• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How are these Great Beings explained?

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The only thing I severely disagree with through all my years of practice, experience, and study in protestant and catholic denominations is Bahaullah from a christian perspective (which is the one that counts) has no place in Christianity other than being like there rest of the people, gentiles. The apostles went to different lands to convert people to christianity. I have to read Acts again. I read the NT before and no hint of a manefestation of god other than christ. Moses was considered a prophet just as all the other prophets in the bible. Christ was considered a High prophet. No other person held that tile but the Christ.


Being a Christian does not mean you accept the these things. JW are christian and there is a lot of things they disagree with with "christondom" christianity but I don't doubt they are christians because they too believe in the sacraments of christ no matter how much they and others want to deny it.

Christians believe in the sacraments of christ. They have faith in christ and no other person. Most christians will not identify as bahai or any other religion that conflicts with their belief in christ. Christianity is not eclectic.



No one is rejecting his return. It's not there. He was already here in the OT. Came as the word/message of god in the NT. Left to the father and came back in spirit to reassure his disciples of his return. Left to the father and everyone is waiting for judgement day.

This is christian belief. As a bahai, without believing in christ formal second upcoming return, either you're a blend of bahai and christian which is weird since christianity doesn't accept such a thing or you are not christian at all.



Bahaullah, just by location differences alone, has no place in Christianity. That's like calling Christians and Jews liars really.



That is in new testament scripture, Christ is the only way. Can't get around it if you say you're christian.



A lot of people have compassion, love, and so forth because they want to keep their traditions. It defines who they are as people. To take that away as if traditions divides them (when they don't see it that way) is awful.

I know you believe pepsi and coke are both sodas so they are one regardless the taste. The fact is they are not one because of the taste. Being both sodas does not make one the other. Being one humanity doesn't mean we share the same essence. We are all different at the core and at expressions. Can't separate the two. You are tearing people a part.

You are tearing me apart when you divine my expression (say traditions) with my spirituality (my passion). That division creates wars.



Religion is just traditions and practices that reflect and are embedded in beliefs of a given culture, people, and language.

The purpose of your faith is to unite in love. Others if you don't have christ there is no love. So, there is no love for me, if you're relating all religions under one definition. You haven't defined love so how is mine the same as yours? I don't know your love just you say you have it and want it for all people but haven't describe what it actually is that everyone can agree with you on.



That's your belief, though. If you claim christianity is part of your belief, you have to go by christian rules not your interpretation of them.



Now, this, you have to square away with the Jews if they want to contribute because to me it sounds completely impossible. It's not even open for opinion in this case, just plain out wrong.

This isn't christianity.



My point: outward/inward go together. That's your belief. You and a lot of new agers and universalists are the only ones who believe this. Most people get how traditions (regardless if they call it that) shape religion. JW can swear up and down they don't have traditions but if that's the case, how does their religion uphold for so many years without something written down and ways of doing X that pass from one generation to the next.



Nope. Name my god.



I don't know how to comment. I really dont.




Sounds like how christ presents himself if not the same.



This is Bahai belief. If you are christian, you are totally conflicting with your own faith. Totally.





Ima show you some of my sketches in a minute.



Yes. With Bahai, it's not like when I talk with Christians. I can see they feel they are right but then I also see they separate themselves from others. So in that respect, they have their own faith and I have mine. So if I talk with a nice christian, we understand we don't have the same truth because they don't have my truth, and I don't have christ.

Bahai is totally different especially when you said Bahaullah is god and Moses talked with him. That floored me.



Thank you. I don't think I'd understand Bahai now that you mentioned Moses and Bahaullah.





Well, it's almost easter. People come in tradition to celebrate Christ's resurrection. They did this for years and I find it odd to take this tradition away to bring about the new. But then, that's me. I don't have formal tradition but I value people who want to keep the old.

Just doesn't sit right to take people's traditions away and even more so tell christians and jews moses talked with a guy when Bahaullah identifies himself as Bahaullah and the god of jews and christians is I AM.

Love, compassion, and unity does not mean taking away someone's spirituality. That's horrible.

No one going to 'take' people's traditions away from them.

I discontinued worshipping statues of Mary, Christ and Joseph and stopped partaking in things like confession and communion because I found them to be against the teachings of Christ Himself and saw no need to continue observing practices set up by th clergy that God Himself never set up.

I discontinued them because I personally found them to be irr concilable with the Gospels but others may do as they please as that is their right.

I stopped observing these traditions voluntarily just as others may wish to continue voluntarily. No one is wrong here. The choice is the individual's to make.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The only thing I severely disagree with through all my years of practice, experience, and study in protestant and catholic denominations is Bahaullah from a christian perspective (which is the one that counts) has no place in Christianity other than being like there rest of the people, gentiles. The apostles went to different lands to convert people to christianity. I have to read Acts again. I read the NT before and no hint of a manefestation of god other than christ. Moses was considered a prophet just as all the other prophets in the bible. Christ was considered a High prophet. No other person held that tile but the Christ.


