How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Huge differences. A born again Christian has everything they need in their Savior Jesus. A Jew has everything they need in their Scriptures.

The religions, like Hinduism and Buddhism that have a core belief in reincarnation, get freed from the cycle of rebirth by doing certain things.

So what do Baha'is have? I've said it and I think you said it too. The Baha'i Faith is very much related to Islam. They have their laws, prayers, a fast, a pilgrimage, and a governing body and a prophet that wants to unite the world. Great, except they do seek converts. To do that they have to convince and prove to others they have the truth.

About all I can see from an outsider's POV as core differences between Abrahamic faiths is the name of the prophet. Beyond that, they all seem eerily similar.

Infallibility, proselytizing, I'm right, you're wrong, the chosen people, one life, dualistic, intellectual. So very much in common.

 

[Dawnofhope]

And what happens when it's a moral or spiritual question that can't be answered in the teachings? Like use of the internet for proselytizing or for getting information, or the new information we have on smoking, or other medical issues, or diets?

Religion teaches us to think for ourselves or consult people of expertise. If we need medical advice consult a physician.

Life brings many complex moral problems. We need to learn through reflection, meditation, and prayer to consider the best course of action based on our faith.

 

[Dawnofhope]

About all I can see from an outsider's POV as core differences between Abrahamic faiths is the name of the prophet. Beyond that, they all seem eerily similar.

Infallibility, proselytizing, I'm right, you're wrong, the chosen people, one life, dualistic, intellectual. So very much in common.

Sounds like we are starting to say very similar things in different ways.

 

[Evie]

I've heard these arguments before. Since you're not Catholic, I'll just say my experience and study as a former Catholic and leave it be.

1. The Eucharist is the heart of the Church. The Eucharist is the Lord's Supper and communion that binds the body of Christ (aka The Church Roman or not) together. When more than one person comes together, Christ is present. That is in scripture as well. You can't separate The Church and Christ. I did so because like you and many people, you guys don't see them one and the same.

2. Veneration (Respecting) and praying (communicating) to individuals alive in heaven is not forbidden in scripture. Prayer to the dead is forbidden. Some parishes put more emphasis on Mary than others. The point is she is the mother of christ.

That's like saying to my girlfriend, "hey, I love you only. Don't like your, your siblings, and friends. Just you."

Catholics believe all people in Christ are one body and no one in Christ dies even though they physically pass away.

3. People pray differently. For example, I use art in my prayers. Some people speak. Some people write. Sometimes Catholics want to talk to Mary because she knows about her son and that they may feel comfortable with Mary given maybe they are parents and know what its like being a mother. They are associating with god through other people. Their living status has nothing to do with it. That's like my coming to you and learning about god.

What you're saying is don't go to church, don't talk to brothers and sisters of christ, just read the bible and pray.

I can tell when someone doesn't get it. It's alright. Not many people get Catholicism because they are thrown off by the gold.

what gold? and you managed to dodge the questio n of why Mary is venerated and prayed to when no such thing exists in the Bible they profeess to be God,s Word.

 

[Dawnofhope]

what gold? and you managed to dodge the questio n of why Mary is venerated and prayed to when no such thing exists in the Bible they profeess to be God,s Word.

Hi Evie, I'm a little confused about your religion? You have BaHa'i and not Bahai.

 

[Evie]

w

Good morning



Why would Christians deliberately want to incorporate pagan beliefs into their faith?

What is belittling about the phrase 'indigenous beliefs'?



The reformation came about for a many reasons. The Catholic church was not in good shape. It seems to be doing well these days, perhaps because the protestants are doing so badly.

What was the Roman Influence you feel the protestants took from the Catholics?



But God can not steal from Himself



There is nothing negative in separating the teachings from the sacraments. It is just identifying customs and traditions that are either not necessary or not universal. Is there harm in deconstructing traditions within religion?



I don't understand your question. Please rephrase it, and I'll answer it the best I can.



I'm not entirely certain what you mean here either. Would you clarify?



There is no cultural misappropriation as both the Baha'i Faith and Christianity are revelations from God. Besides the term is usually used when a larger more powerful movement negatively affects the smaller one. The Baha'i faith is smaller in number than Christianity. The relative potency of each religion is a different story.



