Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Right after you give Australia back to the aborigines.
btw, what makes you think Muslims will seek peace after destroying Israel?
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How are Jews justified in creating the state of Israel?
- Thread starter Rainbow Mage
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Right after you give Australia back to the aborigines.
btw, what makes you think Muslims will seek peace after destroying Israel?
For the past 120 years or so, the Arab-Israeli conflict could be boiled down to a simple difference in worldviews.
(notice I don't say Israeli-Palestinian, because if not for the negative Arab-Muslim influence, Jews and Palestinians could have lived in peace in one state for a looong time now)
On the one hand you have the Zionist worldview about the "State of the Jews," (or "Jewish State") as articulated by the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl:
Every man will be as free and undisturbed in his faith or his disbelief as he is in his nationality. And if it should occur that men of other creeds and different nationalities come to live amongst us, we should accord them honorable protection and equality before the law
We ourselves will use and carry on every new attempt in our Jewish land . . . for the good of humanity, so we shall proceed in everything else in the same humane spirit, making of the new land a land of experiments and a model State
(Theodor Herzl, in his book "The State of the Jews," 1896)
On the other hand, you have the Arab-Muslim worldview, that was expressed in the preceding 1300 years of Islamic Imperialism:
Fight those [among Jews and Christians] who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
(Quran 9:29)
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
(Hadith, Sahih Muslim 1:33)
So on the one hand you have Zionists who wanted freedom and equality for Jews are Arabs, and creating a state for the good of humanity.
On the other hand you have the vestiges of 1300 years of Islamic Imperialism, who wanted Jews to be subjugated to Muslims, and conquest for the sake of Islam.
Unfortunately, most Palestinians chose to ally with their Arab "brothers," who did absolutely nothing to help them, but instead exploited them for their own political profit.
Unfortunately, Hamas is just the latest iteration of the same Islamic worldview.
Palestinians need to realize what is in their own best interests, and work with the Israelis toward creating two states that could live in peace with each other, and establish strong economic bonds so Israelis and Palestinians can prosper.
The rest of the Middle East needs to get rid of their 7th century mentality, and join in the effort to promote freedom and equality (not that that's likely to happen any time soon).
_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma
(notice I don't say Israeli-Palestinian, because if not for the negative Arab-Muslim influence, Jews and Palestinians could have lived in peace in one state for a looong time now)
On the one hand you have the Zionist worldview about the "State of the Jews," (or "Jewish State") as articulated by the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl:
Every man will be as free and undisturbed in his faith or his disbelief as he is in his nationality. And if it should occur that men of other creeds and different nationalities come to live amongst us, we should accord them honorable protection and equality before the law
We ourselves will use and carry on every new attempt in our Jewish land . . . for the good of humanity, so we shall proceed in everything else in the same humane spirit, making of the new land a land of experiments and a model State
(Theodor Herzl, in his book "The State of the Jews," 1896)
On the other hand, you have the Arab-Muslim worldview, that was expressed in the preceding 1300 years of Islamic Imperialism:
Fight those [among Jews and Christians] who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
(Quran 9:29)
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
(Hadith, Sahih Muslim 1:33)
So on the one hand you have Zionists who wanted freedom and equality for Jews are Arabs, and creating a state for the good of humanity.
On the other hand you have the vestiges of 1300 years of Islamic Imperialism, who wanted Jews to be subjugated to Muslims, and conquest for the sake of Islam.
Unfortunately, most Palestinians chose to ally with their Arab "brothers," who did absolutely nothing to help them, but instead exploited them for their own political profit.
Unfortunately, Hamas is just the latest iteration of the same Islamic worldview.
Palestinians need to realize what is in their own best interests, and work with the Israelis toward creating two states that could live in peace with each other, and establish strong economic bonds so Israelis and Palestinians can prosper.
The rest of the Middle East needs to get rid of their 7th century mentality, and join in the effort to promote freedom and equality (not that that's likely to happen any time soon).
_____________________
Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma
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free spirit
Well-Known Member
WRONG ONCE AGAIN.
My post does not show hate for the Jews, but love for justice and peace.
Yes. Islamic Imperialism = love for justice and peace. Gotcha!
If you lived in Europe in the 1930s your solution to German aggression would have been to give Hitler the Sudetenland. Problem solved.
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Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma
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free spirit
Well-Known Member
You forget that in the present age the intruders are the Israelits, let me say this to you.
The Romans found the Jews to be a pain in the neck, so they spread them all over the continent, gues what... for the last 2000 years other nations also found them to be a pain in the neck.
