How are these Great Beings explained?

[Unveiled Artist]

I will repeat. No such words from God,s mouth as to pray to Mary.

I will repeat. Does something absent in the bible make X a sin?

Again. Catholicism is a communal denomination where everyone ssints and christians are one body.

If a christian goes to the bible they are not learning about christ by praying directly. They are praying by the words of apostles.

Catholicism is not sola dcriptura. Again, catholics see the oram tradition of the church (linkage of the apostles) as authority just as the bible.

Why consult the bible to talk to christ? Talk to him directly.

 

[Evie]

I will repeat. Does something absent in the bible make X a sin?

Again. Catholicism is a communal denomination where everyone ssints and christians are one body.

If a christian goes to the bible they are not learning about christ by praying directly. They are praying by the words of apostles.

Catholicism is not sola dcriptura. Again, catholics see the oram tradition of the church (linkage of the apostles) as authority just as the bible.

Why consult the bible to talk to christ? Talk to him directly.

The Bible IS the Word. And the Word IS with God. And the Word IS Jesus. are entwined. Inseparable.

 

[loverofhumanity]

In your mind, yes.

Yes. I can only speak for myself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Bible IS the Word. And the Word IS with God. And the Word IS Jesus. are entwined. Inseparable.

You didnt answer my questions nor addressed my points.

 

[Evie]

You didnt answer my questions nor addressed my points.

The points you make are not biblical. I am Bible based. Unfortunately' a number of religious teachings are not all Bible based, and they should be if they claim Jesus is the core of their belief.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No, I said Christianity says Adam was brought sin into the world. A negative. You said that Moses confirmed Adam. What did Moses say about Adam?

According to the Baha'i Writings, the Manifestations of God are sinless. The story in the Bible we found not believe it to be a true story but to teach us certain lessons.

“The account of Adam and Eve, their eating from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise are therefore symbols and divine mysteries. They have all-embracing meanings and marvellous interpretations, but only the intimates of the divine mysteries and the well-favoured of the all-sufficing Lord are aware of the true significance of these symbols.”

Bahá, Abdu’l. “Some Answered Questions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That is true, but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I have a great deal of experience with Christianity so have no qualms about connecting the Baha'i Faith to Christianity. Its very important that people who answer these types of questions, are qualified to do so. I'm not. We need a Baha'i who can. @loverofhumanity and @arthra have put their hands up to engage in that conversation.

I have already posted about Kalki quite a large post. Shoghi Effendi identifies a Baha'u'llah with the 'tenth Avatar' which is referring to the tenth Avatar of Vishnu which is Kalki.

The events of Kalki such as His travels and being born in a prominent family and His mission being to destroy evil kings are all events also in the Life of Baha'u'llah.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The points you make are not biblical. I am Bible based. Unfortunately' a number of religious teachings are not all Bible based, and they should be if they claim Jesus is the core of their belief.

That would mean you can only pray "our father" any other type of prayer is against scripture because its not there?

You cant have religious concerts because thats not in scripture? (Though they didnt have flash lights back then)

The Churcb is bible based. Catholics dont limit their communion. They have it with the whole body. Once physical death does not separate a person just as youre not separated from your family.

My great aunt in the country south didnt have electricity. She said she was trying to live in the bible days. No heat. Just a fire in a fire place and rocking her her rocking chair with the king james bible in her lap.

People worship differently. Youre sola scriptur others worship straight from the heart without bible dependency. Others worship with the body of christ. While others are independent.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sounds like we are starting to say very similar things in different ways.

Yes, I have very little problem with Bahai beliefs (I don't mean I agree with them but I mean accepting that you have every right to believe it.) I apply the same tolerance to all my Abrahamic friends. It's when someone starts misinterpreting, or telling lies about Hinduism that it gets annoying. For Bahai, it's the nonsensical extension, but for evangelical Christians it's often just a total focus on a false narrative and misinterpretation. Especially for the illiterate Hindu in the old or village days, this made them naive to the lies and subject to conversion by believing stuff that wasn't true.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have already posted about Kalki quite a large post. Shoghi Effendi identifies a Baha'u'llah with the 'tenth Avatar' which is referring to the tenth Avatar of Vishnu which is Kalki.

The events of Kalki such as His travels and being born in a prominent family and His mission being to destroy evil kings are all events also in the Life of Baha'u'llah.

And you still don't see a problem with this, do you? So if some other person came along and said that they were the next great manifestation, or told outright lies about Bahai, you would be totally fine with it? If you can honestly say that, fine, but it certainly reeks of a double standard.

 

[Evie]

That would mean you can only pray "our father" any other type of prayer is against scripture because its not there?

You cant have religious concerts because thats not in scripture? (Though they didnt have flash lights back then)

The Churcb is bible based. Catholics dont limit their communion. They have it with the whole body. Once physical death does not separate a person just as youre not separated from your family.