Being a Christian does not mean you accept the these things. JW are christian and there is a lot of things they disagree with with "christondom" christianity but I don't doubt they are christians because they too believe in the sacraments of christ no matter how much they and others want to deny it.

Christians believe in the sacraments of christ. They have faith in christ and no other person. Most christians will not identify as bahai or any other religion that conflicts with their belief in christ. Christianity is not eclectic.



No one is rejecting his return. It's not there. He was already here in the OT. Came as the word/message of god in the NT. Left to the father and came back in spirit to reassure his disciples of his return. Left to the father and everyone is waiting for judgement day.

This is christian belief. As a bahai, without believing in christ formal second upcoming return, either you're a blend of bahai and christian which is weird since christianity doesn't accept such a thing or you are not christian at all.



Bahaullah, just by location differences alone, has no place in Christianity. That's like calling Christians and Jews liars really.



That is in new testament scripture, Christ is the only way. Can't get around it if you say you're christian.



A lot of people have compassion, love, and so forth because they want to keep their traditions. It defines who they are as people. To take that away as if traditions divides them (when they don't see it that way) is awful.

I know you believe pepsi and coke are both sodas so they are one regardless the taste. The fact is they are not one because of the taste. Being both sodas does not make one the other. Being one humanity doesn't mean we share the same essence. We are all different at the core and at expressions. Can't separate the two. You are tearing people a part.

You are tearing me apart when you divine my expression (say traditions) with my spirituality (my passion). That division creates wars.



Religion is just traditions and practices that reflect and are embedded in beliefs of a given culture, people, and language.

The purpose of your faith is to unite in love. Others if you don't have christ there is no love. So, there is no love for me, if you're relating all religions under one definition. You haven't defined love so how is mine the same as yours? I don't know your love just you say you have it and want it for all people but haven't describe what it actually is that everyone can agree with you on.



That's your belief, though. If you claim christianity is part of your belief, you have to go by christian rules not your interpretation of them.



Now, this, you have to square away with the Jews if they want to contribute because to me it sounds completely impossible. It's not even open for opinion in this case, just plain out wrong.

This isn't christianity.



My point: outward/inward go together. That's your belief. You and a lot of new agers and universalists are the only ones who believe this. Most people get how traditions (regardless if they call it that) shape religion. JW can swear up and down they don't have traditions but if that's the case, how does their religion uphold for so many years without something written down and ways of doing X that pass from one generation to the next.



Nope. Name my god.



I don't know how to comment. I really dont.




Sounds like how christ presents himself if not the same.



This is Bahai belief. If you are christian, you are totally conflicting with your own faith. Totally.





Ima show you some of my sketches in a minute.



Yes. With Bahai, it's not like when I talk with Christians. I can see they feel they are right but then I also see they separate themselves from others. So in that respect, they have their own faith and I have mine. So if I talk with a nice christian, we understand we don't have the same truth because they don't have my truth, and I don't have christ.

Bahai is totally different especially when you said Bahaullah is god and Moses talked with him. That floored me.



Thank you. I don't think I'd understand Bahai now that you mentioned Moses and Bahaullah.





Well, it's almost easter. People come in tradition to celebrate Christ's resurrection. They did this for years and I find it odd to take this tradition away to bring about the new. But then, that's me. I don't have formal tradition but I value people who want to keep the old.

Just doesn't sit right to take people's traditions away and even more so tell christians and jews moses talked with a guy when Bahaullah identifies himself as Bahaullah and the god of jews and christians is I AM.

Love, compassion, and unity does not mean taking away someone's spirituality. That's horrible.

By location Baha'u'llah has no place in Christianity?

Jeremiah 49:38

I will set my throne in Elam

Elam is Iran
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I discontinued worshipping statues of Mary, Christ and Joseph and stopped partaking in things like confession and communion because I found them to be against the teachings of Christ Himself and saw no need to continue observing practices set up by th clergy that God Himself never set up.

Just one thing and I'll get back to reading.

Did you actually pray to statues?
Confess to a priest?
Literally consume jesus christ?

That's odd. No Catholic I know does these things.

They pray to Christ (Christian Prayer)
They confess to god (1441)
They commune at one lord's supper consuming consecrated bread and wine

1331 Holy Communion, because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.151 We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta)152 - the first meaning of the phrase "communion of saints" in the Apostles' Creed - the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,153 viaticum. . . .

Why would you pray to a statue?

@loverofhumanity I want to back track a bit and tackle this. It's interesting.
 
Last edited:

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If a person allows someone to take away their spirituality then they are to blame no one else.

One should value their spirituality so much that no one can usurp it.

He would come with a 'new name' so they should be ready to accept new things and not cling to old traditions which they have been told will all be renewed "all things will be made new" (Revelation)​

"to accept new things and not cling to old traditions" is tearing someone's spirituality. That's awful.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Why would you pray to a statue?

Common fallacy for Hinduism as well, from non-Hindus. A simple analogy explains it. When you're talking on the telephone, are you talking to the phone itself (which would be rather stupid, no?) or are you talking to the person in the connection on the other end? So a person unwilling to use statues as a method might as well never carry a cell phone either.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
If a person allows someone to take away their spirituality then they are to blame no one else.