Some Jews hate Christians, in part because of the Christians have taken the Hebrew bible as their own. However it never belonged to the Jews. It was God's gift to us all.

Unless you know and study the Bible by what standard can you determine that Baha'u'llah does not form part of the bible?



It is exactly the same relationship between Christianity and Judaism.





I don't believe there is anything wrong with an adherent from one Faith making statements about another. You do it, I do it. It is an inevitability of interfaith discussion. I don't have a problem with people of one faith studying another's faith and even to interpret. There is probably no interpretation that a Baha'i has made of another religion, that an adherent of the same faith has not made previously. There's is no obligation for an adherent of one Faith to accept one interpretation over another. Faith is personal after all. Where are all these rules coming from?



Foundations may not be universal but eventually faith needs to adapt to the modern world or be swept away.



Perhaps that is because you emphasise diversity over unity.



I would argue we all need to be saved whether we know it or not.



You ask me why I separate the sacraments from the teachings. Then you separate the founder from the message.

ould someone please explain what the Bahai religion is all about?

 

[Evie]

Hi Evie, I'm a little confused about your religion? You have BaHa'i and not Bahai.

it was mistakenly placed in the religion box. i don.t even know what it is . please enlighten me.

 

[Dawnofhope]

it was mistakenly placed in the religion box. i don.t even know what it is . please enlighten me.

No problem.

The Baha'i Faith is a religion that emerged from Persia (now Iran) 1844. At the time there were Messianic expectations as to One who would fulfil prophecies in Shia Islam and bring religious renewal. This is similar to the time that Jesus came amidst Messianic expectation amongst the Jews. The Bab (literally translated means 'The Gate') was considered by many to be that prophet and so within a relatively brief period many thousands had become followers including some leading Mullas. Other religious leaders and government officials were unhappy and many of the early followers, particularly the leaders or prominent Babi's were persecuted, tortured or put to death. The Bab Himself was executed by a Muslim firing squad. However the main purpose of the Bab's mission, like John the Baptist was to prepare His followers to recognise the Manifestation of God for this era in human history. Baha'is recognise Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) as being that Promised One.

The Persian authorities were not too keen on Baha'u'llah and His followers and so He was tortured, imprisoned, and then exiled to Bagdad. Wherever Baha'u'llah went He had an enormous influence on the hearts and minds of those He came in contact, so the Ottoman Empire wasn't too keen to see the Baha'i faith become established in Bagdad. They exiled Him to Constantinople, then Adrianople, and finally Akka the great fortress prison city of the Ottoman empire in Palestine, Now Israel. Every effort to extinguish the light of the new religion has been like pouring oil on fire.

One of the few Westerners to meet Baha'u'llah was Professor Edward Granville Browne of Cambridge University. He wrote of his first meeting: "The face of Him on Whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read one's very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow.… No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain."

Bahá’u’lláh stated at that meeting:

"… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled — what harm is there in this? … Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the 'Most Great Peace' shall come.… Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind."

What Bahá’ís Believe | The Bahá’í Faith

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

The are currently an estimate 5 - 7 million Baha'is world wide.

Hope that helps

 

[Evie]

T

No problem.

The Baha'i Faith is a religion that emerged from Persia (now Iran) 1844. At the time there were Messianic expectations as to One who would fulfil prophecies in Shia Islam and bring religious renewal. This is similar to the time that Jesus came amidst Messianic expectation amongst the Jews. The Bab (literally translated means 'The Gate') was considered by many to be that prophet and so within a relatively brief period many thousands had become followers including some leading Mullas. Other religious leaders and government officials were unhappy and many of the early followers, particularly the leaders or prominent Babi's were persecuted, tortured or put to death. The Bab Himself was executed by a Muslim firing squad. However the main purpose of the Bab's mission, like John the Baptist was to prepare His followers to recognise the Manifestation of God for this era in human history. Baha'is recognise Baha'u'llah (Glory of God) as being that Promised One.

