lose, we all fear a painful death, bravery comes from overcoming those fears, from putting yourself second to a more important cause, and from personal sacrifice as was the case of a very good friend how knowingly died so that I and other could live.



If I were called to defend the country, I would probably be put in some sort of diplomatic job. I do intend to study linguistics, so I would probably conduct negotiations.

Unfortunately when called to defend this country we have very little choice as to how we will be used.

 

[Riverwolf]

Unfortunately when called to defend this country we have very little choice as to how we will be used.

Which is why the draft is so bloody stupid.

A pacifist can no more kill a man with a gun than a man with Parkinson's can aim one. I would be completely useless on a modern battlefield.

 

[richardlowellt]

Which is why the draft is so bloody stupid.

A pacifist can no more kill a man with a gun than a man with Parkinson's can aim one. I would be completely useless on a modern battlefield.

I'm sure all those who's freedoms where protected by those who gave their lives are thank full you kind of Pacifism is in the minority. In my book pacifist are cowards.

 

[J Bryson]

I'm sure all those who's freedoms where protected by those who gave their lives are thank full you kind of Pacifism is in the minority. In my book pacifist are cowards.

Gandhi was a coward?

 

[tumbleweed41]

I'm sure all those who's freedoms where protected by those who gave their lives are thank full you kind of Pacifism is in the minority. In my book pacifist are cowards.

 

[Riverwolf]

I'm sure all those who's freedoms where protected by those who gave their lives are thank full you kind of Pacifism is in the minority.

Would you mind reworking that sentence so it's grammatically correct? I have no idea what you're trying to say.

In my book pacifist are cowards.

Why? Because we won't squeeze a trigger to kill a man with whom we have no quarrel?

We all have our jobs to do. I will contribute through my stories and poetry. My sword is my pen.

 

[Riverwolf]

Gandhi was a coward?

If you saw an earlier post of his, he thinks Gandhi was some sort of liar who was out for his own ends. I have a feeling he doesn't have any respect for anything non-American.

In America! lol

 

[J Bryson]

Wow.

I think that it can take more bravery to face your foe unarmed than it does to have a weapon at the ready.

What about Tolstoy? King? Thoreau? Dorothy Day? The Dalai Lama? Heck, what about Jesus? He told his followers to put away their swords when the Romans came to get him, and didn't fight any step of the way.

Understand, I'm not a pacifist, at least not a total one. I can and do see war as an ugly but necessary business when all other options have been pursued. However, I will not easily disregard the absolute bravery in the face of violence shown by pacifists throughout history.

 

[dogsgod]

I'm sure all those who's freedoms where protected by those who gave their lives are thank full you kind of Pacifism is in the minority. In my book pacifist are cowards.

When were people's freedom protected by non pacifists?