How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

I wonder here if like the artists we have different expressions for truth.

Ehh. Depends on the artist. My expressions are my truths. Likewise with religions. That's were we differ....

gotta go...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

1. I've a

You answered it to @Vinayaka by referring to mystical experiences. You said every religion has mystical experiences.

I dont have mystical experiences. However, if everyone is under one-truth you must know what my truth is personally.

Is it god?
Bahaullah?
Krishna?
Muhammad?
Christ?
Buddha?

Is it a feeling?

A scripture of knowledge?

Since you dont take TLC into consideration, what is truth without it?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

1. I've already answered this many different ways but you keep asking it.

2. This chart might have some of what you're after but I'd have to refer you to numerous books to provide all those details. There's just too many to put here but very basic summary. But what connects them is the prophecies in each about another Teacher to come.





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You have to blow upup the chart (and that other one with the lines and numbers). Have bad eyes.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

@loverofhumanity

What is truth without TLC?

How can you make one religion without disgarding them?

 

[Vinayaka]

You answered it to @Vinayaka by referring to mystical experiences. You said every religion has mystical experiences.

The problem here, as I see it, is that 'mystical experiences' is a catch all phrase that can mean a ton. Often the very first thing an individual does because of ego once they have that first mystical experience is to GO TELL EVERYONE ALL ABOUT IT, thus draining any inner power it may have had. We see this a lot, and only after they realise others have had similar or more powerful experiences do they learn to shut up about it. So this could well have been what happened with various 'manifestations' and the followers were just naive enough to believe it was something miraculous. We will never know.

Things it can mean are visions of God, a rush of overwhelming calm, a rush of not-calm, shaking, seeing of light within the head, those 'ah ha!' moments, hearing voices, seeing plants or animals glowing, seeing unseen forces, or angel, and a host of other not normally explained experiences. All this stuff is just side track for the Hindu, and not really paid attention to. The simplistic description is you put it all into one simple phrase ... mystical experience, which is about as meaningless as phrases like 'the culture of Europe'.

 

[Vinayaka]

But justice requires impartiality and detachment from everything incouding onescown opinions and to seek the truth independently with an open and unbiased mind.

Don't you find it odd how people seem to believe their own version is unbiased, yet everyone else is biased? Each individual in 'right versus wrong' religions says , "I'm the unbiased one here!" It's like how pre-school children yelling at each other over some toy, "It's mine!" lol

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem here, as I see it, is that 'mystical experiences' is a catch all phrase that can mean a ton. Often the very first thing an individual does because of ego once they have that first mystical experience is to GO TELL EVERYONE ALL ABOUT IT, thus draining any inner power it may have had. We see this a lot, and only after they realise others have had similar or more powerful experiences do they learn to shut up about it. So this could well have been what happened with various 'manifestations' and the followers were just naive enough to believe it was something miraculous. We will never know.

Things it can mean are visions of God, a rush of overwhelming calm, a rush of not-calm, shaking, seeing of light within the head, those 'ah ha!' moments, hearing voices, seeing plants or animals glowing, seeing unseen forces, or angel, and a host of other not normally explained experiences. All this stuff is just side track for the Hindu, and not really paid attention to. The simplistic description is you put it all into one simple phrase ... mystical experience, which is about as meaningless as phrases like 'the culture of Europe'.

Actually, you have a point. I usually hear it as "spiritual experiences". Since I live in a christian area (and breathe christianity in the air), it's always referred to the having the holy spirit in you or god is talking to you or something similar.

I've had experiences and never separated them but they shock the mess out of me, though. I'd never connect it to Moses and Christ since theirs directly have to do with god as well as Muhammad. Krishna, I honestly don't know.

I mean, people question my "pagan hood" because I don't see "magic" as symbolic but actual literal and part of life just as brushing my teeth and fixing food for breakfast.

Though, I think loverofhumanity is missing the importance of culture, language, and tradition that makes each religious truth different regardless if they believe in a creator, god, or prophet. I don't know lover will get it though.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Chain of events don't cross over because each country has their own religions and have a right to have their religions without making it into one religion. You'd have to answer the question.

A Buddha is a person who has fully understood the nature of suffering and thereby ending rebirth. It has nothing to do with god but the training of the mind and self exploration and in some schools helping others to get understanding while others getting understanding thereby helping others.

