How are Jews justified in creating the state of Israel?

[free spirit]

Auto, for what reason should any Palestinian leader be given to trust the other? I'm not arguing that a stalemate is helpful, but the degeneration of trust is evident in the actions of the other.

For example the Oslo Accords. Arafat so foolishly was dealing with Rabin and the most educated minds of Israel by his lonesome. While Arafat can be described in many ways, a studious intellectual of law and debate he was not.

This disastrous agreement ignored the most prevalent questions of the time such as the right to return, Eastern Jerusalem, and the encroaching settlements for an ambiguous "later point".

Partitioning are into A zones (under Palestinian control), B zones (under joint control, and C zones (under Israeli occupation), it resulted in undermining the UN resolutions of 242 and its kin.

Israel refused to withdraw from their occupied zones and the Arab world condemned Arafat;s decision to rule as the despot of 22% of what would have been Palestine.

It was truly pathetic to see how the Palestinian side was reduced to arguing merely for a halt to settlements and greater autonomy. Requests like controlling "terrorists" in their border while simultaneously demand a "smaller police force" and bombing police stations is incredulous.



Of the times that Iran has threatened war how many times has it carried through with its rhetoric?

It has been the Palestinians, not the Israelis, who have weakened over time. Whose legitimate claims to territory, East Jerusalem, and an independent state have been trampled on.

As time passes by so does the time frame for an independent Palestine, perhaps Abbass will skip these indirect talks that Washington always insists on holding and appeal to the U.N for recognition.



There are many Palestinians, driven by 60% unemployment in places like Gaza, to seek work in Israel and are routinely killed in their attempts to illegally enter the country.



When the airstrikes come and kill one Hammas leader at the expense of nine civilians and an apartment complex and are hailed in Israel as a great success what would they do?

When the concrete needed to rebuild the infrastructure that has been bombed repeatedly by American made fighters is not available because of the blockade who should they blame?

When settlers continue to evict Palestinians, destroy ancestral homes a hundred years old, and rip through olive trees that are the only source of revenue to who should they complain?

Israel's activities result in direct harm of the Palestinian people and their livelihoods. They do not even have livelihoods! Local leaders need not do anything, the animosity is already there.



Nonsense, there is no inborn animosity towards Jews. I regard my Jewish friends as brothers who truly do worship the same God.

There is a history of leaders both opposing and embracing Jews throughout history.

Examples that would counter "historic animosity" would be

the Moorish conquest of Spain that provided a cultural renaissance for the Jews. While not up to par with modern standards of equality, it was for the time unfounded freedom of all sects .

Then there are the Albanians and others who sheltered Jews during the Holocaust, a link to a document that I'll provide below.

Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth - View Single Post - Exhibition on Albanian Muslims Who Sheltered Jews during WWII



While this definitely takes into the account of the fanatical settlers who are a serious problem to peace, a large chunk of Israelis are secular.

Abibi you are a saint, If only could find a Jew like you, peace will have some new hope.

 

[England my lionheart]

LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT! there is no such thing as an israeli. no such thing as a "jew" either! we are ISRAELITES! who killed millions of us during ww2? not our arab muslim brothers. we should have been given the land of our oppressors but to start problems between us (divide and conquer) they (united nations aka USA aka BABYLON) decided to give us land belonging to righteous people already. no thanks satan ISRAEL is in my future but not until the MESSIAH (not jesus) comes. zionist are not ISRAELITES at all but rather gentiles in disguise (edomites)! point the finger at the right people! SHALOM

It may aid you to read the history of Israel starting at the British Mandate,the amount of nonsense in this thread is equal to ignorance IMO

 

[Debunker]

Well this tread has become a political debate and I must op out of it because I believe that politically the chinese have the right to do what they like to Tibet.
And that India politically has the right to do what they like to Cashemer.
and politically the Israely have the right to do what they like in palestine.
You do not have to have much of a brain to know why, they have the biger gun thats why.
So I believe we cannot mix politics with spirituality and come out smiling, for mixing the two you will create pure evil, the Devil incarnated. :angel2:
Once the pope was such a man. at present some muslims are working hard to be that man and the Israely are on their heels.:sad:

Free Spirit, I see you depend on the Bible for wisdom. That is good. It is difficult some times but I try to "speak evil of no man" and I know it is worse to speak evil of a whole nation as you seem to do. Speaking evil is speaking something that is not supported by the facts How can you continually condemn Israel in light of all the facts presented on this thread, especially when not one fact has been presented in rebut to the justification of the Jews to have their own state?