The Persian authorities were not too keen on Baha'u'llah and His followers and so He was tortured, imprisoned, and then exiled to Bagdad. Wherever Baha'u'llah went He had an enormous influence on the hearts and minds of those He came in contact, so the Ottoman Empire wasn't too keen to see the Baha'i faith become established in Bagdad. They exiled Him to Constantinople, then Adrianople, and finally Akka the great fortress prison city of the Ottoman empire in Palestine, Now Israel. Every effort to extinguish the light of the new religion has been like pouring oil on fire.

One of the few Westerners to meet Baha'u'llah was Professor Edward Granville Browne of Cambridge University. He wrote of his first meeting: "The face of Him on Whom I gazed I can never forget, though I cannot describe it. Those piercing eyes seemed to read one's very soul; power and authority sat on that ample brow.… No need to ask in whose presence I stood, as I bowed myself before one who is the object of a devotion and love which kings might envy and emperors sigh for in vain."

Bahá’u’lláh stated at that meeting:

"… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled — what harm is there in this? … Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the 'Most Great Peace' shall come.… Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind."

What Bahá’ís Believe | The Bahá’í Faith

Bahá'í Faith - Wikipedia

The are currently an estimate 5 - 7 million Baha'is world wide.

Hope that helps

Thank you so much.

 

[arthra]

But if you believe Baha'u'llah is the return of Krishna, then he is Kalki. So how does the Baha'i Faith interpret these prophecies of Kalki?

There is a piece about Baha'u'llah as the "Kalki Avatar"...

4 - Hindu Prophecies

"....when the eight suns will together shine over the sky. He will reestablish righteousness upon earth, and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as clear as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who will follow the laws of the Krita age or Satya Yuga, the age of purity."

- Vishnu Purana, Book Four, Chapter 2


We need to emphasize though while we believe Baha'u'llah fulfills the prophecies we do not believe God incarnates Himself physically... either as Jesus as an incarnation or Kalki as the last "incarnation" of Vishnu...

"The eight suns will together shine over the sky.." in my view represent the Manifestations preceding Baha'u'llah shining in the same sky..

Indeed, this most mighty, this most great station is, in the first stage, particular to the Suns of Reality which shine forth from the Divine Day-break - though their dawning is a sunrise that has no setting - and their setting is in the Divine West -and their dusk is not a setting or a descent for the light of their beauty shines forth ceaselessly from the Divine Morn upon the Temples of Oneness and the mid-afternoon sun of their Countenance continues to shine, bestowing spirit upon the realities of detachment. But the effulgences of this station shine forth from these Suns onto the mirrors of the realities of the way-farers and seekers. Thus if the mirrors of the heart be freed from the dust of the worlds of

(Provisional Translations, I was a Hidden Treasure)

Then, in another station, it refereth to the prophets and pure ones of God, for they are the suns of His names and attributes amid his creation. Were it not for them, no one would have been illumined by the mystical knowledge of God.

(Tafsir-i-Suratu'l-Shams, Commentary on the Surah of the Sun - Cole 1994)

Re-establishing righteousness ... closing the Kali yuga age and entering the Satya Yuga conform to our view of the future.

 

[Tabu]

"....when the eight suns will together shine over the sky. He will reestablish righteousness upon earth, and the minds of those who live at the end of the Kali age shall be awakened, and shall be as clear as crystal. The men who are thus changed by virtue of that peculiar time shall be as the seeds of human beings, and shall give birth to a race who will follow the laws of the Krita age or Satya Yuga, the age of purity."

- Vishnu Purana, Book Four, Chapter 2

This is very interesting but I have a different interpretation.
Note , Eight Suns will together shine , in the sky ,not one , indicating 8 soul with the knowledge and remembrance of God will rise to such a lofty station that they would be shining brightly like the Sun in the sky making everything crystal clear, removing all ignorance , spiritually awakening the souls, and rekindling their lights.
Bahaullah could be one of them, like wise any of the other great religious , spiritual leaders, (and the soul of Krishn is definitely one of them and the first of them all we are told.)
Our understanding is that this transformation doesn't take place with the teachings they left behind , it would be something new , a cup filled directly from the fountain , a nectar of knowledge which these eight souls in their last births would churn and feed others.
The number 8 is amazing to me . I find its mention in various places , thanks for your mentioning it .
Quran mentions 8 angels bearing the Throne of the Lord that day ,
"And the angels will be on its sides, and eight angels will, that Day, bear the Throne of your Lord above them."(69:17).
Indicating 8 souls will take the most responsibility in re-establishing the Kingdom of the Lord.
In Brahma Kumaris it is said that the first rosary around Shiv Baba's(Our Father Shiv) neck would be of 8 beads , the 8 root souls or seed souls.
These souls will help in recreating the Satyug again and would then become the Lakshmi and Narayan (the rulers) of the Satyug.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

what gold? and you managed to dodge the questio n of why Mary is venerated and prayed to when no such thing exists in the Bible they profeess to be God,s Word.

