How are these Great Beings explained?

[loverofhumanity]

That's a little backwards. People get talked into, born into, even forced into following a religious tradition because they are supposedly the "Word of God". Then, another religion tells them and shows them how they are wrong. Some convert, other don't. Some even fight over it.

So, one more time, are any of the religions, other than the Baha'i Faith, teaching the absolute, undiluted, or unpolluted truth? I can't see how you can say anything but "no". And that is why a new manifestation from God had to come, to renew the Truth. That is the prophecy you've used. When the religion dies out, that's when the new guy comes back. So no matter what any of us believe, it is wrong. Yet, you say you respect the other religions?

Yes. Truth is in all the religions and Holy Books but the problem is people follow the leaders and do not look with their own eyes or think with their own minds.

So it's very easy to be misled when you follow a person that the Word of God itself. The Word of God is still available to all religions. The Bible, the Quran, Bhagavad-Gita, Zend Avesta, Buddhist Scriptures all have unadulterated truth.

The Books themselves have not become polluted or diluted but the meanings have been lost through wrong interpretations.

So if you read the Writings of Baha'u'llah you will find a lot of them are about correcting the mistakes of interpretations made over the years. Also He expands on concepts like love saying that today love needs to include all humanity not just our race, religion or nationality.

Note that all the Manifestations confirm each other. For example Jesus confirmed Moses, Muhammad said Jesus was from God and so on.

So no Manifestation ever says another Manifestation or His Holy Book is wrong. But each expands on the laws of the other and may abolish laws no longer needed. Jesus taught mainly about the individual and did not create a community. Muhammad established a nation state with specific laws and a constitution and Baha'u'llah teaches world unity. But He abolished things that in this age are either not necessary or harmful such as Holy War and priesthood.

The Manifestations have come only to help us not condemn anyone.

 

[CG Didymus]

We believe all these religions from the same God. But that they brought Teachings relevant for the needs of their age.

And what these "needs of their Age"? How had the world changed between the time of Moses and on through to Muhammad? It looks to me more like each person brought a new religion to a people and a culture that progressed that people to a new level.

But then what you going to do with the Great Empires like Egypt, Babylonian, and Greek? They had their own religion that fit their culture. And tell me about those religions, were they also from the One True God? They were during the same "age" as many of the "official" religions. What do those great empires teach in their religions?

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes. Truth is in all the religions and Holy Books but the problem is people follow the leaders and do not look with their own eyes or think with their own minds.

So it's very easy to be misled when you follow a person that the Word of God itself. The Word of God is still available to all religions. The Bible, the Quran, Bhagavad-Gita, Zend Avesta, Buddhist Scriptures all have unadulterated truth.

The Books themselves have not become polluted or diluted but the meanings have been lost through wrong interpretations.

So if you read the Writings of Baha'u'llah you will find a lot of them are about correcting the mistakes of interpretations made over the years. Also He brings expands on concepts like love saying that today love needs to include all humanity not just our race, religion or nationality.

Note that all the Manifestations confirm each other. For example Jesus confirmed Moses, Muhammad said Jesuscwas from God and so on.

So no Manifestation ever says another Manifestation or His Holy Book is wrong. But each expands on the laws of the other and may abolish laws no longer needed. Jesus taught mainly about the individual and did not create a community. Muhammad established a nation state with specific laws and a constitution and Baha'u'llah teaches world unity. But He abolished things that in this age are either not necessary or harmful such as Holy War and priesthood.

The Manifestations have come only to help us not condemn anyone.

Who did Moses confirm? Did Moses and Muhammad have anything good to say about people who believed in a religion that had idols? Did Jesus have anything good to say about the Pharisees and the Sadducee?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Wait, there's more. God does want the nations to rise up and fight against a tyrant, right. He does want capital punishment for evil people, right. So you got people killing, because God said in those situations it was all right.

Any basic course on ancient people and their religions, all of them had their own beliefs and their own gods. Lots of them believed they were the "chosen ones." They prayed and sacrificed to their gods for victory. Moses had the help of his God in his battles.