 

[England my lionheart]

No this isn't a Jew bashing thread, it's a legitimate question. How are Jews justified in going into a land they haven't lived in for 2000 years and forcefully taking it away from the people who have lived there for a long time?

Seems like a Jew bashing thread so far,if this is a genuine question then the answer is in genuine history which for the most part has been totally ignored in this thread.

 

[free spirit]

Free Spirit, I see you depend on the Bible for wisdom. That is good. It is difficult some times but I try to "speak evil of no man" and I know it is worse to speak evil of a whole nation as you seem to do. Speaking evil is speaking something that is not supported by the facts How can you continually condemn Israel in light of all the facts presented on this thread, especially when not one fact has been presented in rebut to the justification of the Jews to have their own state?

If the Americans, Canadians or Australians, would have volontarely given one of their own state to the Jews that would have been acceptable but there is no justification at all to take away from one and give to another. that land was unlawfully given to a religious group of people to the deprival of those who lived there. Unless you would like to create all the nations based on religion.
This tread has not provided any righteous facts to justify the Jewish state.

My believes are simple "love your neigbour as yourself" My judgements are simple "I hate injustice as God hate injustice"

The palestinians are suffering for the comfort of the Jews: modern Jews have no right to that land, the Jews have become robbers of palestinians land and houses like the nazi were, there is no natural justice in the Jewish behaviour, thieves are also liers. their behaviour and lies rises in the heart of just men a righteous hate.
They whent into Gaza then killed 1400 mostly innocent people, only lost 6 man, they used phosphorus bombs, we were able to see them deploid and their affect on the population in the news, but their spokesman with a stright face negate the use of them, gives me great comfort that in the end God will judge them. I can only call them to repent.

 

[Twig pentagram]

Seems like a Jew bashing thread so far,if this is a genuine question then the answer is in genuine history which for the most part has been totally ignored in this thread.

What answer is in genuine history. I have'nt seen or heard that answer yet.

 

[England my lionheart]

If the Americans, Canadians or Australians, would have volontarely given one of their own state to the Jews that would have been acceptable but there is no justification at all to take away from one and give to another. that land was unlawfully given to a religious group of people to the deprival of those who lived there. Unless you would like to create all the nations based on religion.
This tread has not provided any righteous facts to justify the Jewish state.

My believes are simple "love your neigbour as yourself" My judgements are simple "I hate injustice as God hate injustice"

The palestinians are suffering for the comfort of the Jews: modern Jews have no right to that land, the Jews have become robbers of palestinians land and houses like the nazi were, there is no natural justice in the Jewish behaviour, thieves are also liers. their behaviour and lies rises in the heart of just men a righteous hate.
They whent into Gaza then killed 1400 mostly innocent people, only lost 6 man, they used phosphorus bombs, we were able to see them deploid and their affect on the population in the news, but their spokesman with a stright face negate the use of them, gives me great comfort that in the end God will judge them. I can only call them to repent.

The Palestinians are suffering because of the path they chose to take 90 years ago,90 years ago Jews and Muslims lived peacefully alongside each other in peace until Amin Al Husayni the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem a well known anti semite began to stir things up.

In 1929 the Arabs were incited to kill 67 Jews in Hebron by basically being lied to,again the Mufti was involved but worse was to come with WWII when the Mufti allied himself to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party and even had a Muslim SS division of his own.

Fast forward to 1928 Hasan Al Banna forms the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt also allied to the Nazis,now consider these facts,Hamas are a child of the MB and if you take the time to read the Hamas Charter you will see the righteous hate you speak of or perhaps your God neglected to show you some truths

 

[England my lionheart]

What answer is in genuine history. I have'nt seen or heard that answer yet.

Facts

 

[free spirit]

The Palestinians are suffering because of the path they chose to take 90 years ago,90 years ago Jews and Muslims lived peacefully alongside each other in peace until Amin Al Husayni the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem a well known anti semite began to stir things up.

