How are Jews justified in creating the state of Israel?

[Bismillah]

I think RF should make a special smiley/icon for Anti-Semite. It could be very useful in a thread like this.

It's funny because a lot of the time people forget that Arabs are semites too, therefore you could argue both sides are Anti-semites

 

[Bismillah]

They hate Israel because they have been raised with hate,they hate Israel because they believe it to be an Islamic Waqf and because it says so in their elected Party Hamas Charter,they hate America because it is the great Shaitan because ,as everybody knows America is part of the great Zionist conspiracy

fun fact: Israel made hamas.

edit: and it would be foolish to consider that the blockade, settlement, failure to establish a home state, and countless "collateral" murders do not play a much bigger role.

 

[Numinous]

No reply Auto, I named two off the top of my head and I stand firm they are both corrupt to the max and major Israeli state supporters, funneling billions for corrupt reasons...

 

[England my lionheart]

fun fact: Israel made hamas.

Not so fun fact,Hamas made the Charter of course with the help of the Muslim Brotherhood and some backward thinking

 

[Bismillah]

Look England, I'm not sure what you're trying to state. Hamas was created by Israel as an opponent of Fatah. Hamas's tactics parallel, exactly, the tactics of Zionists when they were attacking and bombing the British.

But regardless of Hamas, peace is in Israel's court now. The West Bank has become increasingly stable and Abass has done a good job of heavily reducing insurgent activity within the West Bank and I read an article recently of how Israelis were now giving more and more trust to the PA in terms of security whenever an Israeli delegate visited

Like I said.

Withdraw from illegal settlements

Stop the ethnic cleansing in Eastern Jerusalem

And freeze any new settlement buildings

These three things will most definitely lead to a more secure and stable relationship in the Middle East.

And until Israel actively engages in these peace talks, then the U.S should cut its one side military funding.

 

[Bismillah]

Enoughie: ok I'm sorry if you thought I was justifying in blatant attacks against Jews, because I am not.

 

[Enoughie]

No reply Auto, I named two off the top of my head and I stand firm they are both corrupt to the max and major Israeli state supporters, funneling billions for corrupt reasons...

And how much exactly did they funnel, compared to Israel's GDP? This should be interesting.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Debunker]

By and by the best way to achieve peace would be to reduce America's unconditional support for Israel.

Well, how about universal Muslim condemnation of terrorist suicide bombings in the whole world? That is not much to ask for in return for impartiality in world politics. Can't do it, can you?

 

[Danmac]

No this isn't a Jew bashing thread, it's a legitimate question. How are Jews justified in going into a land they haven't lived in for 2000 years and forcefully taking it away from the people who have lived there for a long time?

You appear to be a bit ill informed. The Jews didn't take anything. Maybe this will help.

United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Enoughie]

Enoughie: ok I'm sorry if you thought I was justifying in blatant attacks against Jews, because I am not.

I never thought that.

I'm more interested in having a healthy and productive dialogue/debate. I think you contribute a lot to that end (even though I may disagree with you on some issues).

But some individuals here turn the discussion into filthy garbage with their hateful rhetoric.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Bismillah]

Well, how about universal Muslim condemnation of terrorist suicide bombings in the whole world? That is not much to ask for in return for impartiality in world politics. Can't do it, can you?

One no I can't speak for the Muslims around the world.

Two I don't have to, there have been gallup polls taken and there is a clear condemnation of the suicide bombers that more often than not kill Muslims

 

[Bismillah]

Free Christian: It is a proven fact that there is a much stronger support of Israel among Christians than any other demographic including Jews.

 

[croak]

Well, how about universal Muslim condemnation of terrorist suicide bombings in the whole world? That is not much to ask for in return for impartiality in world politics. Can't do it, can you?

Considering you can have atheist terrorists, Christian terrorists, [fill in with the religion of your choice] terrorists, why don't you get all atheists or all Christians or all whoever to condemn terrorist attacks?

This might just be semantics, but you can't have universal Muslim condemnation if even just one Muslim is a terrorist. It won't be universal.

How is that not much to ask? Many Muslims do condemn terrorist acts. That's a good thing.

Can you get all the Christians of the world to condemn abortion clinic bombings? Even that one Christian living in the middle of Siberia?

No one can do it. No one can bring impartiality to world politics, either.

 

[Bismillah]

Then again the rise of the suicide bomber is much higher among Muslims for a simple reason.

