How are these Great Beings explained?

[Vinayaka]

Isnt your truth your journey? The religion you chose to embark on this journey?

Truth doesnt neeed to be a destination (hint hint to readers)

On two separate levels, yes. But the ultimate truth in Hinduism is called nirvikalpa samadhi, Self-realsaition, Enlightenement, which is sort of a destination. Saying you've gotten there is just ego talking. Souls who have gottenn there won't talk about it as a personal experience at all, because it isn't. Getting there is half the fun though, and there is truth to selecting the right path. Maybe the two could be labelled truth and Truth just to distinguish, much as god versus God, or self, and Self.

 

[Vinayaka]

Maybe not all. But new religions are born into existence because of concepts which are at variance with existing religious beliefs. The new concept forms it's own religion.

I can't relate much, because mine is an old and ancient religion. But I think I can see a parallel in scriptires that get translated. The Bhagavad Gita has been translated to English maybe 50 times, assumedly because each new translator figures his was better than all the previous ones.

 

[Vinayaka]

Carlita, here is some additional information on the deeper truth, from an ancient book. Same book (Tirukkural) also has a chapter on truthfulness, which is different.

Chapter 36 : Comprehending/grasping the truth

 

[Unveiled Artist]

On two separate levels, yes. But the ultimate truth in Hinduism is called nirvikalpa samadhi, Self-realsaition, Enlightenement, which is sort of a destination. Saying you've gotten there is just ego talking. Souls who have gottenn there won't talk about it as a personal experience at all, because it isn't. Getting there is half the fun though, and there is truth to selecting the right path. Maybe the two could be labelled truth and Truth just to distinguish, much as god versus God, or self, and Self.

Ha. Our beliefs finally clash but my culture always see life as a destinstion. Learning about paganism from a nature-oriented practitioner, I am learning to see life in a circle. So like the moon and earth turns so the sun can rise and fall so are we not excluded in the cycle of life.

Another way I see it is when sometimes I forget about my ancestors and then my mother would pop up with her mother (passed in early 90s) talked with her the other day. Then sometimes I get that nudge I ignored them. That cycle is them taking or well warnings I get of family and likewise my family will the following generations depending on when we pass on.

Its hard to live a cycle when here everything has a time limit. I couldnt pick one truth because that is assuming everyone is on my path they just havent caught up with me yet. I was never a prophet or god believer. No heirarchy so no worship.

 

[Evie]

On two separate levels, yes. But the ultimate truth in Hinduism is called nirvikalpa samadhi, Self-realsaition, Enlightenement, which is sort of a destination. Saying you've gotten there is just ego talking. Souls who have gottenn there won't talk about it as a personal experience at all, because it isn't. Getting there is half the fun though, and there is truth to selecting the right path. Maybe the two could be labelled truth and Truth just to distinguish, much as god versus God, or self, and Self.

You asked before. How would many religions fall under one truth? All w

I can't relate much, because mine is an old and ancient religion. But I think I can see a parallel in scriptires that get translated. The Bhagavad Gita has been translated to English maybe 50 times, assumedly because each new translator figures his was better than all the previous ones.

But many religions come into existence because of unbelief in what existing religions claim as being the truth. And the new religions attract people who agree with the new concept.

 

[Vinayaka]

You asked before. How would many religions fall under one truth? All w

But many religions come into existence because of unbelief in what existing religions claim as being the truth. And the new religions attract people who agree with the new concept.

Yes, lots do. Still there are many self-proclaimed prophets who don't mange to garner a following. I think it's getting tougher all the time, lol. I guess the previous 'truths' just weren't good enough. But I'm really out of my paradigm here, so ignorance will prevail.

 

[Vinayaka]

Carlita, I realised that many of the smaller truths, or knowledge, such as reincarnation, only came out of the wisdom of nirvikalpa samadhi, that ultimate Truth realisation. So the enlightened sage could then see reality for what it is, understanding things like karma and reincarnation to the fullest degree.