In 1929 the Arabs were incited to kill 67 Jews in Hebron by basically being lied to,again the Mufti was involved but worse was to come with WWII when the Mufti allied himself to Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party and even had a Muslim SS division of his own.

Fast forward to 1928 Hasan Al Banna forms the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt also allied to the Nazis,now consider these facts,Hamas are a child of the MB and if you take the time to read the Hamas Charter you will see the righteous hate you speak of or perhaps your God neglected to show you some truths

History is full of incidents and evil people, that does not justfy more evil.

 

[England my lionheart]

History is full of incidents and evil people, that does not justfy more evil.

OK agreed but likening Israel to the Nazis is far from the truth

 

[free spirit]

OK agreed but likening Israel to the Nazis is far from the truth

The nazi stole Jews property, the Jews are stealing Palestinian's property not in the manner the nazi did it, neverdeless the end is the same.

 

[England my lionheart]

The nazi stole Jews property, the Jews are stealing Palestinian's property not in the manner the nazi did it, neverdeless the end is the same.

There are obviously problems with the settlements but thats as far as it goes,if you are saying Israel was stolen from the Palestinians you would be wrong,Palestine was ruled by the Ottomans (Turkey) which they lost in WWI to the British.

 

[free spirit]

There are obviously problems with the settlements but thats as far as it goes,if you are saying Israel was stolen from the Palestinians you would be wrong,Palestine was ruled by the Ottomans (Turkey) which they lost in WWI to the British.

The land belong to the people that live there, occupation army come and go the people stay.

 

[Rakhel]

RIght so my husband should get back the land the Arabs stole from his grandfather, huh? Land his family had lived on for the better part of 500 yrs before the Muslim oppressors came through and tried to run him and his family into the sea just because he was Jewish?

For some reason it doesn't work the other way around does it?

 

[England my lionheart]

The land belong to the people that live there, occupation army come and go the people stay.

Wrong,the land was ruled by Ottoman Turkey and then the British who regarded Palestine as the ancestral home of the Israelites as did others hence the Balfour declaration.

 

[free spirit]

Wrong,the land was ruled by Ottoman Turkey and then the British who regarded Palestine as the ancestral home of the Israelites as did others hence the Balfour declaration.

British arrogance is what give away land that was not theirs to give, you can colonase a land but when you leave, your people either have become part of the natives or they will be trown out, like is hapening in zimbawe

 

[England my lionheart]

British arrogance is what give away land that was not theirs to give, you can colonase a land but when you leave, your people either have become part of the natives or they will be trown out, like is hapening in zimbawe

Oh yes Britain was very arrogant but not in this case,BTW Britain didn't colonise Israel

 

[England my lionheart]

British arrogance is what give away land that was not theirs to give, you can colonase a land but when you leave, your people either have become part of the natives or they will be trown out, like is hapening in zimbawe

Just a thought,how would you feel if the Aborigines decided to throw out the colonists?

 

[free spirit]

RIght so my husband should get back the land the Arabs stole from his grandfather, huh? Land his family had lived on for the better part of 500 yrs before the Muslim oppressors came through and tried to run him and his family into the sea just because he was Jewish?

For some reason it doesn't work the other way around does it?

Yes it is an evil world based on greed, dominance and cruelty, and Jews are not better, but they ought to be because of their past sufferings. instead they have become musters of inflicting suffering.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just a thought,how would you feel if the Aborigines decided to throw out the colonists?

They only reason American, Canadian & Australian aboriginals don't rise up to reclaim what was once theirs is that they lack the power to do so. Israel killed & tossed out Palestinians simply because they wanted to & they could. The winners always see themselves as justified, especially so as time passes & they continue to hold it. We see guilt by association excuses such as: "Their neighbors didn't even help them." "Arabs as a group are warlike & backstabbing." "Look how violent Palestinians are...sending rockets into our land even though we treat them fairly." Zionists know that no matter how dastardly a taking is, if they keep on taking more, bit by bit, & they keep it long enuf, then it becomes more established, & the West will always back the Jews against the Muslims. But if Muslims destroy Israel & make it an Islamic country, then that too will be justified. Such rationalizing results in an awful lotta carnage. It's best to work out some unholy accommodation to serve peace, but there's just too much religion & martyrdom involved.