How different were those ancient religions? Not a lot, they had similarities. Creation stories, even flood stories, god/men, even wars among the gods. It really looks like those unknown manifestations you've mentioned didn't do a very good job. Maybe the current ones too.

Oh, that reminds me. Progressive revelation? What was the first religion that taught monogamy in marriage? Maybe Christianity? If so, why did Muhammad go back to polygamy? And as far as being a perfect example, Why did the man who would later declare himself to be Baha'u'llah have multiple wives?

Oh, and what about Krishna and the Gopi girls? Not that I have anything against what he did, but for a manifestation to be fooling around like that is a little out of character isn't it?

Often we don't have a choice when it comes to someone like Hitler. Every people has the right to protect itself from the aggressor.

The Quran actually permits only monogamy but with progressive Revelation God speaks in a way the people can understand so He didn't just say you can only have one wide but put it another way.

About polygamy. Muhammad did not in start polygamy. Some kings before He came had 12,000 wives. Christ never mentioned polygamy. But the Quran forbids it.

True Islam - Polygamy in Quran

Quran 4:29

129. You will not be able to treat women with equal fairness, no matter how much you desire it.

The Quran says you can have more wives than one if you can treat them all justly which in the above 4:29 says you can't. But things like this are introduced gradually as old habits die hard. Even then Muhammad only married for political reasons or to unite certain tribes. With Bahaullah too He said the same that equal justice was the condition which is impossible but He put it that way because of the culture He was in.

Wives of Baha'u'llah

Stories about Krishna. Yes I agree it is very much out of character which would mean to me it is clearly just a fairytale.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Who did Moses confirm? Did Moses and Muhammad have anything good to say about people who believed in a religion that had idols? Did Jesus have anything good to say about the Pharisees and the Sadducee?

Moses confirmed Adam. Both Moses and Muhammad taught about the oneness of God. Moses condemned the worshipping of the golden calf and Muhammad the 360 gods the Quraysh worshipped.

 

[Vinayaka]

We believe all these religions from the same God. But that they brought Teachings relevant for the needs of their age.

Yes, and they also all believe their teachings are totally relevant today too. I personally don't believe some of them are, but I respect their right to believe that. Relevancy, in my opinion, occurs far better when the teachers are alive today, not passed on at some point in history. Seems logical to me any prophet's words would be different today than back then. Another reason I don't believe in prophets. Out of basic laws of time, they lack relevancy.

Certainly Hinduism changes with the times, as new scientific information comes out, for example.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Yes, and they also all believe their teachings are totally relevant today too. I personally don't believe some of them are, but I respect their right to believe that. Relevancy, in my opinion, occurs far better when the teachers are alive today, not passed on at some point in history. Seems logical to me any prophet's words would be different today than back then. Another reason I don't believe in prophets. Out of basic laws of time, they lack relevancy.

Certainly Hinduism changes with the times, as new scientific information comes out, for example.

I think the establishment of a world civilisation and world commonwealth based upon the oneness of humanity is a long way to go and we are far from achieving such things as even world peace yet.

So the vision we have of things like a world metropolis, a world language, unity of religion and unity of nations are very relevant for the next few hundred years at least.

A Manifestation brings a vision for the future not just for the time He was alive.

 

[Vinayaka]

a world language,
A Manifestation brings a vision for the future not just for the time He was alive.

Which language would that be? So many beautiful languages have disappeared already. Sounds like you're trying to eliminate all diversity and make the entire world under the banner of Bahai. My prediction is simply that it won't happen, and that Bahai will disappear, just as so many other new faiths do. But of course everyone is entitles to their pipe dreams.

 

[paarsurrey]

Often we don't have a choice when it comes to someone like Hitler. Every people has the right to protect itself from the aggressor.

The Quran actually permits only monogamy but with progressive Revelation God speaks in a way the people can understand so He didn't just say you can only have one wide but put it another way.

About polygamy. Muhammad did not in start polygamy. Some kings before He came had 12,000 wives. Christ never mentioned polygamy. But the Quran forbids it.

