How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

Speaking of oblivion, What ever happened to the Bab and his book? His whole religion has been swallowed up by the Baha'i Faith. If he was a manifestation, then how could his teaching disappear so fast? What exactly did he teach other than that Baha'u'llah was soon to arrive?

Firstly, have a nice time and if Easter then Happy Easter.

That was the whole purpose of His Mission. To prepare the way for Baha'u'llah by creating a revolution whereby people would be able to turn to a new Prophet.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Hmmm? So God dictated to Moses to write the first five books. He told the stories as if they were real events. So God mislead the Jews and the Christians all these years? The poor pitiful Young Earth Creationists

So Creation, symbolic, The Flood, symbolic. So when does the supposed historical events that the Bible talks about start to be real events with real people?

There's so much we cannot know because we weren't there. All we can know is from pre existent Manifestations. If we can't trust their version then we are completely lost as they were around then to know such things.

Baha'u'llah is the One Who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush so for me personally I have full faith and confidence in what He says about Moses or the Torah.

 

[Dawnofhope]

But even things like Scientology change lives.

That is true, but because it is based on teachings that are demonstrably false the effects are unlikely to endure. Jesus talks about us building our lives on the best foundation. Matthew 7:24-27

All the different ways people believe in Jesus change lives.

Not always for the better through. Some become religious bigots.

So because some of these beliefs are false, what really causes the changing? Ultimately, to me, it's only because a person puts their trust in someone or some teaching, and because religious teachers and their teaching have some positive things in them, a person changes for the good.... no matter how weird or out in left field those teachings my be.

For enduring change it comes down to faith and actions.

Forget Scientology, to many of us mainstream religions are out in left field... but if believed and followed, lives change. So are some religions nothing more than a placebo?

If religions are not founded on Divine inspiration then they are nothing more than placebo IMHO. This is the issue where people believe or stop believing. Many as you are aware no longer see religion as necessary or relevant.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To tell you honestly, I don't understand why people don't get it. The only thing I can think of is it's religious in nature and maybe that influences the logic or common sense in things or...

I'm good with the Catholic Church having reverence for the family of Christ and praying to Mary. I do struggle with praying to statues of Mary and Jesus and praying to them. I suppose these statues are symbolic and in some way represent the actual Mary and Jesus. The OT writers were not keen on making images or idols of the Divine.

Hmm. Symbolic emm

If I used that term, yes. When a Catholic prays to jesus in front of a statue of him (or any statue really), that Catholic is remembering and reflecting on Christ passion (or whatever that Catholic is praying for or about).

For example, my favorite statue in the Church was Mary holding her Son (next post; didn't fit)

I'd pray in front of the statue (some rub his feet even) because, especially after confession, it reminded me of immoral actions I can change that should "die on the cross." It's emotional because when you see your sins "die on the cross" because jesus as flesh/sin died then when you put those two together (from as far as I understand as a weird christian) you really see christ "dying for (or as) your sins."

This doesn't come from a statue. It's just a block of marble. Just it also does remind me of all the things my mother had to go through when taking care of me and my illness. So, it reminds me of staying alive for the sake of family.

There are a lot of statues that Catholics go to that calls to them. Saint Francis is another statue where he talks about god through nature. St. Thomas is another who studies the theology of religion. So it's interesting to go to him with a good chit chat.

Remember, Catholics (and myself) don't believe people actually die. We don't believe in symbolic death. There are actual spirits living (they believe in heaven and I believe are on earth) and they actually communicate with you. If a person can see that in a picture of their Aunt Samie who died last week or a Catholic who sees her salvation in an image of a statue, like the bible, they are just different means of reflection and worship.

To tell you honestly, the "praying to statues" is the weirdest argument against the Church I every heard of. I heard many that made somewhat sense though people are misguided from a Catholic view. But praying to statues! That's like my praying over my meal and someone saying I'm praying to my pancakes and eggs.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

 

[Evie]

T

You also say that Catholics get help from all of Christ's family. The Bible says: quote/. 'My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.' Psalms 121:2. I do not see any reference to family.

To tell you honestly, I don't understand why people don't get it. The only thing I can think of is it's religious in nature and maybe that influences the logic or common sense in things or...



