How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

You keep stating your opinion as it it were fact. lol.

Because I don't believe in sacred manifestations, there is nothing to prove. Certainly the later 3 'manifestations' you mention (I would call them historical personalities, and one I'm not sure existed) have proved they were capable of causing a lot of mischief, I suppose, yes?

You and I won't be around in the same ego/personality of this lifetime. Look at ancient civilisations like the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and others. Where are they now?

But then ... oh yeah, those darn Hindus, for some reason, (hint, it isn't manifestations) they're still around, just as relevant as they were 4000+ years ago, despite several nasty invasions or attempted genocides. Pesky guys just won't go away, much like on this thread, lol.

it's a privilege having Hindus around generating ahimsa as it makes this world a much better place.

I believe the Manifestations were perfect Beings Who each came with a specific mission to help humanity spiritually at the time they appeared.

 

[Vinayaka]

it's a privilege having Hindus around generating ahimsa as it makes this world a much better place.

I believe

That's more polite. Thanks.

Yes, imagine trying to build that Bahai temple in Iran.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Youre not addressing my points nor answering my questions.

You can disagree with the Church all day but that does not change

1. Catholics worship christ only
2 Catholicm is a communal faith
3. Cathoics get help from all of christ family and devotes in heaven and on earth
4.Catholicism is based on scripture And oral traditions passed down by the apostles

You can learn from it but disagreeing wont change these facts.

I'm good with the Catholic Church having reverence for the family of Christ and praying to Mary. I do struggle with praying to statues of Mary and Jesus and praying to them. I suppose these statues are symbolic and in some way represent the actual Mary and Jesus. The OT writers were not keen on making images or idols of the Divine.

 

[CG Didymus]

...The main proof lies in with the life and teachings of the manifestation of God. Those teachings need to have the power to transform our lives....

But even things like Scientology change lives. All the different ways people believe in Jesus change lives. So because some of these beliefs are false, what really causes the changing? Ultimately, to me, it's only because a person puts their trust in someone or some teaching, and because religious teachers and their teaching have some positive things in them, a person changes for the good.... no matter how weird or out in left field those teachings my be. Forget Scientology, to many of us mainstream religions are out in left field... but if believed and followed, lives change. So are some religions nothing more than a placebo?

 

[CG Didymus]

I'm good with the Catholic Church having reverence for the family of Christ and praying to Mary. I do struggle with praying to statues of Mary and Jesus and praying to them. I suppose these statues are symbolic and in some way represent the actual Mary and Jesus. The OT writers were not keen on making images or idols of the Divine.

Neither are Protestants.

 

[CG Didymus]

About all I can see from an outsider's POV as core differences between Abrahamic faiths is the name of the prophet. Beyond that, they all seem eerily similar.

Infallibility, proselytizing, I'm right, you're wrong, the chosen people, one life, dualistic, intellectual. So very much in common.

Now you're beginning to see, some religions are one.

 

[CG Didymus]

According to the Baha'i Writings, the Manifestations of God are sinless. The story in the Bible we found not believe it to be a true story but to teach us certain lessons.

“The account of Adam and Eve, their eating from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise are therefore symbols and divine mysteries. They have all-embracing meanings and marvellous interpretations, but only the intimates of the divine mysteries and the well-favoured of the all-sufficing Lord are aware of the true significance of these symbols.”

Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.

Hmmm? So God dictated to Moses to write the first five books. He told the stories as if they were real events. So God mislead the Jews and the Christians all these years? The poor pitiful Young Earth Creationists

So Creation, symbolic, The Flood, symbolic. So when does the supposed historical events that the Bible talks about start to be real events with real people?

 

[CG Didymus]

You may have guessed by now but I'm not your typical Baha'i. I don't view the messengers as the Manifestation but rather either influence (controlled) by it or possessed by it.
I believe there is only one Manifestation and it is reachable and has been reached by multitudes of mystics of all religions throughout history. The difference between a mystic and a messenger is that the manifestation seeks out the messenger for a mission, while it is the mystic that seeks out the manifestation, usually to gain some type of enlightenment.

I'm glad you're not typical, because that was one of the worries some of us have seen, that the Baha'is see the world only through a Baha'i lens. The way born again Christians see it the way their interpretation of the Bible says.

 

[arthra]

Hmmm? So God dictated to Moses to write the first five books. He told the stories as if they were real events. So God mislead the Jews and the Christians all these years? The poor pitiful Young Earth Creationists So Creation, symbolic, The Flood, symbolic. So when does the supposed historical events that the Bible talks about start to be real events with real people?

Moses received Divine revelation and the social teachings needed for the age and circumstances of the time that were needed. The stories were already there in an earlier rudimentary form and the stories were re-told to convey a message for the people of the time they were revealed in. The "real" people were around when the revelation appeared.. Moses and through Him the covenant uniting the tribes and the journey across the Sinai and establishing the foundations for the settling of the promised land.

 

[CG Didymus]

Each Manifestation proves His legitimacy over time. Their truth endures over centuries and ages while the others just fade away into oblivion.

Let's wait and see.

Speaking of oblivion, What ever happened to the Bab and his book? His whole religion has been swallowed up by the Baha'i Faith. If he was a manifestation, then how could his teaching disappear so fast? What exactly did he teach other than that Baha'u'llah was soon to arrive?