True Islam - Polygamy in Quran

Quran 4:29

129. You will not be able to treat women with equal fairness, no matter how much you desire it.

The Quran says you can have more wives than one if you can treat them all justly which in the above 4:29 says you can't. But things like this are introduced gradually as old habits die hard. Even then Muhammad only married for political reasons or to unite certain tribes. With Bahaullah too He said the same that equal justice was the condition which is impossible but He put it that way because of the culture He was in.

Wives of Baha'u'llah

Stories about Krishna. Yes I agree it is very much out of character which would mean to me it is clearly just a fairytale.

"Muhammad did not in start polygamy"

I agree with one.
Polygamy existed before Muhammad. Muhammad restricted it to maximum four at a time and qualified, if one is sure of doing justice with them, otherwise just mary with one woman. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I would like to say that the list may be revised as follows:

"Buddha, Moses, Krishna, Jesus, Zoroaster, Muhammad?"​

I agree with other contents of the post.
The great spiritual teacher mentioned in the end of the post has already come, his name is Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.
Everybody to please note.
Regards

Just to add:
Within 108 years the community/Jamaat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad founded has spread to 209 countries of the world, peacefully. Please
Regards

 

[Esoqq]

If the truth is universal, then why do prophet based religions need that particular prophet? If truth was universal, then you could just go anywhere and find it, right? There would be no need for Jesus, for Muhammed, for Baha'u'llah.

In my opinion, they don't. Moses, Jesus and Mohammad were not exactly perfect by any stretch of the imagination and all were influenced by their life experiences and their human mind. This explains why there are such huge differences in their respective religions.
The manifestation on the other hand isn't subject to these human limitations. It has a mission, compared to us

Now I'm confused even more. What exactly is 'The Manifestation'?

LOL, I was really hoping you wouldn't as that. I do have a theory but it's so weird and so radically different from anything else that I've come across that I hesitate to state it.
First let me remind everyone, including and perhaps especially myself, that I'm human with the same human limitations that have plagued religion from the beginning of history.
Here is my entire spiritual philosophy.
In the beginning there was God and only God. Nothing and no one else.
This is a loving God with no one to love or be loved by. If I were this God the one thing I would want most is someone to love and be love by.
And that is the start of creation. It's only purpose is the creation of a second God.
Most religions teach some version of "As above, so below," In the revealed religion this is express by God creating us in his imagine. There is also the teaching in most religions that God is to be found within.
So what are we? Human's (and all other life) are comprised of trillions of individual life forms each with their own level of intelligence needed to perform the function they were created for. That's what I believe we (our spiritual selves) are in relation to the God being created. I believe the manifestation is the developing intelligence of this new God.
Now that I've proven how insane I am, I look forward to what responses may come.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I don't know much about the view of the nature of God manifested. I do know for sure that Vaishnavites believe that Kalki is yet to arrive, and that Bahai's believe Baha''u' llah is Kalki, and that several other individuals and groups believe their prophet is the second coming, including Kalki.

Of course, in Saivism, we don't believe in manifestations of this nature at all, so the whole idea is irrelevant to us.

Yes, Hinduism is vast. A parallel in vastness would like be Judaism, Islam, and Christianity combined.

Kalki?

The plot thickens for certain.

Kalki - Hindupedia, the Hindu Encyclopedia

Kalki - Wikipedia

I wonder if a better comparison would be Buddhism and Hinduism compared to the Abrahamic Faiths. Buddhism arose out of Hinduism as Christianity arose out of Judaism, and Islam makes extensive references to the Hebrew bible and to a lesser extent Christianity.

 

[Vinayaka]

We just believe in one God Who is beyond our comprehension and we only know of Him through the Prophets and Manifestations.

So not possible in many versions Hinduism then, as we don't have prophets or manifestations? So I cannot know God? Shucks, and I was hoping I could. Oh dear me!