Hmm. Symbolic emm

If I used that term, yes. When a Catholic prays to jesus in front of a statue (or any statue really) of him, that Catholic is remembering and reflecting on Christ passion (or whatever that Catholic is praying for or about).

For example, my favorite statue in the Church was Mary holding her Son (next post; didn't fit)

I'd pray in front of the statue (some rub his feet even) because, especially after confession, it reminded me of immoral actions I can change that should "die on the cross." It's emotional because when you see your sins "die on the cross" because jesus as flesh/sin died then when you put those two together (from as far as I understand as a weird christian) you really see christ "dying for (or as) your sins."

This doesn't come from a statue. It's just a block of marble. Just it also does remind me of all the things my mother had to go through when taking care of me and my illness. So, it reminds me of staying a life for the sake of family.

There are a lot of statues that Catholics go to that calls to them. Saint Francis is another statue where he talks about god through nature. St. Thomas is another who studies the theology of religion. So it's interesting to go to him with a good chit chat.

Remember, Catholics (and myself) don't believe people actually die. We don't believe in symbolic death. There are actual spirits living (they believe in heaven and I believe are on earth) and they actually communicate with you. If a person can see that in a picture of their Aunt Samie who died last week or a Catholic who sees her salvation in an image of a statue, like the bible, they are just different means of reflection and worship.

To tell you honestly, the "praying to statues" is the weirdest argument against the Church I every heard of. I heard many that made somewhat sense though people are misguided from a Catholic view. But praying to statues! That's like my praying over my meal and someone saying I'm praying to my pancakes and eggs.

to Carlita: regarding family of Jesus being what you are saying. Matthew 12: 46-50. Jesus' mother and brothers. Jesus was talking to the crowd and someone told Him 'your mother and brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.' Jesus said, pointing to His disciples, here are my mother and my brothers'.

 

[Dawnofhope]

To tell you honestly, I don't understand why people don't get it. The only thing I can think of is it's religious in nature and maybe that influences the logic or common sense in things or...



Hmm. Symbolic emm

If I used that term, yes. When a Catholic prays to jesus in front of a statue of him (or any statue really), that Catholic is remembering and reflecting on Christ passion (or whatever that Catholic is praying for or about).

For example, my favorite statue in the Church was Mary holding her Son (next post; didn't fit)

I'd pray in front of the statue (some rub his feet even) because, especially after confession, it reminded me of immoral actions I can change that should "die on the cross." It's emotional because when you see your sins "die on the cross" because jesus as flesh/sin died then when you put those two together (from as far as I understand as a weird christian) you really see christ "dying for (or as) your sins."

This doesn't come from a statue. It's just a block of marble. Just it also does remind me of all the things my mother had to go through when taking care of me and my illness. So, it reminds me of staying alive for the sake of family.

There are a lot of statues that Catholics go to that calls to them. Saint Francis is another statue where he talks about god through nature. St. Thomas is another who studies the theology of religion. So it's interesting to go to him with a good chit chat.

Remember, Catholics (and myself) don't believe people actually die. We don't believe in symbolic death. There are actual spirits living (they believe in heaven and I believe are on earth) and they actually communicate with you. If a person can see that in a picture of their Aunt Samie who died last week or a Catholic who sees her salvation in an image of a statue, like the bible, they are just different means of reflection and worship.

To tell you honestly, the "praying to statues" is the weirdest argument against the Church I every heard of. I heard many that made somewhat sense though people are misguided from a Catholic view. But praying to statues! That's like my praying over my meal and someone saying I'm praying to my pancakes and eggs.

I'm more curious than wanting to criticise the Catholics. Praying to statues is clearly filled with meaning for you and the photo you have included looks beautiful. It has never been part of my faith but thank you for sharing why it has been so important for you.

I thought you did not believe in life after death? Now you do? Baha'is believe in prayer to ancestors as well.

Enjoy your pancakes and eggs.

 

[Evie]

Y

T


to Carlita: regarding family of Jesus being what you are saying. Matthew 12: 46-50. Jesus' mother and brothers. Jesus was talking to the crowd and someone told Him 'your mother and brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.' Jesus said, pointing to His disciples, here are my mother and my brothers'.