One should value their spirituality so much that no one can usurp it.
If I became a Bahai, it would take away my spirituality. That's what conversions often do. So this means you can stop promoting Bahai? Great!
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
The behaviour of tolerance is definitely improved from the belief that all souls are but an extension of God. So when we are associating with people, it is also God we're associating with. No religious person coule be intolerant of God. Yes, while they are under the triple bondage of anava, karma, and maya, some days that is harder to see, for those of us also still suffering from that. But the enlightened being is truly tolerant of all.

It is harder some days to be detached from self than others. It's easy to read books but practicing is a whole lot different and requires much more effort.

It requires a lot of self discipline to take focus away from the self and onto the godly in others.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
If I became a Bahai, it would take away my spirituality. That's what conversions often do. So this means you can stop promoting Bahai? Great!

Then it's not for you and you should avoid my posts or we can talk about Hinduism or something else without referring to Bahá'í.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Christ said He came to fulfill the laws of Moses not to destroy but the Jews still crucified Him.
The same with Baha'u'llah. He comes to fulfill and of course like Christ was accused so is He being accused but He will be vindicated in time as He is the Promised One and people will eventually awaken to that just like they awakened to the truth of Jesus.

Yes. Nichiren Shonin said the same thing that he came as a prophet and bodhisattva of the earth with whom The Buddha predicted he will come to bring a new way to follow the Dharma by focusing on the Dharma itself not the person who gave it.

A lot of stories mirror each other. It doesn't mean they are related at its core.

None of the religions or their Holy Scriptures would have been revealed if it were not for the eventual coming of the Promised One. Even science has hailed the coming of Baha'u'llah as His Mission is to unite humanity so there has been unprecedented advances in world travel and world communication technologies to support His calls and teachings for world unity. These are not the empty words of a Prisoner but Words from God. But Baha'u'llah is not the essence of God but the Voice of God and has full authority to speak on His behalf.

Only Christ speaks for god
Only Muhammad speaks for god

These people did not only teach for their own time but for the future for followers later on to know god just as they do. Bahaullah may have the same mission but Muhammad and Christ don't mix with each other. Their sources are completely different with god giving them completely separate practices. To join the two as Bahaullah is doing is really disrespecting these two religions because one believes in christ/god and the other does not.

Do you understand from their point of view? without the interpretation of Bahaullah?
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
He would come with a 'new name' so they should be ready to accept new things and not cling to old traditions which they have been told will all be renewed "all things will be made new" (Revelation)​

"to accept new things and not cling to old traditions" is tearing someone's spirituality. That's awful.

Then the Bible is guilty of doing this not me as it's all in the Book of Revelation. Here are the verses. Go see for yourself. This is where I take the information from. Not my words the Word of Hod.

New Name Rev 2:17, Rev 3:12

All things will be made new, Rev 21:5
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Then the Bible is guilty of doing this not me as it's all in the Book of Revelation. Here are the verses. Go see for yourself. This is where I take the information from. Not my words the Word of Hod.

New Name Rev 2:17, Rev 3:12

All things will be made new, Rev 21:5

This is all in Christ and the father. Bahaullah has nothing to do with this.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Common fallacy for Hinduism as well, from non-Hindus. A simple analogy explains it. When you're talking on the telephone, are you talking to the phone itself (which would be rather stupid, no?) or are you talking to the person in the connection on the other end? So a person unwilling to use statues as a method might as well never carry a cell phone either.

Wow. Nice analogy. I'd have to take that one up from you.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Yes. Nichiren Shonin said the same thing that he came as a prophet and bodhisattva of the earth with whom The Buddha predicted he will come to bring a new way to follow the Dharma by focusing on the Dharma itself not the person who gave it.

A lot of stories mirror each other. It doesn't mean they are related at its core.



Only Christ speaks for god
Only Muhammad speaks for god

These people did not only teach for their own time but for the future for followers later on to know god just as they do. Bahaullah may have the same mission but Muhammad and Christ don't mix with each other. Their sources are completely different with god giving them completely separate practices. To join the two as Bahaullah is doing is really disrespecting these two religions because one believes in christ/god and the other does not.

Do you understand from their point of view? without the interpretation of Bahaullah?

Yes I understand clearly their point of view. I used to be a Catholic and in Iran they make it clear they prefer their traditions do we know that and respect that. The thing is in places like Iran we are not allowed freedom of belief, a fundamental human right.

We can't go anywhere else as we were born in Iran so we have to be denied all freedoms just for having a different viewpoint?

That's way extreme. Just live and let live.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yes I understand clearly their point of view. I used to be a Catholic and in Iran they make it clear they prefer their traditions do we know that and respect that. The thing is in places like Iran we are not allowed freedom of belief, a fundamental human right.

We can't go anywhere else as we were born in Iran so we have to be denied all freedoms just for having a different viewpoint?

That's way extreme. Just live and let live.

Just on RF no where else.
 
Top