 

[Vinayaka]

In my opinion, they don't. Moses, Jesus and Mohammad were not exactly perfect by any stretch of the imagination and all were influenced by their life experiences and their human mind. This explains why there are such huge differences in their respective religions.
The manifestation on the other hand isn't subject to these human limitations. It has a mission, compared to us
LOL, I was really hoping you wouldn't as that. I do have a theory but it's so weird and so radically different from anything else that I've come across that I hesitate to state it.
First let me remind everyone, including and perhaps especially myself, that I'm human with the same human limitations that have plagued religion from the beginning of history.
Here is my entire spiritual philosophy.
In the beginning there was God and only God. Nothing and no one else.
This is a loving God with no one to love or be loved by. If I were this God the one thing I would want most is someone to love and be love by.
And that is the start of creation. It's only purpose is the creation of a second God.
Most religions teach some version of "As above, so below," In the revealed religion this is express by God creating us in his imagine. There is also the teaching in most religions that God is to be found within.
So what are we? Human's (and all other life) are comprised of trillions of individual life forms each with their own level of intelligence needed to perform the function they were created for. That's what I believe we (our spiritual selves) are in relation to the God being created. I believe the manifestation is the developing intelligence of this new God.
Now that I've proven how insane I am, I look forward to what responses may come.

Noticeable, you didn't include Baha'ullah in that list. Noticeably. The rest of it, to me, was just more gobbledygook. What can I say?

 

[Vinayaka]

Kalki?

The plot thickens for certain.

Kalki - Hindupedia, the Hindu Encyclopedia

Kalki - Wikipedia

I wonder if a better comparison would be Buddhism and Hinduism compared to the Abrahamic Faiths. Buddhism arose out of Hinduism as Christianity arose out of Judaism, and Islam makes extensive references to the Hebrew bible and to a lesser extent Christianity.

Yes, that's a better comparison. The two paradigms are really far apart, and attempts at mixing them really don't usually work.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, that's a better comparison. The two paradigms are really far apart, and attempts at mixing them really don't usually work.

I wonder if its best to consider the purpose of religion in very general terms and find common ground that way. For example religion promoting virtue and good character, genuine relationships between people, and enlightened thinking.

 

[Esoqq]

Noticeable, you didn't include Baha'ullah in that list. Noticeably. The rest of it, to me, was just more gobbledygook. What can I say?

You may consider Baha'ullah and the Bab to be part of that list.
As to gobbledygook. I can understand that. I find it very unusual even radically different from anything I've ever encountered and it is uniquely mine, but it's the only thing I've been able to come up with that answers all my questions.

 

[Vinayaka]

I wonder if its best to consider the purpose of religion in very general terms and find common ground that way. For example religion promoting virtue and good character, genuine relationships between people, and enlightened thinking.

Yes, very general terms, like ethics and theism. That much we can easily agree upon. That's the beauty of interfaith.

 

[Vinayaka]

You may consider Baha'ullah and the Bab to be part of that list.
As to gobbledygook. I can understand that. I find it very unusual even radically different from anything I've ever encountered and it is uniquely mine, but it's the only thing I've been able to come up with that answers all my questions.

Good to know you don't consider Baha'u'llah perfect. I think when we're 'out here' in the intellectual mind, basically it's all gobbledygook. But once we calm the mind, get ourselves centered, insights come, slowly but surely, and we begin to see this world for what it really is, maya. But first we have to renounce some stuff ... like books, intellect, attachment, fear, ego, and much more.

 

[Esoqq]

Good to know you don't consider Baha'u'llah perfect. I think when we're 'out here' in the intellectual mind, basically it's all gobbledygook. But once we calm the mind, get ourselves centered, insights come, slowly but surely, and we begin to see this world for what it really is, maya. But first we have to renounce some stuff ... like books, intellect, attachment, fear, ego, and much more.

Careful, you're beginning to sound a little like me. Everything you just said I agree with and in my mind, this is the method that Baha'u'llah meant when he encouraged independent investigation. He also taught that the only time that science and religion disagree is when either science is being too materialistic or religion is being too superstitious.