Jesus did not even go and speak to her and His brothers.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

T


to Carlita: regarding family of Jesus being what you are saying. Matthew 12: 46-50. Jesus' mother and brothers. Jesus was talking to the crowd and someone told Him 'your mother and brothers are standing outside wanting to speak to you.' Jesus said, pointing to His disciples, here are my mother and my brothers'.

Family meaning: jesus biological family, devotees, christians, and followers. The body of Christ.

Catholics pray for and to the body of christ because they don't believe people die and they believe that they can learn about christ and god from his whole family not just christ himself. It's a communal faith.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm more curious than wanting to criticise the Catholics. Praying to statues is clearly filled with meaning for you and the photo you have included looks beautiful. It has never been part of my faith but thank you for sharing why it has been so important for you.

I thought you did not believe in life after death? Now you do? Baha'is believe in prayer to ancestors as well.

Enjoy your pancakes and eggs.

Thank you.

Haha. Yeah, I do. I wouldn't call it that since it's life after life. I believe spirits are on earth (our family etc) so they take care of their own living family members. Just a couple days ago, my mother and I were talking about her mother talking to her recently. My mother is far from religious but when we talk about spirits and things (I just use the term on RF) or our family we talk about them because they are here.

But, yeah. I understand people have different beliefs but hopefully instead of criticizing different beliefs other people want to learn from them.

 

[Evie]

The Bible says: quote.'the dead know nothing'. I could look the scriptures up and forward them. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says. 'The dead know not anything'.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Y

Jesus did not even go and speak to her and His brothers.

So jesus whole life is limited to the words of the apostles?

Not understanding here. If jesus was human, had a human family, and human apostles, did he psychically talk to them? the pharisee?

I have no clue where you're coming from?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bible says: quote.'the dead know nothing'. I could look the scriptures up and forward them. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says. 'The dead know not anything'.

There are no dead. The dead the bible speaks of are people dead of christ. People who have christ are not dead. Catholics don't believe people who believed in god are dead. That would be hypocritical because that's like saying you will be dead and never go to heaven as well but when your physical body dies, you are still alive in spirit. Who goes to heaven if your spirit isn't eternal?

Romans 8:10 "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness."

Catholics believe the physical body is dead to sin (hence the need for salvation). However, because they are christian and have a relationship with christ, they believe their spirits live.

As for mary, mary is the mother of christ. Remember:

1. Catholicism is a communal faith
2. Catholicism is based on the bible through scripture and oral traditions. Not all teachings are in the bible (as in physically written) or it would be a pretty large book.
3. That, and the Church not protestants were the ones who said which books were inspired.

So all in all, Evie, the best way to get spiritual knowledge from Christ rather than selected books from The Church if you don't care for their teachings much, what does Christ himself tell you about his father?

I mean, the bible says that people look to scripture for eternal life. Christ (according to the apostles) was pretty upset about that. He said even (hebrew) scripture testifies to him. So don't go to scripture go to Christ. If you can't tell the difference between the two, I personally feel you and many others are dependant on scripture as if it were christ. If christ is god, that's idolism.

What does christ say?

 

[Evie]

Y

Family meaning: jesus biological family, devotees, christians, and followers. The body of Christ.

Catholics pray for and to the body of christ because they don't believe people die and they believe that they can learn about christ and god from his whole family not just christ himself. It's a communal faith.

Yesterday you specifically said Mary was of importance, maybe not those exact words, but even Jesus Himself did not accord her any form of privilege. He did not even go out and speak to her. I am not putting Mary down, I am saying that how she is being revered is not biblical.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Y

Yesterday you specifically said Mary was of importance, maybe not those exact words, but even Jesus Himself did not accord her any form of privilege. He did not even go out and speak to her. I am not putting Mary down, I am saying that how she is being revered is not biblical.

The reason Mary is important is the fact she is the mother of christ. She isn't just "any" mother but the mother of your savior. That's basically it.

He didn't speak to his own mother? Limiting jesus to the bible is like limiting you to a family album and stories your family has about you and if it doesn't say you talked with your grandparents, I will say you did not. Rather than it's just not mentioned so there is no way to know.