This is why I don't see Ultimate truth as being the same in all religions ... because knowledge that comes out of that said experience varies. Therefore it's only logical to assume they're different.

As to agreeing with you, all of that was agreeing about how we each perceive the Bahai faith. In my experience, generally traditional people of all faiths all agree on how they look at universalist teachings like Bahai, in that its a watered down version of everything, an attempt to harmonise stuff through vague concepts like unity or oneness.

 

[sayak83]

Carlita, here is some additional information on the deeper truth, from an ancient book. Same book (Tirukkural) also has a chapter on truthfulness, which is different.

Chapter 36 : Comprehending/grasping the truth

Excellent resource. Will read it entirely. Thanks!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita, I realised that many of the smaller truths, or knowledge, such as reincarnation, only came out of the wisdom of nirvikalpa samadhi, that ultimate Truth realisation. So the enlightened sage could then see reality for what it is, understanding things like karma and reincarnation to the fullest degree.

That's similar to how I see Buddhism where The Buddha came to that full knowledge of karma and the role of suffering among other things in the suttas. Though he didn't call it "ultimate truth" there is a consensus that enlightenment or full understanding is an ultimate truth that in Mahayana other people can achieve or in Theravada will achieve.

This is why I don't see Ultimate truth as being the same in all religions ... because knowledge that comes out of that said experience varies. Therefore it's only logical to assume they're different.

I agree. How I see the difference is if Ultimate truth is nirvikalpa samadhi is your ultimate truth and my truth doesn't have a hierarchy (so it's not ultimate nor a "Truth") then where are the similarities. I mean, if Bahai sees similarities in both of our truths, there would need to be more of a specific common foundation besides the benefits of our beliefs such as love and compassion.

I just wish that Bahais can see it from the other religious perspective. I mean, no one has answered what "my truth" is and it's supposed to be the same as everyone else's.

As to agreeing with you, all of that was agreeing about how we each perceive the Bahai faith. In my experience, generally traditional people of all faiths all agree on how they look at universalist teachings like Bahai, in that its a watered down version of everything, an attempt to harmonise stuff through vague concepts like unity or oneness.

Yes. Interestingly enough, even Unitarian Universalist don't claim oneness in humanity in regards to religion. They accept different religions but the oneness is more humanitarian oriented. Not a "one-truth" religion.

 

[Vinayaka]

I just wish that Bahais can see it from the other religious perspective. I mean, no one has answered what "my truth" is and it's supposed to be the same as everyone else's.

Yes. Interestingly enough, even Unitarian Universalist don't claim oneness in humanity in regards to religion. They accept different religions but the oneness is more humanitarian oriented. Not a "one-truth" religion.

I haven't really looked into UU much. The little bit I did lead me to a 'tolerance my way' POV, which was loaded with irony. A small sample size for sure. It's a great irony in a lot of universalist stuff ... that although universalist, quite intolerant of traditionalists.

As for Bahai, here on this thread we have some pretty big differences amongst the Bahai themselves, demonstrating an overall lack of clarity on many things. Still it seems there is an unwritten pact not to argue amongst themselves. Maybe in private though. I wouldn't know.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I haven't really looked into UU much. The little bit I did lead me to a 'tolerance my way' POV, which was loaded with irony. A small sample size for sure. It's a great irony in a lot of universalist stuff ... that although universalist, quite intolerant of traditionalists.

As for Bahai, here on this thread we have some pretty big differences amongst the Bahai themselves, demonstrating an overall lack of clarity on many things. Still it seems there is an unwritten pact not to argue amongst themselves. Maybe in private though. I wouldn't know.

Yeah. I went to two UU sermons and a couple of PFLAG meetings there. I'd say the issue with them is a lot of them here are ex-catholics and ex-traditionalist of whatever religion. The sermons I hear even though they have traditional practice (stand up for songs, sit down for sermon, raise hands for this, chant/pray for that) since I think it used to be part of The Church but the Church excommunicated them. Basics of Universalist Unitarianism It's about 30 mins; it's a bit bias but educational. They have food charity and other groups and programs to help people.

