How are Jews justified in creating the state of Israel?

[dmgdnooc]

Just a thought,how would you feel if the Aborigines decided to throw out the colonists?

Wouldn't mind really.
That is if my right of return to my ancestral lands in Somerset were fully recognised.
Much chance of that?
　
This article is somewhat dated, but is one of the best I have come across on the Arab/Israeli conflict.
The Peace Process is Dead, Long Live the Peace Process - Ami Isseroff
　
I think that its premise, that both sides envisage peace through victory, is every bit as valid today as when it was written.
This idea, acknowledged or implied, seems to remain THE great barrier to a true peace in the region.

 

[England my lionheart]

Wouldn't mind really.
That is if my right of return to my ancestral lands in Somerset were fully recognised.
Much chance of that?

No chance,its now a Cider orchard and Brewery
　
This article is somewhat dated, but is one of the best I have come across on the Arab/Israeli conflict.
The Peace Process is Dead, Long Live the Peace Process - Ami Isseroff
　
I think that its premise, that both sides envisage peace through victory, is every bit as valid today as when it was written.
This idea, acknowledged or implied, seems to remain THE great barrier to a true peace in the region.

Personally i think Hamas's idea of victory is delusional and they have little desire for peace which is sad really because their ideology isn't even home grown,still we can only hope.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Personally i think Hamas's idea of victory is delusional and they have little desire for peace which is sad really because their ideology isn't even home grown,still we can only hope.

You know I actually agree that Hamas isn't in the right either. I think both sides are doing things dead wrong. However, Palestine is the weaker man and Israel is taking it's opportunity to stomp them into the dirt.

 

[England my lionheart]

They only reason American, Canadian & Australian aboriginals don't rise up to reclaim what was once theirs is that they lack the power to do so. Israel killed & tossed out Palestinians simply because they wanted to & they could. The winners always see themselves as justified, especially so as time passes & they continue to hold it. We see guilt by association excuses such as: "Their neighbors didn't even help them." "Arabs as a group are warlike & backstabbing." "Look how violent Palestinians are...sending rockets into our land even though we treat them fairly." Zionists know that no matter how dastardly a taking is, if they keep on taking more, bit by bit, & they keep it long enuf, then it becomes more established, & the West will always back the Jews against the Muslims. But if Muslims destroy Israel & make it an Islamic country, then that too will be justified. Such rationalizing results in an awful lotta carnage. It's best to work out some unholy accommodation to serve peace, but there's just too much religion & martyrdom involved.

I have studied the history of Israel from pre Balfour declaration to the present,for the most part people tend to demonise Zionists,heck i've seen people quoting the protocols of the elders of Zion,i've also seen the Zionist conspiracy to dominate the Movie industry and the world Bank plus Mrs Browns Knitting circle at 44 credibility street SW14.

Israel killed & tossed out Palestinians simply because they wanted to & they could.

I disagree with this,i think Israel have been pretty restrained compared to other countries,7 wars and two infitadas have made them tough cookies sure but i would support them over the Hamas Charter anytime.

 

[England my lionheart]

You know I actually agree that Hamas isn't in the right either. I think both sides are doing things dead wrong. However, Palestine is the weaker man and Israel is taking it's opportunity to stomp them into the dirt.

Hamas has never been in the right read the Charter,Fatah are not much better,worse still there are others waiting in the wings who are happy to continue the failure of the last 70 years.

Israel was for a long time the underdog/weaker Man and when the Arabs attacked it nobody gave a Monkeys,you say Israel are stomping them into the dirt,if that was their intention they could have done so years ago.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Hamas has never been in the right read the Charter,Fatah are not much better,worse still there are others waiting in the wings who are happy to continue the failure of the last 70 years.

Israel was for a long time the underdog/weaker Man and when the Arabs attacked it nobody gave a Monkeys,you say Israel are stomping them into the dirt,if that was their intention they could have done so years ago.

I am not sure we have the same definition of what stomping one into the dirt is

 

[England my lionheart]

I am not sure we have the same definition of what stomping one into the dirt is

Earlier in the thread you likened it to genocide,way over the top BTW and wrong unless you have proof to say otherwise

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Earlier in the thread you likened it to genocide,way over the top BTW and wrong unless you have proof to say otherwise

Well as Abibi pointed out, there have been circumstances of IDF soldiers killing children for throwing rocks at their equipment. Genocide may not be quite the word, but you can't deny the Palestinians are treated like dirt.

 

[LuisDantas]

They are, but the situation isn't quite so cut-and-dried, Senedjem.

For one thing, it seems to me that even if the IDF retreated and left the Palestinians alone, it wouldn't solve much. Part of the reason of their plight is that they have little resources or local support. They are not troubled just because Israel has military presence there.

 

[England my lionheart]

Well as Abibi pointed out, there have been circumstances of IDF soldiers killing children for throwing rocks at their equipment. Genocide may not be quite the word, but you can't deny the Palestinians are treated like dirt.

Do the Palestinians treat the Israelis like dirt? check out the Palestinian education system for Kids it makes them into real Tree huggers

 

[Enoughie]

Well as Abibi pointed out, there have been circumstances of IDF soldiers killing children for throwing rocks at their equipment. Genocide may not be quite the word, but you can't deny the Palestinians are treated like dirt.

Actually, No! There haven't been circumstances where the IDF intentionally killed a child for throwing rocks on tanks.

If you want to continue with your campaign of fact-free disinformation, I'd suggest you start providing sources to your claims!

Otherwise, the only purpose for this "debate" thread I see is for you to promote hateful propaganda.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Do the Palestinians treat the Israelis like dirt? check out the Palestinian education system for Kids it makes them into real Tree huggers

:biglaugh:

 

[Rainbow Mage]

They are, but the situation isn't quite so cut-and-dried, Senedjem.

For one thing, it seems to me that even if the IDF retreated and left the Palestinians alone, it wouldn't solve much. Part of the reason of their plight is that they have little resources or local support. They are not troubled just because Israel has military presence there.

Fair enough, but that's the biggest part of the problem

 

[Rainbow Mage]

:biglaugh:

He acts as though the Israeli children are really taught so much better.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

He acts as though the Israeli children are really taught so much better.

Who does? Nobody said anything about the Israeli children.

Kids in Palestine probably receive a better education than kids in Texas (and especially New Mexico).

 

[Enoughie]

He acts as though the Israeli children are really taught so much better.

Palestinian classroom: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/sp/sib3_04/images/k_34r.jpg

Israeli classroom: http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/24012010/2870582/1_wa.jpg

See the difference? Ah, yes! The Israelis don't have pictures of suicide murderers on the wall. I'd say that's "a bit" better.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Palestinian classroom: http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/html/final/sp/sib3_04/images/k_34r.jpg

Israeli classroom: http://www.ynetnews.com/PicServer2/24012010/2870582/1_wa.jpg

See the difference? Ah, yes! The Israelis don't have pictures of suicide murderers on the wall. I'd say that's "a bit" better.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

Now that reminds me of my old Sunday School classroom.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Who does? Nobody said anything about the Israeli children.

Kids in Palestine probably receive a better education than kids in Texas (and especially New Mexico).

Probably

 

[Enoughie]

Now that reminds me of my old Sunday School classroom.

That explains a lot

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[England my lionheart]

Now that reminds me of my old Sunday School classroom.

That must have been in New Mexico