In the active wars that have been recently fought or are currently in the process, it is almost inevitably the Muslim "side" that is inferior in terms of technology. The suicide bomber can be seen as an "equiliser".

Furthermore, it would be good to point out that a person elects to kill himself and the innocents around him when he has nothing left to lose. In other words, the life that he has been given is deemed insufferable and the actions he takes is akin to "making them hurt too".

I remember reading an article of the bombing of U.S barracks in Lebanon and one of the Marines stated that the only thing he remembers is that the bomber was smiling.

 

[free spirit]

It's funny because a lot of the time people forget that Arabs are semites too, therefore you could argue both sides are Anti-semites

No ABIBI they have no idea of what is a SEMITE and I am not sure, so can you spell it out for us.

 

[England my lionheart]

Look England, I'm not sure what you're trying to state. Hamas was created by Israel as an opponent of Fatah. Hamas's tactics parallel, exactly, the tactics of Zionists when they were attacking and bombing the British.

I'm not trying to state anything,i am however pointing out that whether Israel wants peace or not Hamas don't which it clearly says in their Charter.

Fatah have a Charter too,it also wants ( at least in the long term)rid of Israel although it has been changed the sentiments still there,instead of Zionist it says enemy.

I agree the settlements are a huge hurdle but not as big as the Islamist ideaology,Hamas cannot back down,there may be a ceasefire but its goal has always been the same and both Israel and the US underestimated them grossly.

But regardless of Hamas, peace is in Israel's court now. The West Bank has become increasingly stable and Abass has done a good job of heavily reducing insurgent activity within the West Bank and I read an article recently of how Israelis were now giving more and more trust to the PA in terms of security whenever an Israeli delegate visited

True they are making a go of things but there are other factions in Palestine and its a far more complex situation than just stopping the settlements and giving ground.

And until Israel actively engages in these peace talks, then the U.S should cut its one side military funding.

I think the U.S should continue its funding until Hamas drops its Charter and then maybe there could be progress

 

[Enoughie]

Furthermore, it would be good to point out that a person elects to kill himself and the innocents around him when he has nothing left to lose. In other words, the life that he has been given is deemed insufferable and the actions he takes is akin to "making them hurt too".

Perhaps that is true in a religious sense, not in a economical or political sense.

All statistics show that suicide terrorists tend to be, not from the poor class, but rather middle class, educated, religious.

Take for example the terrorist doctors who wanted to blow up the airport in Britain. I wouldn't say they had "nothing left to lose."

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

 

[Numinous]

And how much exactly did they funnel, compared to Israel's GDP? This should be interesting.

_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma

This is ludicrous, one only has to know who Stanley Fischer is and his relationship to Bernanke.
Ignorance must be bliss

 

[Bismillah]

I am not a semite so I wouldn't know the intricacies but:

In linguistics and ethnology, Semitic (from the Biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎, translated as "name", Arabic: ساميّ&#8206 was first used to refer to a language family of largely Middle Eastern origin, now called the Semitic languages. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others.

In contrast, some recent genetic studies found that analysis of the DNA of Semitic-speaking peoples suggests that they have some common ancestry. Though no significant common mitochondrial results have been yielded, Y-chromosomal links between Semitic-speaking Near-Eastern peoples like Arabs, Hebrews and Assyrians have proved fruitful, despite differences contributed from other groups (see Y-chromosomal Aaron). The studies attribute this correlation to a common Near Eastern origin, since Semitic-speaking Near Easterners from the Fertile Crescent (including Jews) were found to be more closely related to non-Semitic speaking Near Easterners (such as Iranians, Anatolians, and Caucasians) than to other Semitic-speakers (such as Gulf Arabs, Ethiopian Semites, and North African Arabs).[9][10]

 

[Bismillah]

Perhaps that is true in a religious sense, not in a economical or political sense.

All statistics show that suicide terrorists tend to be, not from the poor class, but rather middle class, educated, religious.

Take for example the terrorist doctors who wanted to blow up the airport in Britain. I wouldn't say they had "nothing left to lose."

Depending heavily on their targets and geography. Almost every terrorist in the Afghan-Pak region can be described as such.

Then you can look at the scores of Palestinian refugee camps that also produce many of the right wing Hamas supportes who also have "nothing left to lose".

Only when you come to the targets of U.S and the West will you see people like Faisal Shazad and Mohammed Atta do you see that many of these bombers are indeed Western educated or have otherwise spent significant time in the West.