They used to have a Pagan group there but since it's walking distance from the Catholic Church, it got pushed off. I was going to build it up again but was debating on being initiated into UU only because the church here is bias against the church but I wouldn't think their sermons would reflect it.

So...

 

[arthra]

None of this addresses all of the people who don't believe in the concept of manifestation or messenger at all. So just like other Abrahamics, we are the infidels, the non-believers. Perhaps even 'the enemy'. The Qur'an quote says it quite clearly. Thank you. "So travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those who denied."
So I ask ... have you travelled across this earth and seen what has happened to those of us who have denied your truth?

My good friend Vinayaka I have seen the same essential spiritual truths in the religions.. be they called Buddhas, Tirthankaras, Avataras, Glorious Beings, Messengers, Manifestations... Whether they call Him Savior, Kalki Avatara, Saosyant, Maitreya, Amitabha... the same.

 

[arthra]

As for Bahai, here on this thread we have some pretty big differences amongst the Bahai themselves, demonstrating an overall lack of clarity on many things. Still it seems there is an unwritten pact not to argue amongst themselves. Maybe in private though. I wouldn't know.

On the whole and for the most part we get along quite well..

 

[Evie]

It occurred to me that there is a possibility that ALL RELIGIOUS beliefs, exist for a reason known only to God Himself. And it also occurred to me that God would not categorise Himself as 'RELI GION'. He is omnipotent, from everlasting to everlasting. Religions have come and gone. There is a reason for everything, and the existence of religious beliefs in the existence of mankind might be a reason that is not the obvious one. Just a thought that could be a possibility. With all religions striving to be recognised as possessing the truth, such a possibility as one common reason for the existence of all could be something to consider.

 

[loverofhumanity]

He only came once. The father said he Will come back again. Bahaullah didnt see christ unless youre saying they lived in the same area. Christ isnt a ghost and hes not omnipresent.

Bahallauh claims does not make sense if you go off the religions point of view

Not bahallahs interpretation of it.

He was pre existent so He existed when even Moses existed. It was He Who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

He was pre existent so He existed when even Moses existed. It was He Who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush.

He didn't come back again. He only came once as flesh. Christians say he will come back in the future.

 

[Evie]

T

He was pre existent so He existed when even Moses existed. It was He Who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush.

The voice in the burning bush said His name is I AM. When Moses asked who shall I say sent me. Tell them I AM sent you.

 

[Evie]

W

T

The voice in the burning bush said His name is I AM. When Moses asked who shall I say sent me. Tell them I AM sent you.

would God n

He was pre existent so He existed when even Moses existed. It was He Who spoke to Moses in the Burning Bush.

 

[Evie]

W

would God n

Not according to scripture. The voice in the burning bush named Himself as I AM when Moses asked who shall I say sent me. Tell them I AM sent you. That is the name the voice identified Himself as being. According to Holy Scripture.

 

[loverofhumanity]

T

The voice in the burning bush said His name is I AM. When Moses asked who shall I say sent me. Tell them I AM sent you.

This is what we believe..

Bahá’u’lláh Conversed with Moses in the Burning Bush

“Bahá’u’lláh is not the Intermediary between other Manifestations and God. Each has His own relation to the Primal Source. But in the sense that Bahá’u’lláh is the greatest Manifestation to yet appear, the One Who consummates the Revelation of Moses; He was the One Moses conversed with in the Burning Bush. In other words Bahá’u’lláh identifies the glory of the Godhead on that occasion with Himself. No distinction can be made amongst the Prophets in the sense that They all proceed from One Source, and are of One Essence. But Their stations and functions in this world are different.”
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, October 19, 1947)

“ The people of the world are now hearing that which Moses did hear, but they understand not.” (Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 265)