Now the UN has a resolution which state that Israel should go back to the 1948 borders, Israel is not doing that on the contrary it is expanding.
So if Israel was formed by the UN, the UN can olso declare Israel an inlegal state.
The world is showing signs that Israel is becoming a pain in the neck, and if the world decide to turn agaist Israel it will make Hitler look like an amateur.
So for the best interests of Israel and its people around the world they should make a just peace with the Palestinians.
Two solutions are on hand, two states and the right of return for the palestinians both implemented within a guaranteed time fraim.
Time is agains Israel, Israel must have peace to survive
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Here you reveal your profound anti-semitism.
Let us know if that ever happens.
You're threatening us? Pretty hard to scare people who've endured what we've endured, free spirit.
Again, you realize that we had two states, and it was the Palestinians who rejected it, NOT Israel? But you want Israel to change, not the Palestinians?
free spirit
Well-Known Member
That is news to me: So there are still some God loving Jews in the world, i had given up hope.
Numinous
Philosopher
How about I name a couple current ones, Paul Wolfowitz and Ben Bernanke? Can any two people be more corrupt? Don't say there is no leaning towards the state of Israel.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
How does Israel make peace with a group of people who want them dead, have started numerous wars against them and fire rockets into civilian targets on an almost daily basis?
By your reasoning should we give Australia back to the aboriginies? There isn't much difference? Fact is Palestine shot itself in the foot by going to war, that made Israel into a bulldog who will defend its home. The more Palestine attacks Israel and its civilians with car bombs and the such, the less sympathy the world has for Palestine.
Seems to me you just want rid of Israel as per your Map
free spirit
Well-Known Member
No that wasn't right Mr. Mredoff or whatever is name, was took down Jews as well. He did things big, 60 billions can you immagin, He got away with it for so long because he was a Jew, Jews for some people cannot do wrong you know.
croak
Trickster
I remarked 'and with just those you've shrunken the Arab "big guy" by quite a bit'. By "just those" I am stating that, while I have not mentioned all the countries, I have cut down the size of the Arab "big guy"... if that makes sense.
As for Lebanon, I conveniently added "(for the most part)". Hizbullah's clearly not included in that part. Also, I never said Lebanon wasn't a player. Of course it is.
I stand by my conclusion that Israel is the "big guy" in this situation.
Israel must,the world will do what? make Hitler look like an amatuer
hang on one more is this really the best you can do
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Here's where is disagree. Why hate Israel for America's support? What does America's support do other than help Israel defend itself? America supports Australia, we have a warship of theirs in Sydney every few months, does that mean Muslims hate us as well?
If America didn't support Israel wouldn't the Arab states walk all over them? Isn't military prowess something the Arab states dislike about Israel? But take the USA away and the Arab states would have done the same thing and take the land.
Essentially do you hate Israel because its the USA making it strong, thus, Arab states can't band together and slaughter them taking back what they think is their land.
I can't see why the USA would influence anything. Please help me out here as i'm not sure where you're comming from or whether i understand.
Bismillah
Submit
Next time someone illegally uses cluster bombs over Australia or you find the remnants of a Hellfire missile in your home that is meant for anti armor capabilities you'll understand. It's the fact that weapons produced in America are used to kill Palestinian civilians that generates hatred, not their mere presence.
One the Arab states are dependent on Western contracts for their military. The Saudi Navy is French made and the majority of their contracts are by the U.S military.
Two Israel has been given some of the world's most high tech weaponry and as we saw in the Gulf War, numbers do not matter when the enemy has the logistics and technology to thoroughly dismantle you from afar
Three Israel has its own high tech weaponry and exports it to other nations.
Four American isolationism would not only mean less support for Israel, but less support for every Arab monarchy in the land.
People hate Israel because for every one Hamas that is killed three unmentioned Palestinains are accompanied by it. People hate Israel because when someone fires a Kalishankov at a settlement, the innocent family in the house that the soldier fired next to finds its house dismantled and often enough are maimed themselves. People don't hate Israel because of the infantile concept that Bush and his cronies put out after 9/11 "they hate freedom and democracy". The footsoldiers of these insurgent movements are borne after they are persecuted and killed.
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I think RF should make a special smiley/icon for Anti-Semite. It could be very useful in a thread like this.
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Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma
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Natural Philosophy of Life - a simple, elegant, and powerful alternative to religious dogma
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They hate Israel because they have been raised with hate,they hate Israel because they believe it to be an Islamic Waqf and because it says so in their elected Party Hamas Charter,they hate America because it is the great Shaitan because ,as everybody knows America is part of the great Zionist conspiracy
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