Gold meaning you guys are looking at the outside of the Church: praying to mary, praying to statues without interest in understsnding how these devotions arent isolated from ones worship to christ.

No one asked me the question directly. Roman Catholiciam is not a sola sriptura denominations. Catholics believe the practices and oral traditions of the Church have the same authority in scripture.

Catholics believe Mary and the saints are not dead. They are alive in heaven because they believed in jesus christ. So, if I asked you to help me spiritually it will not be different than asking Mary and the saints.

It is like if I meditated or jumped up and down in prayer. Thats not in the bible if going by "absense of information means X is false". Since that would the silly to assume devotion will not change depending on ara, Catholics have a more specific and detailed range of how to worship christ.

Praying to mary is not the most important thing in catholicism. I hear so much junk but no one addresses what catholics actually worship as jesus. If I picked anything to belittle, it would be that. But having experienced that and prayed to mary, I wouldnt do that.

Probably have to find and try out different ways of devotion that speak to you that is not written in the bible. When you part from the physical words as christ says, you can devote yourself in many ways and no one can break you down because of it. Dont make the bible an idol.

 

[Evie]

I

Gold meaning you guys are looking at the outside of the Church: praying to mary, praying to statues without interest in understsnding how these devotions arent isolated from ones worship to christ.

No one asked me the question directly. Roman Catholiciam is not a sola sriptura denominations. Catholics believe the practices and oral traditions of the Church have the same authority in scripture.

Catholics believe Mary and the saints are not dead. They are alive in heaven because they believed in jesus christ. So, if I asked you to help me spiritually it will not be different than asking Mary and the saints.

It is like if I meditated or jumped up and down in prayer. Thats not in the bible if going by "absense of information means X is false". Since that would the silly to assume devotion will not change depending on ara, Catholics have a more specific and detailed range of how to worship christ.

Praying to mary is not the most important thing in catholicism. I hear so much junk but no one addresses what catholics actually worship as jesus. If I picked anything to belittle, it would be that. But having experienced that and prayed to mary, I wouldnt do that.

Probably have to find and try out different ways of devotion that speak to you that is not written in the bible. When you part from the physical words as christ says, you can devote yourself in many ways and no one can break you down because of it. Dont make the bible an idol.

I have to wonder what God the Father of Jesus thinks. He watched the beaten bleeding body of His Son nailed to one of His own trees. Do you think He is pleased when prayers are directed to Mary instead of His Son who endured such frightful abuse?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I

I have to wonder what God the Father of Jesus thinks. He watched the beaten bleeding body of His Son mailed to one of His own trees. Do you think He is pleased when prayers are directed to Mary instead of His Son who endured such frightful abuse?

I guess it depends. I personally dont see jesus isolated. He had family and devotees. Christians follow the inspired apostles words but they turn an up nose when some people pray to mary to understand her son more.

I mean, when I practiced, mary in heaven helped me learn about christ. It was a female personal connection to christ by also associating with his mother.

Protestant christianity reminds me of going on a date without involving your dates family. Of course, you arent dating their family but to exnay them out the picture is rude especiallt if you want to know more about them.

Catholics believe since mary is christ mother and the saints devotees, they learn more about christ by talking to his family as well.

Its a communal relationship with christ. No catholic puts mary above christ. Mary isnt in thr Eucharist.

I dont understand why this is a issue. Are all things not in the bible literally against god?

 

[Evie]

I guess it depends. I personally dont see jesus isolated. He had family and devotees. Christians follow the inspired apostles words but they turn an up nose when some people pray to mary to understand her son more.