My great aunt in the country south didnt have electricity. She said she was trying to live in the bible days. No heat. Just a fire in a fire place and rocking her her rocking chair with the king james bible in her lap.

People worship differently. Youre sola scriptur others worship straight from the heart without bible dependency. Others worship with the body of christ. While others are independent.

you are grasping at straws.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

you are grasping at straws.

Youre not addressing my points nor answering my questions.

You can disagree with the Church all day but that does not change

1. Catholics worship christ only
2 Catholicm is a communal faith
3. Cathoics get help from all of christ family and devotes in heaven and on earth
4.Catholicism is based on scripture And oral traditions passed down by the apostles

You can learn from it but disagreeing wont change these facts.

 

[Evie]

you are grasping at straws.

God is sad and offended that you pray to Mary. I know I would be if my son went through what Jesus did only to observe someone else being venerated and prayed to. One day you will sense God's sadness. I know I do. I consider Jesus broken and bleeding body nailed to the cross and I picture people bowing and praying to Mary. This is exactly how God would be viewing it. And my certainty comes from knowing that it is absolutely not Biblical. And that is something that is truth. And truth cannot be denied.

 

[Evie]

God is sad and offended that you pray to Mary. I know I would be if my son went through what Jesus did only to observe someone else being venerated and prayed to. One day you will sense God's sadness. I know I do. I consider Jesus broken and bleeding body nailed to the cross and I picture people bowing and praying to Mary. This is exactly how God would be viewing it. And my certainty comes from knowing that it is absolutely not Biblical. And that is something that is truth. And truth cannot be denied.

you say the church traditions were passed down from the apostles. show me where any one of the apostles advocates praying to Mary.

 

[Evie]

It would be interesting to know when the practise of praying to Mary began. Why it began and by whom. We do know it was absolutely not God, or such a practice would be in the Bible. The Bible is a very large book, and not one single word to back up the practise.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It would be interesting to know when the practise of praying to Mary began. Why it began and by whom. We do know it was absolutely not God, or such a practice would be in the Bible. The Bible is a very large book, and not one single word to back up the practise.

Im in transit. You have to quote me so I can get the alerts and know who you replying to.

 

[Evie]

You also say that Catholics get help from all of Christ's family. The Bible says: quote/. 'My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.' Psalms 121:2. I do not see any reference to family.

 

[Esoqq]

Or, when science tries to disprove religious beliefs and religion gets too mystical. I knew a girl that believed she was from Venus. Scientifically, I'd say that's impossible, but she was drop dead gorgeous, so naturally, I believed her.

Baha'i have their "Great Beings"... they call manifestations. However, a guy like Moses seems to have been an ordinary person until his God choose him for a mission. He stumbled a few times. He wasn't perfect. So there definition of a "manifestation" doesn't work very well for all these people they claim to be "manifestations."

But what about Great Sages, Great Prophets, and Great spiritual people? There are so many that founded small religious groups, or had a mystical experience that started an offshoot within a religion. Lots of these people were similar to a Moses or a Buddha or maybe could be classified as one of these Buddha and not one of the Baha'i "manifestations."

You may have guessed by now but I'm not your typical Baha'i. I don't view the messengers as the Manifestation but rather either influence (controlled) by it or possessed by it.
I believe there is only one Manifestation and it is reachable and has been reached by multitudes of mystics of all religions throughout history. The difference between a mystic and a messenger is that the manifestation seeks out the messenger for a mission, while it is the mystic that seeks out the manifestation, usually to gain some type of enlightenment.

 

[loverofhumanity]

And you still don't see a problem with this, do you? So if some other person came along and said that they were the next great manifestation, or told outright lies about Bahai, you would be totally fine with it? If you can honestly say that, fine, but it certainly reeks of a double standard.

Each Manifestation proves His legitimacy over time. Their truth endures over centuries and ages while the others just fade away into oblivion.

Let's wait and see.

 

[Vinayaka]

Each Manifestation proves His legitimacy over time. Their truth endures over centuries and ages while the others just fade away into oblivion.

Let's wait and see.

You keep stating your opinion as it it were fact. lol.

Because I don't believe in sacred manifestations, there is nothing to prove. Certainly the later 3 'manifestations' you mention (I would call them historical personalities, and one I'm not sure existed) have proved they were capable of causing a lot of mischief, I suppose, yes?

You and I won't be around in the same ego/personality of this lifetime. Look at ancient civilisations like the Romans, the Greeks, the Egyptians, and others. Where are they now?

But then ... oh yeah, those darn Hindus, for some reason, (hint, it isn't manifestations) they're still around, just as relevant as they were 4000+ years ago, despite several nasty invasions or attempted genocides. Pesky guys just won't go away, much like on this thread, lol.