A prophet is usually someone sent by someone else. In this case, a prophet is someone who is sent by god. It has nothing to do with the prophet's wisdom. Moses wasn't very smart. It had to do with the role of the prophet in relation to the one who sent them.

The Buddha is not a prophet nor is krishna.

Then that's your right to see it that way and that's fine because you shouldn't accept anything you don't agree with. We all think differently.

 

[Vinayaka]

I mean, people question my "pagan hood" because I don't see "magic" as symbolic but actual literal and part of life just as brushing my teeth and fixing food for breakfast.

That's how I view it. After awhile it gets normalised. Things happen, but so what? Then some 'kid' comes along and starts telling you all about it. I get that on a more mundane level occasionally where born Hindus start telling me all about Hinduism, cause they figure this white guy can't know anything. Sometimes its kind of annoying, other times its funny. All part of the dance. It's like that here too, sometimes funny, sometimes annoying. I tried to describe the deepest possible mystical experience for Hindus, which BTW is not describable by words, and I got the nonchalant reply, "Oh yeah, I've done that." It's laughable, a bit sad, silly, disrespectful, naive, all rolled into one. But hey lots of people are nonchalant about their seriousness in not being outdone by anyone. It's simplistic bragging too.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Don't you find it odd how people seem to believe their own version is unbiased, yet everyone else is biased? Each individual in 'right versus wrong' religions says , "I'm the unbiased one here!" It's like how pre-school children yelling at each other over some toy, "It's mine!" lol

I believe we all have some truth.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Of course. My point again is, given this, I wouldn't go to a Jew to learn about Christ. I wouldn't go to Bahais to learn about Hinduism. Unless we're having a scholarly discussion on the different religions, your interpretation of Hinduism and Krishna in a religious sense is your belief. What Hindu tell me about their beliefs are facts. They aren't ex-practitioners.

There is a huge difference.

You would go to Christians though to learn if the Messiah had come and not the Jews who crucified Him. My whole point is people who are clearly opposed and are not open minded to a new religion are not the people to ask so you should give those who claim to have a new truth a fair hearing and not judge them by those who oppose them.

It's like asking the Muslims if Baha'u'llah is true or not. You're not going to get an honest answer.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You're not addressing my post.

Same as you did with my question that you have yet to answer.

I did my best. I'm just trying my best. Sometimes I feel like I'm on trial. Lol.

I have respect for you but I just answer the best I can and you keep saying it's not good enough. What am I supposed to do?

I gave you a chart with places, timeline etc but if you want more you'll have to do your own research because the info is too large to post here. I can refer you to books.

About your truth and my truth I thought we settled that question way back. And I answered it, maybe you forgot we moved on from that question and now you're asking me it again.

Never mind I'm happy for you to keep asking but try putting it differently or rewording it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You have to blow upup the chart (and that other one with the lines and numbers). Have bad eyes.

You should be able to zoom or enlarge it. I used an iPad and it shows up a decent size if you expand or zoom it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You answered it to @Vinayaka by referring to mystical experiences. You said every religion has mystical experiences.

I dont have mystical experiences. However, if everyone is under one-truth you must know what my truth is personally.

Is it god?
Bahaullah?
Krishna?
Muhammad?
Christ?
Buddha?

Is it a feeling?

A scripture of knowledge?

Since you dont take TLC into consideration, what is truth without it?

It might be a thought or a feeling or just silent peace.

There are things we share in common which don't rely on culture tradition or language such as happiness, contentment , peace, love, unity. I don't have to be a Christian to know what love is or a Buddhist to know how to meditate or a Muslim to know how to pray.

They may be able to help,us do these things better but these things are not exclusive to any particular religion, tradition, custom or culture.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Then that's your right to see it that way and that's fine because you shouldn't accept anything you don't agree with. We all think differently.

These arent beliefs, these are facts based on their religious scripture. I have differi g personal opinions about each faith but address the facts.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You should be able to zoom or enlarge it. I used an iPad and it shows up a decent size if you expand or zoom it.

Starting left to right. How does krishna lead to moses. Progression of dates doesnt mean its a chain because you are saying these people relate to each other. There are a lot of religious founders in between.

I already said krishna hinduism is before judaism. How do they relate historically?



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Starting left to right. How does krishna lead to moses. Progression of dates doesnt mean its a chain because you are saying these people relate to each other. There are a lot of religious founders in between.

I already said krishna hinduism is before judaism. How do they relate historically?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I did my best. I'm just trying my best. Sometimes I feel like I'm on trial. Lol.