I mean, when I practiced, mary in heaven helped me learn about christ. It was a female personal connection to christ by also associating with his mother.

Protestant christianity reminds me of going on a date without involving your dates family. Of course, you arent dating their family but to exnay them out the picture is rude especiallt if you want to know more about them.

Catholics believe since mary is christ mother and the saints devotees, they learn more about christ by talking to his family as well.

Its a communal relationship with christ. No catholic puts mary above christ. Mary isnt in thr Eucharist.

I dont understand why this is a issue. Are all things not in the bible literally against god?

Wouldn't God have encouraged Christians to do so ( pray to Mary) if it had the potential to bring them closer to Jesus? But no words of such encouragement are to be found in His Word the Bible. The Father would desire ALL focus, prayers and devotion directed to His Son. That is why there are absolutely no words whatsoever in the Bible about praying to Mary. I can sense His sadness every time He sees it.

 

[Evie]

Wouldn't God have encouraged Christians to do so ( pray to Mary) if it had the potential to bring them closer to Jesus? But no words of such encouragement are to be found in His Word the Bible. The Father would desire ALL focus, prayers and devotion directed to His Son. That is why there are absolutely no words whatsoever in the Bible about praying to Mary. I can sense His sadness every time He sees it.

 

[Evie]

I pray that one day you will sense The Father's sadness too.

 

[Evie]

I guess it depends. I personally dont see jesus isolated. He had family and devotees. Christians follow the inspired apostles words but they turn an up nose when some people pray to mary to understand her son more.

I mean, when I practiced, mary in heaven helped me learn about christ. It was a female personal connection to christ by also associating with his mother.

Protestant christianity reminds me of going on a date without involving your dates family. Of course, you arent dating their family but to exnay them out the picture is rude especiallt if you want to know more about them.

Catholics believe since mary is christ mother and the saints devotees, they learn more about christ by talking to his family as well.

Its a communal relationship with christ. No catholic puts mary above christ. Mary isnt in thr Eucharist.

I dont understand why this is a issue. Are all things not in the bible literally against god?

The very important things certainly are.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wouldn't God have encouraged Christians to do so ( pray to Mary) if it had the potential to bring them closer to Jesus? But no words of such encouragement are to be found in His Word the Bible. The Father would desire ALL focus, prayers and devotion directed to His Son. That is why there are absolutely no words whatsoever in the Bible about praying to Mary. I can sense His sadness every time He sees it.

Catholicism is a communal devotion. They see christ as a bond that creates a family of living saints, mary, joseph, and all congregants. Its like having a family. You talk to "each other" for support.

Catholics worship christ

They pray to the living in heaven

They pray for the living noncatholics and non christians on earth.

What you are saying is saying christians can only pray "our father" and thats it. Any extra prayers are against god.

When I used to write my prayers, I never say them against god. When I practiced, I talked to the father separate than the son as christ did not talk to himself.

I get what youre saying. Catholicism is a communal faith which means their worship with christ is with all believers in one body of christ. The empasisnis put heavyily on prayer and devotion. Cleansing and salvation.

It its another way christians devote themselves to christ. I find it odd if all christians tried to do only what they did in the bible. But prayers are dirrected to christ. When they pray to mary they arent worshiping mary. It all goes to christ..confession and all.

 

[Evie]

Catholicism is a communal devotion. They see christ as a bond that creates a family of living saints, mary, joseph, and all congregants. Its like having a family. You talk to "each other" for support.

Catholics worship christ

They pray to the living in heaven

They pray for the living noncatholics and non christians on earth.

What you are saying is saying christians can only pray "our father" and thats it. Any extra prayers are against god.

When I used to write my prayers, I never say them against god. When I practiced, I talked to the father separate than the son as christ did not talk to himself.

I get what youre saying. Catholicism is a communal faith which means their worship with christ is with all believers in one body of christ. The empasisnis put heavyily on prayer and devotion. Cleansing and salvation.

It its another way christians devote themselves to christ. I find it odd if all christians tried to do only what they did in the bible. But prayers are dirrected to christ. When they pray to mary they arent worshiping mary. It all goes to christ..confession and all.

I will repeat. No such words from God,s mouth as to pray to Mary.