But why wouldn't jesus talk to his own mother? Step away from the bible and think about it realistically. Why wouldn't he talk to his parents at an older age not just "but I had to worship at my father's house." or "this is my mother who I am well please" and isolated verses like that. But if jesus whole life was put into the bible, it (like our lives) would be pretty thick, won't you think?

 

[Evie]

There are no dead. The dead the bible speaks of are people dead of christ. People who have christ are not dead. Catholics don't believe people who believed in god are dead. That would be hypocritical because that's like saying you will be dead and never go to heaven as well but when your physical body dies, you are still alive in spirit. Who goes to heaven if your spirit isn't eternal?

Well all I can go by is God's Written Word. Also, in Ecclesiastes 9:6. scripture goes on to say. Quote: Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.'

 

[Evie]

The reason Mary is important is the fact she is the mother of christ. She isn't just "any" mother but the mother of your savior. That's basically it.

He didn't speak to his own mother? Limiting jesus to the bible is like limiting you to a family album and stories your family has about you and if it doesn't say you talked with your grandparents, I will say you did not. Rather than it's just not mentioned so there is no way to know.

But why wouldn't jesus talk to his own mother? Step away from the bible and think about it realistically. Why wouldn't he talk to his parents at an older age not just "but I had to worship at my father's house." or "this is my mother who I am well please" and isolated verses like that. But if jesus whole life was put into the bible, it (like our lives) would be pretty thick, won't you think?

All I seek is the truth. I don't profess to be right in what I say. But I do solemnly believe the Bible is God's Written Word. Many say it is full of contradictions, but that is not how I see it. It is Written: to me that is it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well all I can go by is God's Written Word. Also, in Ecclesiastes 9:6. scripture goes on to say. Quote: Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.'

All the verses you are quoting are in the Catholic bible and in their Catechism. You're just repeating what they already believe.

The difference between Catholics and yourself is that they believe in worshiping as one body (coming together in christ) and they believe in continuous oral traditions of the apostles. Don't don't feel the apostles jus stopped talking at a certain era.

I mean, what time period did people all of the sudden think the present is separate from the past?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

All I seek is the truth. I don't profess to be right in what I say. But I do solemnly believe the Bible is God's Written Word. Many say it is full of contradictions, but that is not how I see it. It is Written: to me that is it.

Think about it, though. If the bible is literally real, the events are set in real time. Between 2,000 years or so, supernaturalism just didn't disappear, right? People still commune. Languages emerge. Things still change. I mean, my great grandmother would probably never thought her children would experience the great depression. Different things happen in different time periods.

Jesus was a jew. I notice Jewish culture like many cultures are family oriented. Why wouldn't christ talk to his family if he is in real time and in real life with real friends and a real family?

 

[Evie]

There are no dead. The dead the bible speaks of are people dead of christ. People who have christ are not dead. Catholics don't believe people who believed in god are dead. That would be hypocritical because that's like saying you will be dead and never go to heaven as well but when your physical body dies, you are still alive in spirit. Who goes to heaven if your spirit isn't eternal?

Romans 8:10 "If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness."

Catholics believe the physical body is dead to sin (hence the need for salvation). However, because they are christian and have a relationship with christ, they believe their spirits live.

As for mary, mary is the mother of christ. Remember:

1. Catholicism is a communal faith
2. Catholicism is based on the bible through scripture and oral traditions. Not all teachings are in the bible (as in physically written) or it would be a pretty large book.
3. That, and the Church not protestants were the ones who said which books were inspired.

So all in all, Evie, the best way to get spiritual knowledge from Christ rather than selected books from The Church if you don't care for their teachings much, what does Christ himself tell you about his father?

I mean, the bible says that people look to scripture for eternal life. Christ (according to the apostles) was pretty upset about that. He said even (hebrew) scripture testifies to him. So don't go to scripture go to Christ. If you can't tell the difference between the two, I personally feel you and many others are dependant on scripture as if it were christ. If christ is god, that's idolism.

What does christ say?

Jesus said the Spirit of Truth will come and lead us into all truth. That is in scripture. He did not say his mother Mary and others in heaven would help us. No scripture even remotely similar.