I have respect for you but I just answer the best I can and you keep saying it's not good enough. What am I supposed to do?

I gave you a chart with places, timeline etc but if you want more you'll have to do your own research because the info is too large to post here. I can refer you to books.

About your truth and my truth I thought we settled that question way back. And I answered it, maybe you forgot we moved on from that question and now you're asking me it again.

Never mind I'm happy for you to keep asking but try putting it differently or rewording it.

A trial.... let me get to a computer but yeah, seems that way.

My whole point is TLC and one truth and the facts of how this is possible without discarding peoples religions

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It might be a thought or a feeling or just silent peace.

There are things we share in common which don't rely on culture tradition or language such as happiness, contentment , peace, love, unity. I don't have to be a Christian to know what love is or a Buddhist to know how to meditate or a Muslim to know how to pray.

They may be able to help,us do these things better but these things are not exclusive to any particular religion, tradition, custom or culture.

Actually, all of those things you mention depend on religion, tradition, custom, and culture.

It's funny I'm talking about this because I didn't know "Americans" had a culture. I'm studying Deaf culture and ASL to be an American Sign Language interpreter and it is very heavily emphasised that you cannot have language (and beliefs for that matter) without the culture that shapes it.


For example, your definition of happiness may be different than my definition. These are not different expressions of the same thing.

These are totally different definitions and different experiences that what you call mystical experience I can call taking a shower. How you are raised, your language, and everything shapes who you are as a person and your beliefs. If not, you are saying you were born isolated, no family, in the middle of no where, even though you developed a language, probably have your own native language, customs and cultures behind what you do, but then you separate all of these things from how you define happiness?

I know I'm western cultured, but I find that quite strange. Not just for Bahai but just in general.

An atheist definition of love an peace is different than a christian's definition.

The very fact that an atheist does not believe in christ does not mean he shares at all the same feeling of happiness a christian feels.

That's like saying you and I share the same flavor of ice cream even though you are eating vanilla and I like chocolate regardless if we are eating the same desert. The taste is different. You have to recognize these differences as more than flavors but the actual ice cream itself. In your mind you could be picturing rocky road ice cream. To me, I could be picturing actually going out in the barn, milking a cow, and making ice cream from scratch.

These expressions are truths. Since they are different, the truths are different. Your definition of love is different than my definition. I mean, I barely use the term and don't associate it to anything spiritual.

You use mystical experience I say it is expression. You disregard TLC, I say without TLC you have no love, and all of that.

It is embedded in each other. If you have gone to another country, say a Muslim country, you can see that off the bat. I mean, if I went to a Muslim country with no sleeves, no burka, and just decide to mosey along like I can where I live, that won't fly. I can get arrested.

These cultural norms are built into every religion. I mean, even UU respects other people's religions and expressions without mixing the two by disregarding their TLC. Bahai is the only religion that I know that disregards TLC and says love is the same for all people when it is not.

The very fact that you are not Hindu does not make me have any spiritual understanding of who Krishna is because a practicing Hindu who worships Krishna and Vishnu would have a totally different perspective of love than you because it is defined by their traditions, culture, and language.

Without that, there is no Hinduism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Buddhism.

Do you understand?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It's like asking the Muslims if Baha'u'llah is true or not. You're not going to get an honest answer.

My point is, I wouldn't. Just as I wouldn't go to you for information about Krishna. I can cross reference it to what a Hindu who worships Vishnu about it.

So, when you have other religions into your religion, it's hard to ask you about what you actually believe because Hindu says Krishna is X and Bahaullah says Krishna is Y. You believe the latter but then say you believe in Krishna and Hinduism. Then top if of you connect their truths with Moses and The Buddha while disregarding the TLC that make their religions what it is.

Your religion is quite discombobulated, if that's the right word.

Unless you say what you believe is not Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, and Christianity, what you are saying doesn't make sense when comparing it to the actual faith and practitioners (current ones) who know personally about their own religion than any ex-practitioner (myself included) and bahai would know.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I did my best. I'm just trying my best. Sometimes I feel like I'm on trial. Lol.

Well, you're representing yourself so of course we're going to ask more questions.

My truth and your truth is just asking how love is the same love for me and you when our love is shaped by our cultural, tradition, and language.

I honestly don't see how you miss that?

Maybe my question is why do you think culture, language, and tradition are not embedded and define spirituality and mystical experiences?

I can't see the division you're making between the two.