 

[CG Didymus]

Moses received Divine revelation and the social teachings needed for the age and circumstances of the time that were needed. The stories were already there in an earlier rudimentary form and the stories were re-told to convey a message for the people of the time they were revealed in. The "real" people were around when the revelation appeared.. Moses and through Him the covenant uniting the tribes and the journey across the Sinai and establishing the foundations for the settling of the promised land.

So why do born again Christians still believe all those things literally happened? In fact when they preach to me, they show in their book. They say, "You see it's all here in God's Word. This is what happened and this is the truth."

 

[arthra]

Speaking of oblivion, What ever happened to the Bab and his book? His whole religion has been swallowed up by the Baha'i Faith. If he was a manifestation, then how could his teaching disappear so fast? What exactly did he teach other than that Baha'u'llah was soon to arrive?

The spiritual teachings of the Bab are still revered and built upon . The Bab promised "Him whom God would make manifest" and that promise was fulfilled... The Bab as the predecessor of Baha'u'llah prepared the way... The Writings of the Bab are still sacred and revered. His dispensation was short.. nineteen years 1844 - 1863.

 

[arthra]

So why do born again Christians still believe all those things literally happened? In fact when they preach to me, they show in their book. They say, "You see it's all here in God's Word. This is what happened and this is the truth."

People are free to believe what they wish.. while we don't encourage literal interpretations it's their choice to believe as they wish.

 

[CG Didymus]

You keep stating your opinion as it it were fact. lol.

Because I don't believe in sacred manifestations, there is nothing to prove. Certainly the later 3 'manifestations' you mention (I would call them historical personalities, and one I'm not sure existed) have proved they were capable of causing a lot of mischief, I suppose, yes?

You and I won't be around in the same ego/personality of this lifetime. Look at ancient civilisations like the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and others. Where are they now?

But then ... oh yeah, those darn Hindus, for some reason, (hint, it isn't manifestations) they're still around, just as relevant as they were 4000+ years ago, despite several nasty invasions or attempted genocides. Pesky guys just won't go away, much like on this thread, lol.

I keep asking about the Greeks and Romans and Egyptians and all the other great civilizations. I guess even Persia had a great civilization. So what about their religions? The Baha'is don't seem to include the gods and prophets from those religions at all. Osiris and Mithra and who knows who else.

 

[CG Didymus]

The spiritual teachings of the Bab are still revered and built upon . The Bab promised "Him whom God would make manifest" and that promise was fulfilled... The Bab as the predecessor of Baha'u'llah prepared the way... The Writings of the Bab are still sacred and revered. His dispensation was short.. nineteen years 1844 - 1863.

Is his book available to read?

 

[CG Didymus]

People are free to believe what they wish.. while we don't encourage literal interpretations it's their choice to believe as they wish.

At some point, we don't allow people to believe what they wish. It wasn't that long ago that the Europeans outlawed the religions of the native people in the different lands they took over. Even now, people try to put a stop to religious cults to protect the followers from doing something rash. Anyway, I'm going to be gone for the weekend. I'll catch up to you on Monday. Thanks

 

[arthra]

I keep asking about the Greeks and Romans and Egyptians and all the other great civilizations. I guess even Persia had a great civilization. So what about their religions? The Baha'is don't seem to include the gods and prophets from those religions at all. Osiris and Mithra and who knows who else.

We acknowledge there were many Manifestations .. however the records have been lost. There are we believe traces of previous Manifestations.

And now regarding thy question, "How is it that no records are to be found concerning the Prophets that have preceded Adam, the Father of Mankind, or of the kings that lived in the days of those Prophets?" Know thou that the absence of any reference to them is no proof that they did not actually exist. That no records concerning them are now available, should be attributed to their extreme remoteness, as well as to the vast changes which the earth hath undergone since their time.

Moreover such forms and modes of writing as are now current amongst men were unknown to the generations that were before Adam. There was even a time when men were wholly ignorant of the art of writing, and had adopted a system entirely different from the one which they now use. For a proper exposition of this an elaborate explanation would be required.

(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 172)


The Christ was the word of God from the beginning - in the same way Mohammed says, "I was a prophet before the existence of Adam," and Baha'o'llah says, "In the beginning which has no beginning I loved thee."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 51)

 

[arthra]

Is his book available to read?

The Writings of the Bab are still intact.. at least those that were not destroyed... The Kitab-i-Asma is the largest revealed book in the history of religion.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb

 

[Esoqq]

I'm glad you're not typical, because that was one of the worries some of us have seen, that the Baha'is see the world only through a Baha'i lens. The way born again Christians see it the way their interpretation of the Bible says.

There are narrow minded and/or closed minded people in every belief system and that's ok as long as their faith works for them. Faith is something that in my opinion can not be invalidated. Faith though is not the same thing as belief. Belief can be challenged as it's source is external. Faith on the other hand is internal.
Unfortunately, most people I've encountered have belief but not faith which is why they feel the need to defend their belief system. This includes Atheists as well as Theists. The difficulty Atheists face is that they have no faith, only belief and that's why they tend to be rather argumentative.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's more polite. Thanks.

Yes, imagine trying to build that Bahai temple in Iran.

My main hope and concern is once we Baha'is overcome all this oppression like in Iran, we don't start becoming oppressors ourselves. Although the Universal House of Justice are guaranteed to stay on the right and good path, we as individuals have no such guarantee.

Hopefully we can contribute something worthwhile to humanity before our decline and all religions do suffer decline and have always opposed the next Manifestation.